Enough with the "Kerry should" threads!

[Bleacher Creature]

Kerry should listen to the group of talented and experienced advisors he's got on his team. And if you don't like the people he's got on staff, I can guarantee you that he's not spending his time trolling discussion boards.

WE should go out, register voters, campaign, make phone calls, canvas like crazy, and GOTV. But all of this armchair quarterbacking is giving me a headache!

[Leilani]

1. Take 2 aspirin & call us in the morning.

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. why because he makes the point that needs making

[catbert836]

3. So is it with me.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

4. I find it to be pretty humorous myself. If those folks were as good....

...as they think they are, they would be running for office.

[oasis]

5. For all we know, Nader is the author of many of those threads. His

plan for Iraq is often parroted in them. Nader intends to pick off some of Kerry's soft supporters.

[21winner]

10. Won't work here.

Nader is only running so he can collect speech fees and maybe write another book.( we heard that over and over again).

[mourningdove92]

6. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you.

I could not agree more. I have gotten to the point where I don't even read them anymore.

[n2mark]

7. Great

It is quite easy to be a Monday morning quarterback. If there are suggestions-- go to Kerry's site or tell the people at the campaign office.

As long as we are hearing Kerry should do this, Kerry should do that is only making Kerry look weak and a dimwit. Or if there are those on DU who do give advise, there should be a special place for advice.

That is what these stupid freepers want to hear.

Just a thought, these freepers probably take their polls by entering the forums. I wouldn't put it past them.

By the way, I am listening to Guy James on the internet. He is great.

Maybe I am getting the wrong impression of this thread, not trying to get rid of the right to speak freely, but this is one time we need to be careful.

I want Shrub out and the rest of his mob... that is the bottom line.

It is easy to look from the outside looking in...

[BillZBubb]

8. BULLSHIT!

This is the same old corporatist, elitist bullshit: You peons stop complaining, leave it to the experts.

These so-called experts don't even agree with each other. The sad thing is that we have seen this same script before. The Repugs are successfully re-running the Dukakis campaign.

Who is in a better position to offer advice to a campaign than the thousands of activists on the ground who mingle among the general population and get daily feedback--or a group of cloistered advisors who are too busy to actually deal with actual voters????

Finally, if the Kerry campaign doesn't see and recognize the frustrations among their loyalists, that's their loss. The are wasting a valuable resource. And I reserve the right to complain about the campaign anytime I feel like it. If you don't like it, TFB.

[USA_1]

11. yours is a very wise post and the Kerry should read it .....

We all saw how Bush took an 11 point poll lead during the RNC and during the SBV smear campaign. As this took place, Kerry and his followers stood by and refused to answer forcefully. The public saw this as weakness and sided with the Resuckplicans.

Once Kerry answered back with authority, the poll numbers were evened.

Whether the DNC or anyone else likes it or not, in the wicked world of politics, you must NEVER show weakness! You must always show strength. Whenever stupid charges are made, you fight back, you trample on your opponents until they quit. And when scandalous issues appear that can weaken your opponents, you use them with all the force necessary to further weaken them.

This tactic has worked for GOP for the past 24 years since Reagan took the White House. And it continues to work for the Pukes.

Unfortunately, the DNC refuses to learn and refuses to adopt this campaign of public toughness. For some reason, it continues to believe that sissyness is the ideal way to win campaigns. But has it worked? Is the DNC the majority party in the Congress? in the Supreme Court? the state legislatures? the White House? No, of course not.

Sissyness simply will not work. You must show toughness if you want to win the White House and to save this great nation from the peril that the Bushshitters will impose on it and the world.

I have mentioned this before on this forum. And while a few of you have voiced agreement, it is only too evident that the DNC is too sissy, too stuck in a let's-lose-at-all-costs mindset to change its ways. I remain convinced that the DNC does not want to win this election.

Big Ed Schultz has said the same thing on his radio show and many of his listeners have agreed.

Will the DNC change its ways before it is too late or will it continue to stick with it sissyness campaign??? I'm betting that it will be the latter.

[jonnyblitz]

14. right on!

:thumbsup: It gets annoying when people try to shut up discussion on a discussion board.

[Placebo]

19. Preach On, Brotha!

:yourock:

[mbali]

44. The so-called experts in DU don't agree with each other either . . .

So, which one of us anonymous posters - most of whom have absolutely no real political experience and whom Kerry doesn't even know - is Kerry supposed to listen to?

