I think we'll lose the ANG CBS Memo deal. How bad is it going to hurt?

[4_Legs_Good]

This is not the time to be taking hits, but I don't think we're gonna win this one. CBS is somewhat backing off, and nothing excuses them using documents that they weren't certain were authentic, especially without warning the viewers. I don't think we're gonna get away with an "answer the question" defense.

How bad is this going to hurt Kerry? Of course it's all rediculous and a stupid thing to be arguing about, and a MAJOR victory for Rove since we're arguing about commas and subscripts instead of Education, War and the Environment.

Maybe the investigation should be into who forged the document (assuming it was forged).

Anyway, I'm getting nervous again.

david

[David Dunham]

1. AWOL story is helping Bush. No one is listening to Kerry now.

[merh]

6. I believe that perspective depends on who you talk to!

It just depends, no doesn't it.

[CatWoman]

11. you really should ignore him/her

that poster posts the same one-liner in every CBS thread.

[merh]

15. Thanks for the heads up - I have been out of touch for a few

days. I will take your advice.

[Mr_Spock]

19. Yeah, I'm getting about sick of some of these nay-sayers

and their unprovable negative opinions.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[4_Legs_Good]

28. I hope you're not talking about me!!

Please, because I'm a realist and want to work strategically, I'm a f*cking TROLL? Give me a break!

I refuse to always have a rosy attitude and think we're gonna win. 2002 proved that didn't work. I want to WORK to change this and figure out how we can defeat it.

I just listened to Left, Right and Center on PRI, and all three, including the ravenously wonderful Robert Scheer pretty much agreed that it was probably a forgery and very bad reporting by CBS.

Please don't accuse me of being a troll just because I'm trying to be ahead of the curve.

david

[Catfight]

76. I agree Catwomen, and his responses to the Troll remarks are the same

pleas as well. I really wish he'd spend that negative energy and subversive tactics on working to get the truth out, instead of claiming to be a 'realist,' by pontificating the same old rhetoric every few postings.

[JI7]

2. Kerry isn't the one pushing the story, Kerr yis talking issues

[4_Legs_Good]

9. Right, but the media and people aren't thinking issues...

they're thinking commas and Word and Selectric.

At least that's the feeling all around me. We should be wondering why the country is so much in the sh*tcan, not whether Times New Roman as a dot on the comma or not.

david

[dennis4868]

3. I dont think.....

this hurts Kerry at all...it will hurt CBS if they are in fact forgeries....but until someone proves that Kerry or anyone in the DNC was involved with this, it wont hurt Kerry....

[tedzbear]

71. DNC HAS been connected!

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=3&u=/ap/20040919/ap_on_el_pr/bush_guard_questions

[qanda]

4. What are you all talking about? My list keeps growing...

and growing and growing......

[necso]

5. Only as bad as we let it! n/t

[agingdem]

7. No one cares anymore.

And...other than Bush's rabid fans, most people have turned a deaf ear to the crap coming out of the White House.

[4_Legs_Good]

13. Yeah, but they're so good at getting us rabid about stupid stuff...

They've done it again and again, every time the glitz of some dumbass media hype wears off and people start to talk about Iraq or the economy or assault weapons, they just blow some other dumb-ass thing out of proportion and the media follows like flies on a new corpse.

I sure hope it just dies right away and we can concentrate on real issues.

david

[Scorpious_Maximus]

8. Why do people think

That the document story is hurting Kerry?

When the SwiftLiars ads came out, everyone was like, "They're hurting Kerry"

Now, the Bush documents are out, and because of a few freeptards and a lazy corporate media, people are saying the same thing.

There is just NO PLEASING some people!

[emulatorloo]

40. Apparently EVERYTHING hurts Kerry - at least thats what Tweety's pundits

say on Hardball. Anything that happens they say "This hurts Kerry." Apparently others believe it, but not me.

[mbali]

44. Bush's unfavorables are going up - this isn't hurting Kerry at all

[partygirl]

10. It hurts Rather and CBS

if they aired a story they were not sure of. Not our fault. I don't see how any reasonable person can blame Kerry, the campaign, or the DNC. We are innocent parties.

But it does distract from us getting media attention and getting our message out. So it did hurt us in a way.

