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Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 02:12 PM
Original message
The Weakest Link
Edited on Thu Sep-10-09 02:17 PM by FrenchieCat
The President's job is to communicate his vision to all of the American people and then do what he can to make it happen.
What this President is not, is the overseer of a plantation. Some will say that this is the way that George Bush worked (how did you like that?). Part of the reason that Bush was forced to steal 2 elections is because he could have never won them outright. But yet he was still there for 8 years running rough shots over every single one of us. Was that because he was a strong and principled man? Or was it because he is a bankrupt human being who didn't give a shit about America and Americans and had a whole bunch of power on his side? (see SCOTUS)

You see, the harsh reality is that the rules are different for Democrats than they are for Republicans. That's just a fact that we have to work with. We do not control the conversation, the media does....and they get their talking points from the GOP, not from any of us. When we assail this President on a daily basis, we on our side are simply doing the job that gives the media that much less to do.

Why do you think the President had to call a Joint Session? Because although his microphone is big, the media's is bigger. That's why we don't really get to see any of the Cabinet members making any speeches or propose their programs. It is why when the President does town-halls, we don't get to hear the speakers before him; the average men and women who agree with his views and have a story to tell. It is why we don't really get to hear about any of the programs that the President has put into play in any details. It is why his comments about a professor being arrested in his home become the topic of conversation from our news agencies for like....two weeks!

As the temperature is taken of last night speech; a speech that has been said by many to be the one that could make or break health care reform and Barack Obama's presidency, those of us who yell the loudest now about how the speech really isn't getting the job done, are assisting in the nailing down of the coffin of not only Health Care reform, but in reference to other progressive programs in the wings.

I understand that quite a few of us have problems with some of this President's agenda,
and wished he was just like us; a true left liberal.....but he just isn't; he's a true pragmatist, and he has said so many times. Pragmatists are those who believe in getting things done, but take into consideration the current circumstances as they are (and understanding that changing the circumstances will be a lengthy slow endeavor all on its own), rather than trying to imagine that if things were different, then it would all work out much better.

It is an easy exercise to imagine a media that would actually report our side fairly; an opposition that would actually just shut the fuck up; and enough well informed rational Americans in every state that would see things exactly as we see them....but that is not how things are.

The grown ups here knew a long time ago that we weren't going to get everything we wanted,
because if it was that easy, there would have been no impeachment of Bill Clinton, no stolen elections, no Iraq War, no 90% approval for a leader who allowed us to be attacked, no financial meltdown, and Health Care reform would have been done in 1993. These are the folks who understand this and also understand clearly that incremental progress is what we can work toward because that is real, not imagined. You see, the bottom-line is not what we believe, but what we can realistically achieve....and largely due to the current corporate media, as well as the corporate interests that will not be taken down in one fell swoop, no matter what...there is no other answer. No, we cannot cuss our way to a progressive state; this President cannot trash talk our way into reform; there will be no one major figure that will say what will be, and then it just happens; so why would folks now believe that it is a possibility? It just ain't.

Oftentimes I think that perhaps if more of us actually backed this President a bit more by putting real pressure on not just our Democratic congress-folks, but the Republican ones as well, as opposed to keeping busy finding fault in everything this President says and does..... and allowing the media to play us against this President (while the Right does the same thing from their side) perhaps then, we could actually help Health Care reform get done, and we could move on to other reforms, that yes....no matter what you say, do make a difference.

It is one thing to criticize this President's policy, it is quite another to expect him to do it all exactly the way that we'd want it, while we just sit there as critics.

So Many of us ain't really making shit happen with our cynical negative outlook of this administration....not even the bare minimum. In fact, We, in our own way have made this President weaker than he could be otherwise, because many of us are the weakest link. We know what we want, we just don't truly understand the method, based on where we are, of how to get us there based on how things are.


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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
1. Where the problem lies, and also one of the reasons I don't hang
Edited on Thu Sep-10-09 02:15 PM by ScreamingMeemie
out on around here much anymore (former MrsGrumpy) is because of your statement:"It is one thing to criticize this President's policy, it is quite another to expect him to do it all exactly the way that we'd want it, while we just sit there as critics."

Who decides what is a criticism and what is not? When one cannot be in doubt of one's President is when Democracy fails. I see many (and I am not on this one) who are asking questions getting shouted down and unrec'd by the party line prancers here.

Take care.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Criticism of some things is quite justified.....but criticism of just about everything
is some dumbass shit.
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Who decides Frenchie? You?
There's the problem.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Who decides what?
What this President should do versus what this President is doing?

I'm one who believes that it is all a mixed bag, and I keep separate what I want exactly to happen,
versus what is actually happening. I call it context.

Those who rail against the insurance companies must also comprehend and admit that there is no taste out there large enough to get rid of them like yesterday. So to constantly talk about how that is what needs to happen (and nothing short of this will do), without acknowledging that there is no force strong enough to get that done is a fools' argument, especially when it is made by the same folks day in, day out.

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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Who decides what is a criticism and what is not allowable.
You are being deliberately obtuse after posting an obvious call out of those who don't fall down and kiss the feet of our government. Please expound on what qualifies as okay to you and what does not. I wish to make a note of it I guess. :shrug:
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. You make my point. For you the right to criticize is paramount.....
above all else (in this conversation anyways).
It ain't about actually getting things done,
but about who will judge what you say.