[necso]

9. Some might even think

that all that sort of stuff makes us look weak, confused and divided.

Or that even in a National crisis, people can't enough of themselves.

In a fight, one shows the enemy only your spears and shields... and the valor in your hearts. (...And certainly not your backs -- or the disorder in your ranks!)

But not all our enemies fight us in the open.

[demothinker]

15. What?

Shut up and don't question your leader in a time of crisis? WTF is up with that?! Isn't that what the Bu$h administration said about dissenting voices after 9/11 and during the beginning of the debacle in Iraq?

Screw that. I'm posting what I want, when I want about Kerry's campaign and what I think his strategy should be. Anyone who doesn't like it, either dispute it intelligently or ignore it. And if you don't like it, YOU shut up!

[necso]

18. I am pleased that

you would not let your ego get in the way of your interests... or the national ones.

I find it becoming.

And of course you will.

[demothinker]

47. Speaking of becoming...

Sarcasm is always attractive as well. :-)

I apologize for my harsh response - the freedom to speak out is one of my hot-button issues - but while I understand your point, the squelching of people speaking out is ALWAYS a bad idea - I'd have thought that our side of anyone would know that.

It's the way that it's presented that should be the concern, not that it's presented at all. Constructive suggestions, well-expressed concerns, or intellectual discussions about strategy should always be welcomed, to either inform, debate, or comfort. To try to squelch speech "for the common good" is to go down a dangerous road, the one "paved with good intentions".

My urging would be to change the way some of the things are presented - too often, things are not presented constructively or thoughtfully - which I think can cause the harm I believe you're concerned about. But I wouldn't try to prevent it; my aim would be to redirect it or persuade them to express it more effectively.

[baltodemvet]

12. AMEN!

Kerry's on track. If we do our part, we'll win this sumbeach.

[bigtree]

13. I love the concern for our candidate

I wish there was more optimism expressed in these posts. Perhaps the anxiety is too much, but there is a need to project all of the confidence we can muster in order to influence others to support our candidate.

"If all the folks in the United States would do the few simple things they know they ought to do, most of our big problems would take care of themselves."

~ Calvin Coolidge

[LittleClarkie]

23. I went down to campaign HQ with my suggestions

I would suggest doing the same if you want input.

I took a fly I'd been sent from Republicans for Kerry, as well as all the issue papers I'd printed out. They said that although alot of it is copyrighted, that it could be useful as background for letters to the editor and such.

The only "Kerry should" posts that are REALLY getting on my nerves are the Iraq War position rants. He's not changing his position in Iraq from one he believes to one he doesn't believe in, even if it means it's not what people want to hear exactly. He's being honest. I wouldn't want him to suddenly be dishonest.

But aside from that, I'd just like to see people take their ideas and try to give them to the campaign if they can. They can then take the suggestions or not. Alittle more productive.

[cheshire]

16. I agree and I'm sick of all the whining. We are not your wet nurse or

your mom so suck it up and knock it off. Freaking out is so Ridiculous and tends to drag others down which is what I think you want. To bath in pity with company.

[LittleClarkie]

26. An environmentalist came into HQ last Tuesday

And freaked the hell out because she couldn't get a yard sign.

She said the campaign was disorganized and that we were going to lose our shirts in November. She was also upset that Kerry wasn't saying enough about environmental issues.

I was trying to negotiate the data entry monster in front of me, but upon hearing her words got my dander up a bit. I started to answer her when one of the campaign organizers came over and did a masterful job of calming the woman down.

She explained that all was indeed going according to plan, and in specific steps. We are moving out of identifying our undecideds and starting the persuasion phase of the campaign now. The organizer talked with the woman, and I could see the woman start to relax and even smile. The organizer complimented her on her energy thus far in organizing grassroots efforts for the environment and that the campaign could use that energy and skill.

She ended up leaving with a window sign and bumper sticker, and two websites from me for learning about national security, an issue she knew near nothing about, but one people always asked her to explain Kerry's position on.

I'll give her credit for going and doing her freaking face-to-face with those most involved with what she was freaking about.

[Placebo]

17. I am SICK of being called a FREEPER

It pisses me off so much. That word gets thrown around waaaaaaaaaaaay too much on this site.

