So, Please Make It SIMPLE For Me: Will We Get A Public Option?

[Dinger]

Or will the pukes/blue dogs win AGAIN?

[bleever]

1. Yes. nt

[Autumn]

2. I doubt it n/t

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. I think we will.

It probably won't be as broad as we would like, but it's a foot in the door.

[Peacetrain]

4. Yes

[Honeycombe8]

5. I don't know. Sounds like they're still negotiating with the Blue Dogs. nt

[Becky72]

6. None of us knows

Because it depends on whether the votes in favor of the public option will be sufficient.
I guess we'll have to wait and see.

[rwheeler31]

7. We will and sooner rather than later.

[fadedrose]

8. Yes, definitely Yes

He said that only about 5% of the population would need it - those who could not afford private insurance...but it WILL be there...everyone will be insured, one way or another.

[sandnsea]

9. Are we going to fight for it? n/t

[Honeycombe8]

26. Fired up! Ready to go! You betcha! nt

[graywarrior]

10. Yes.

[Enrique]

11. no, but...

but we can still win without it, if Obama is right that there are alternatives that can achieve the basic principles.

[Divine Discontent]

12. honestly none of us knows, I wanna believe we will. but it could fall - the ONLY thing I can

suggest - is that you write or call your senators and tell them that's what you want.

Also, let [e-mail] know also.

[DJ13]

13. Obama seems to think his "insurance marketplace" would be as good

Every time he talks about a public option he refers to his idea of a government ran marketplace for PRIVATE insurance, as if that would be a substitute that could also foster competition like a real public option could.

Im thinking that will be his push instead of the public option.

[alcibiades_mystery]

21. The public OPTION is by definition an option in a marketplace

It remains an option in the insurance exchange in Obama's plan. I'm not sure why that's so hard to understand. Even under the most radical versions, the public "option" exists in a marketplace of private insurers. Hell, even the government run systems in Europe are supplemented with private insurance.

[DJ13]

22. I agree, but thats not how Obama thinks of that marketplace

Even in his speech tonight when he mentioned his marketplace early on he specified private insurance.

[high density]

24. The health insurance exchange includes both private insurance offerings plus the public option

He's said it many times.

[DJ13]

27. Or, private only with mandates

Mandates are the key.

If you see that Congress is pushing for them in the final version dont expect a public option.

[high density]

28. President says he wants public option in the health insurance exchange.

And the mandates are there because, as he said, we're already paying for these people with hidden costs.

[alcibiades_mystery]

29. That's not at all what he said

He spent a good deal of time explaining that there were obvious monopolies, and that the public option corrects this problem, like public universities. The exchange obviously includes private insurance. I'm having difficulty understanding what you DON'T understand. The exchange is a method for purchasing insurance that includes private carriers and the public carrier. Why is that difficult?

[alcibiades_mystery]

30. Yes, but if you listened to the whole speech, he specified the public option

as improving the exchange market and pushing private insurers to provide better and cheaper coverage.

[grantcart]

14. Now we get to fight for it

[bleever]

17. And the battlefield is now arranged well in our favor.

Despite Axelrod doing an after-interview with Rachel and using the words "hegemony" and "hustings". :)

[backscatter712]

15. Nothing's certain, but the odds are pretty good.

Note that tonight, Obama didn't really have to make any threats or draw lines in the sand for the public option, because the Progressive and Black caucuses in the House have already done that.

I have a good feeling, and this speech kicked ass!

[madfloridian]

16. Maybe in 4 years.

.

[Dinger]

19. Oh Great

:mad:

[madfloridian]

23. Here is what I heard and what Reuters has.

"DOES THE PLAN CREATE A PUBLIC OPTION?

It proposes a not-for-profit government-run healthcare insurance program to be part of new "insurance exchange" and compete with private insurers.

The public option -- which has been strongly resisted by insurance companies -- would be available only to those without insurance. Obama said less than 5 percent of Americans would sign up for it, based on Congressional Budget Office estimates.

The public option would not be taxpayer subsidized, and would have to be self-sufficient and rely on premiums it collects.

The insurance exchange, a marketplace where individuals and small businesses would be able to shop for health insurance, would take effect in four years. Obama said customers would benefit because they would bargain with insurers as a large group. The plan would provide need-based tax credits for those who could not afford insurance from the exchange."

http://www.reuters.com/article/americasRegulatoryNews/idUSN0934632320090910

[demosincebirth]

18. After tonight, yes!

[polichick]

20. Well...

"Let me be clear – it would only be an option for those who don’t have insurance."

[jenmito]

25. Yes. Axelrod just now: "He believes in the public option, he thinks it should be in the bill, and

he will fight to put it in the bill..." On Rachel Maddow show.

[bennythecat]

32. Where is the veto?

What does it mean he will "fight to get it in the bill".

He has a power called a veto that he can use to force the issue.

Why isn't he willing to say that he will veto any bill that does not have a public option?

Can someone please answer that?

What has changed with this speech? It will be forgotten in a week.

Talk is cheap in Washington, don't you know?

[jenmito]

47. It's in Loserland.

Like he said-if anyone has a BETTER way to get all the components of the public option, he's open to listen. If Steve Hildebrand was happy with what Obama said, you should be, too.

[bennythecat]

54. Oh.

So when I can't get public health insurance I should knock on Steve Hildebrand's door and have him pay for my treatment?

[Captain Hilts]

31. Yes. But eligibiity is limited. nt

[GreenPartyVoter]

33. The President has said he wants one. Now we have to see if the people on the Hill will

pass a bill with one in it, and if not will the President send it back saying he won't sign it w/out the PO?

[bennythecat]

35. That's the question.

Unfortunately, unless the President says he won't sign it w/o it, I have to assume that means he would sign it without it.
I was disappointed in the speech for this reason.
What's the use of being President if you're not willing to wield the powers you have.