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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Go back and read my first response to you. You are blinded by
Edited on Thu Sep-10-09 02:39 PM by ScreamingMeemie
devotion. I have no problem with at least getting a start on healthcare. I have a problem with those who would wish for no debate, Frenchie. Please attempt to make your own points in the future. You still haven't answered my question.

In here, a person's right to think for themselves has become "unfair criticism" to those who only care about the D.

My right to think for myself is paramount.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. A forum is a place to share opinion.....
My opinion is that what one says sometimes can have multiple consequences....
There may be a good, healthy and justified purpose, but at the same time,
the same may also end up being not so good in a difference sense, in particular
when done often and in unison.

I understand why some might choose not to care for some of the President's actions,
I just don't understand why that would mean that all he does needs to be criticized
severely...... day in, day out. It may help someone feel righteous, but in context,
it might not do much else that would be termed constructive in the long run.

Guess its a question of balance.
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #8
21. It's not. I have seen reasonable arguments shot down and still
you haven't answered the question. Again, I have no real problem with a step in the right direction with regard to health care.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Debating an issue is not the same as those who simply personally smear and also moan and groan
Edited on Thu Sep-10-09 09:22 PM by FrenchieCat
constantly. Saying things like "he's a corporatist", "He bailing out insurance companies", "He's just like Bush" isn't debate, it's an indictment! Again, I have no real problems with those who feel Obama should do what they think, but after a point, them saying it becomes less helpful than some might want to think. I support calling, writing to the ones who need to hear, as well as writing ops expressing one's point of view......but there are those who get stuck and don't seem to ever stop saying how terrible this President, all of the time. It's starts to wear on those of us who are pragmatists....cause we understand the process better, it would seem.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #5
15. It's not a matter of allowable. It's a matter of asking you to cool it because
it's not helping. It's not doing any good and its weakening a politician who is basically on our side of the center, going in our direction. Or at least much closer to what we want than the Republicans are.

The Republicans do it and that's why they got their way for so long, when they were not even or barely a majority.

We can think for ourselves and still support things that aren't perfect but closer to what we might want.

People seem to just pride themselves on criticizing for that sake alone. Like it's some sort of upper level of the intellect. We are not blindly following, only realizing that to support the Democratic President makes him stronger and allows for the possibility we'll get closer to what we want.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Some would simply want to hold his feet to the fire till he can no longer walk.....
then they want to yell at him to find out why he can't get to where they are ordering him to go.
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. Cool what?
I don't have a problem with his speech last night or the current issue on the table. My problem is that apparently we have become that which we used to detest. A group that can no longer question the D.
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tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-11-09 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #3
26. Why, yes. You hadn't noticed.....? ;-> nt
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
19. "Prancers"
Precisely
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branders seine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
9. let's not make the imperfect the enemy of the not so good
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. More like, let's not make the "imperfect to some liberals" the Twin of the "totally fucked up"!
cause the two are simply not even close to being the same.
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Raine1967 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
10. K&R Thank you Frenchie!
I consider myself a leftie-- but I have room in my world for a pragmatic president. This actually is what we need in our country right now. He is trying to bring the country back together.


Thank you Frenchie.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. You are welcome.....
and the truth is that as long as we want to believe that he is something other than a pragmatist,
we will not be satisfied with just about anything he does.

Reminds me of those who sit in the passenger seat and think that they are driving....and become afraid of the driver because he/she is not driving in the way that the passenger might. A lot of wasted energy and consternation for absolutely not much....cause at the end of the ride, you still arrive at your destination.

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johnaries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
11. A friend of mine once commented about a mutual acquaintance
"If the world were perfect, she'd bitch because she didn't have anything to bitch about." I think that describes many here.

You're absolutely right, Frenchie. High Idealism is a great thing to have, but Pragmatism is what gets things accomplished. I know some here will (and have) accuse me of being a DLC'er, but truth is that the DLC is obstructing progress. By their negativism, these purists are being just as obstructionist as the DLC, Blue Dogs, and Republicans.

As a Progressive, I would like to see some actual PROGRESS. And that requires pragmatism.

KNR.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Progressive = Progress.......
and considering the very real circumstances and the restrictive environment in which we operate,
pragmatic progress in getting things done is really the only avenue. Everything else is just talk,
if you ask me. :)
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johnaries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Exactly, it's just talk. It would be nice if everyone agreed on
a single-payer option. It would also be nice if no one got sick in the first place. One can sit around and say "wouldn't it be nice" and "this is what we need" all day long. But it doesn't actually accomplish anything. If you want to get something done, you have to face the real world.

"You can't always get what you want.
But if you try sometimes, you just might find
You get what you need."
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
16. I'm sort of pragmatic myself
I get Obama, I really understand where he's coming from. I tend to agree with him - I think in a similar way. I resent these idiots calling us kool aid drinkers or blind followers. I just agree with him, is all.

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HopeOverFear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
20. Right on, French
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msallied Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
23. Very much agreed.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-11-09 02:18 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. Thanks......
:hi:
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GivePeaceAchance Donating Member (950 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-11-09 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
27. Frenchie always making it happen goood for you. +1
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