And If I can't come to this site to bitch about kerry where am I supposed to do it? I can't do it on the other websites I go to to debate politics, because those are all a mix of democrats and republicans. I can't talk about it to people in the real world, because I make a point to say only positive things about kerry and don't wany to give people any reason to doubt him.

So if not here, where?

[cheshire]

20. How about a republican site if you can't stand behind you man.

Who are you for? Could you start a site yourself? I know it's to late now but for the future.

[Placebo]

24. What the hell are you talking about?

"a republican site if you can't stand behind you(r) man"

did you NOT just read what i fucking wrote? i am say nothing but 110% positive great things about kerry apart from this site

i am not a republican

and i hope you're happy that your ignorant pathetic little post where you can't even spell has put me through the fucking roof with anger

you are the perfect example of what i am talking about

[LittleClarkie]

29. I don't like the way dissent is handled around here either

It reminds me too much of McCarthyism. "Are you not with us citizen? Perhaps you are one of 'them. I see that you have not been with us long. Perhaps we shall keep an eye on you for 'deviant' behavior."

Charming, I must say.

I see your point, Nation. Though I get frustrated with the "Kerry should" posts too, I can't think of anywhere else you could come to air your frustrations with Kerry's campaign.

I just wish we had a bit more faith in the guy. And I don't appreciate the "we're going down like a two-dollar whore" threads. If we could just keep from freaking out, I'd be a happy camper.

[cheshire]

37. I was being earnest and If you blame others for your anger I feel sorry

for you. I don't know what you are but you asked what your to do so I gave you ideas. Take em or leave em I don't care but you do need you blood pressure meds for sure. If you don't like it here I think you might be welcome in hell.

[LittleClarkie]

39. What you offered her was not constructive

"How about a republican site if you can't stand behind you man."

It was an offer to go elsewhere because she's not in lockstep.

Reminds me of "Go back to Africa if you don't like it here."

Or "support the war or you're not a "true" American.

Why should she go and create her own site? What's the matter with her being here? Geez louise, people. Can't we all just get along?

Btw, we ARE in hell. So I guess she can stay right where she is, eh? At least until November 3 anyway. Then perhaps we can ALL get out of hell.

[ever_green]

42. what is a freeper?

Is that a stupid question? Sorry if it is, but I've never heard that before.

[oasis]

45. A freeper is the opposite of a DUer in terms of ideolgy and intellect.

They often visit DU for the sole purpose of disrupting intelligent discourse.

www.freerepublic.com

[zulchzulu]

21. Stop your whining and let's start winning!

AAR...

[Mr_Spock]

22. Thanks - and I'm gonna "Hide Thread" this one the same as those.

I am not reading any more stupid "poll flame" threads.

I am not reading any more "Kerry limp dick" threads.

Just me, i have only so much time in the day and you are right, those threads are in NO WAY productive. The time for candidates to troll boards for ideas is LONG SINCE PAST. It's counterproductive to play that game, then complain about the media not focusing on Kerry's message in another thread. Just be as helpful as you can.

[troubleinwinter]

25. No more "Kerry should...."

No more "Why doesn't Edwards..."

No more "Ohmygawd the polls!!"

No more "DU this poll!!"

Yep, I do NOT read em.

[hansolsen]

32. There is a battle on for the soul of the Democratic Party that trancends

this election. The Lieberman / DLC wing of this Party has supported the war in Iraq from day one, and there are plenty of DU bloggers who are certified members of that wing of the Party. In many important ways they constrain what Kerry has been willing to say and do regarding Iraq and broader middle east policy.

Even if Kerry doesn't "hear" what is said in this forum, the members do. And members of this forum who support the war in Iraq need to hear every day, all day that their grand plan for the middle east is a national disgrace and a national nightmare.

I, for one, will do my part to ensure that message is heard.

[oasis]

34. Most of us on the planet don't have the luxury of risking another 4 years

of Bush. So you can just run along and "trancend the election" in the lounge forum.

[Bleacher Creature]

35. A-freakin-men

Well said.

[Mr_Spock]

38. My thoughts exactly, precisely and without any doubt!!

Intellectualizing about the Party at this point with Satan about to destroy the world is something you read about in bad novels.