A veto threat means business.
All the President said was he wants to "get it done".
Getting it done without the PO is not getting it done. It's passing the buck.

[Aramchek]

34. it will happen

[depakid]

36. Only if you've been denied any health coverage, apparently

Although who can say? It wasn't all that clear from the speech- though it looks as though it looks as though Mat Taibbi really did call the shot:

Under the bill - known as HR 3200 - employers must provide "essential benefits" to workers or face a stiff penalty. "Essential benefits" includes elements often missing in the fly-by-night plans offered by big employers: drug benefits, outpatient care, hospitalization, mental health, the works. If your employer does not offer acceptable coverage, you then have the right to go into one of the state-run insurance "exchanges," where you can select from a number of insurance plans, including the public option.

There's a flip side, though: If your employer offers you acceptable care and you reject it, you are barred from buying insurance in the insurance "exchange." In other words, you must take the insurance offered to you at work. And that might have made sense if, as decreed in the House version, employers actually had to offer good care. But in the Senate version passed by the HELP committee, there is no real requirement for employers to provide any kind of minimal level of care. On the contrary, employers who currently offer sub-par coverage will have their shitty plans protected by a grandfather clause. Which means ...

"If you have coverage you like, you can keep it," says Sen. Sanders. "But if you have coverage you don't like, you gotta keep it."

This grandfather clause has potentially wide-ranging consequences. One of the biggest health care problems we have in this country is the technique used by large employers - Walmart is the most notorious example - of offering dogshit, bare-bones health insurance that forces employees to take on steep co-pays and other massive charges. Low-wage workers currently offered these plans often reject them and join Medicaid, effectively shifting the health care burden for Walmart employees on to the taxpayer. If the HELP committee's grandfather clause survives to the final bill, those workers who did the sensible thing in rejecting Walmart's crap employer plan and taking the comparatively awesome insurance offered via Medicaid will now be rebuffed by the state and forced to take the dogshit Walmart offering.

This works out well for the states, who will get to purge all those Walmart workers from their Medicaid rolls. It also works great for Walmart, since any new competitors who appear on the horizon will be forced to offer genuine and more expensive health insurance - giving Walmart a clear competitive advantage. This little "glitch" is the essence of the health care reform effort: It changes things in a way that works for everyone except actual sick people.

Veteran legislators speak of this horrific loophole as if it were an accident - something that just sort of happened, while no one was looking. Sen. Ron Wyden of Oregon was looking at an early version of the bill several months ago, when he suddenly realized that it was going to leave people stuck with their employer insurance. "I woke up one morning and was like, 'Whoa, people aren't going to have choices,'" he recalls.

[strategery blunder]

37. Then those "shocked" legislators

had better STRIKE THAT PUBLIC OPTION ELIGIBILITY RESTRICTION FROM THE DAMNED BILL.

EVERYONE should be eligible for the public option--otherwise private insurers get to continue to rape Americans by denying claims (note how all the bruhaha is about denying coverage, but nothing gets said about denying individual claims) and fix the marketplace with their damned collusion that is actually fucking legalized under an insurance-only exemption to antitrust law.

[depakid]

38. " EVERYONE should be eligible for the public option" - agreed but that's not what the President said

and that's not what's currently on the table.

[strategery blunder]

39. Wasn't referring to the President

Was referring to Senator Wyden, who, if I may take the liberty of paraphrasing, reacted like, "OMG! I woke up one day and found this horrendous poison pill in the bill that will leave millions stuck in absolute shit!"

Then Wyden needs to get over all his shock and DO HIS JOB AS A SENATOR to get the provision that forbids people from switching from private to public removed from the bill. Or at least, at MINIMUM, define an "insurance policy" to provide a minimum standard of benefits so that millions of Americans don't get stuck with the worthless $5k deductible/$10k cap on claims paid "insurance" offered by lowlife scum employers such as Mal-Wart.

(edit: dropped a word cuz I was typing too fast)

[Arrowhead2k1]

40. Joe Wilson put Rethuglican intent and credibility into the shitter.

There's no excuse to not bypass these asshats and pass a bill that works. Leave the Republicans on the wrong side of history again.

[and-justice-for-all]

41. I believe we will see it..nt

[quaker bill]

42. I think so

but you never know until the votes are counted.

[PretzelWarrior]

43. in other words...."durr.....I can't handle nuance. please spoon feed me."

also, I love "So You Think You Can Dance" and Lucky magazine.

[OneGrassRoot]

44. I believe so.

But in the interim between watching the speech last night and reading and viewing various "news" shows this morning, I swear people watched a different speech than I did.

I was VERY impressed.

Wow. Obama can't catch a break anywhere. Guess that's the nature of the 24/7 news bullshit infotainment cycle.

[RBInMaine]

45. YES ! There WILL be a publicly sponsred choice in some form. He was VERY clear on that point.

[Jakes Progress]

48. The term "some form" in not "very" clear. nt

[RBInMaine]

46. Yes, in some form, but yes.

[Doctor_J]

49. Only if you have no other choice

It sounds like the PO will be open only to those who can't get private insurance. For example, if you have insurance through your job, and it's expensive and crummy, you won't be eligible for the PO. So it will cover only the very sick, and thus probably be doomed to fail because of costs. The only way the PO will work is if everyone is in it.

[TheKentuckian]

50. Sure.

[xchrom]

51. there might be one -- but it will be narrow.

this whole bill is going to be extremely cumbersome when they're done with it.

and in that is it's fatal flaw.

[Romulox]

52. It will be PINO--Public In Name Only. Most people will not be allowed to enroll.

"Let me be clear. It would only be an option for those who don't have insurance."

[DevonRex]

53. Yes. nt