[louis c]

27. I Remember A Young

volunteer in the McGovern campaign, and George McGovern spoke about this recently on TV, who tried to advise that campaign in 1972.

You see, during that election, McGovern was getting hammered as a coward for the withdrawal plank in his campaign.

This young man constantly brought up that McGovern, a highly decorated WWII Bombardier, should let folks know that he flew over 40 missions into the heart of Berlin during the most dangerous time of that war.

McGovern refused, and the two biggest pieces of shit to run for public office, Nixon and Agnew, until Bush and Cheney took over that mantle, were able to paint this picture and carry 49 states.

Every state except the one from which that young, idealistic young supporter came from.

His name was John Kerry.

You never know where good advice may come from.

[mellowinman]

28. Kerry should

*Have a medical procedure done that will make him even taller. Seven foot five, or more.

*Give his next speech in Swahili. They wouldn't be expecting that.

*Get a day job working in a posh restaurant/bar, possibly as a busboy. It would give him better access to the press.

*Get a really neat tattoo that says "No More Flies" and has a picture of a frog.

*Hire Charles Manson as his main PR dude. Manson would be a big hit with a lot of the Freeper types, and it may swing them once and for all.

*Make a short film about the history of typewriter and computer fonts. He could hide all kinds of subliminal messages in there, and convince the average Joe that he needs to send his money to me.

*Buy my book. Everyone who buys my book has incredible luck, and success, not to mention the fact that they laugh their ass off. People without asses are just happier. That's what Shakespeare said, but they burned that one.

*Spend some time playing marbles with the local children. Nothing makes voters happier than to see Presidential Candidates playing childish games. This is how Bush did so well in 2000.

*Switch his diet to macrobiotic. Junk food and fad diets are so out this year. Why not be the one to set the new trend? He could promote this on Oprah, and be a big hit with the really shallow suburban types.

*Play linebacker for the Patriots. People love the Patriots, especially the guys on defense. Kerry's a New England kind of guy, and he would be the oldest player on any team in the world, except for the Raiders.

[LittleClarkie]

30. You're strange

But don't change.

[Morning Dew]

48. Rotfl

very, very good stuff.

Thanks for the laugh.

[hansolsen]

31. So I take it you would prefer that Republican boggers over at Free

Republic should shut up and just cheer lead too.

Suppose some conservative blogger thinks the war in Iraq was a huge mistake and should be ended. Should he post that at FR or shut up?

Suppose some conservative blogger thinks the torture at Abu Ghraib was Sbrub's fault, and he should take responsibility for it. Should she post that message at FR, or should she just shut up.

Suppose some conservative blogger thinks the Rove smear maching is out of line. Should he or she eat their concerns, stuff their objections, and just post another yard sign for Bush?

Are you sure that is what you want??

[Bleacher Creature]

33. Huh??

I'm curious where I said that people should just shut up and cheer-lead for their candidate?

Or where I said that we should remain silent on major issues??

Or where I said that we shouldn't make suggestions to the campaign directly??

What I said is that sitting at your computer and constantly second-guessing a candidate's strategy accomplishes nothing. It just makes us look like a bunch of hand-wringing wimps.

If somebody has a suggestion on strategy that they feel strongly enough about to send a letter or email to the campaign, more power to you. If you decide to get involved with the campaign as a volunteer or staffer and decide to make the suggestion there, even better.

[hansolsen]

40. There is a lot to be said for "open" campaign suggestions.

Even if Kerry doesn't "hear" what is said in this forum, the members do. And members of this forum who support the war in Iraq need to hear every day, all day that their grand plan for the middle east is a national disgrace and a national nightmare.

Does that make any sense??

[John_H]

36. I think yours is a fair post now that he has some advisors that are both

experienced and talented.

[ever_green]

41. It's such an important election

I think we just are concerned. I find myself saying "Kerry should..." all the time, but only to other steadfast Kerry supporters. Not to anyone on the fence. We all have advice and I think the candidates should listen to what the people want. I've emailed the campaign a few times, I wonder if it did any good.

I don't think the media helps at all! They don't show Kerry's message, so people are left wondering, "who is Kerry, what does he stand for?". Hopefully they won't let the republicans define him.

[mbali]

43. Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

[chimp chump]

46. trees

If a tree falls in a forest, and there's no
one there to hear it, was there sound?