[4_Legs_Good]

14. Limbaugh, my rightie co-workers, et.al. are all blaming democrats

Like it was a conspiracy. Anything that any single Democrat does immediately becomes part of the whole in their minds.

Geesh, it's not like someone forged a document that helped get us into a war after all!

david

[Qutzupalotl]

18. Send them this.

It's no forgery.

[4_Legs_Good]

26. Nice document!

I don't know that it proves it's not a forgery, photocopies will do stuff, but it's still a great example.

Remember those typewriters without a #1 on them, and you had to use the lowercase L instead. Geesh, those were the days.

The 1's aren't even close in the above (that's what made me think of the l's)

david

[partygirl]

21. I don't get that at all.

I mean if they are real--there is no problem for anyone. If they are fake--well CBS should be more careful about what they air.

This is not our problem.

[4_Legs_Good]

30. I hope, hope, hope you're right...

I also hope that if they are forgeries, we can trace them back to Rove.

david

[lanparty]

54. The point is ...

... that everything written in them is true.

If Dan Rather pulled this off, it was part of a one-two punch.

First they put out a fake in order to get the right wing frothing at the mouth and generate interest. THEN, they pull out the secretary who says that the memos are forgeries, but everything in them is 100% true.

I really like Killian's son who said the documents cannot be real because he never brought work home. THEN, he said that he knew they weren't real even though he said dad never talked shop at home.

[Tomee450]

65. But Limbaugh

and most right wingers ALWAYS blame democrats. Their behaviour in the matter of the forgeries is just what one would expect.

[Name removed]

68. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Rose Siding]

24. Who knows how Rather will be rewarded...

IF this was a set-up and IF he is complicit?

Regardless of the reflection on Dems, it HELPS Bush- the mental association of him being "falsly accused" will gain him sympathy in the politically unaware (who I am growing to despise)

[tedzbear]

72. DNC not innocent.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=3&u=/ap/20040919/ap_on_el_pr/bush_guard_questions

[T Roosevelt]

12. Still don't understand what facts support forgery

The secretary's comments only confirm that they are legit (the content matches things she had typed before), though not typed by her. Big deal. So Killian dragged out the typewriter and actually did something himself. Of course he would type CYA memos, though wouldn't necessarily have his secretary do it. CYA afterall...

[Qutzupalotl]

17. Right on. There are ZERO facts pointing to forgery.

Virtually every attempt to recreate them on a computer has failed. Badly. Every theory about forgeries, whether from Rove or the DNC, is speculation with no substance.

The signatures are authentic.

The likeliest scenario is that Killian typed them himself, probably after hours, as additional CYA insurance to the ones Knox typed. Good thing he did, too, as hers are nowhere to be found. And the White House has yet to answer for any of it.

[4_Legs_Good]

20. What about the CBS "experts" warning them not to air the story?

That's the buzz today.

So far as I can tell, that they are forgeries, in the Press I'm listening to, mostly public radio, is a foregone conclusion. It may not be true, but true or false hardly matters at this point, it's what the people hear and see on the news that counts.

david

[Qutzupalotl]

35. I'm hoping the RW media machine has to eat crow

and admit they misled about the documents, when the headlines appear: "Originals Surface: Documents Genuine, Say Experts: WH: No Comment."

Until then, it's easy to debunk the poor computer reconstructions, if you're a typographer, that is, and not a fake one like that Newcomer fraud.

[mbali]

48. This is exactly why Rove is so effective . . .

There is virtually no way to prove that the documents are NOT a forgery, even if they're authentic. However, while it is possible to prove that a document IS a fake, they have not shown that THESE documents are fake.

The Rove attack machine always spins things this way - they put their opponents in the position of having to prove a negative, something that's always difficult, and often impossible to do...

Another example - "Kerry's a flip-flopper" - How does one prove he is NOT a "flip-flopper?"

Another example - WMD - even though no WMD have been found, Bush, et al behave as if the failure to find WMD is not proof that there are none, but just a failure to find them.

Another example - Bush's National Guard Service. Bush just says over and over "I served" and leaves it up to Dems to prove that he didn't. The lack of any evidence that he ever showed up is not treated as proof that he didn't serve.

[lanparty]

53. They said they KNEW ...

... EXACTLY where the WMDs were. They have found NOTHING. They haven't even found chemical signatures of the things.

Most of the media is doing a cover job for Bush. They are not hammering the important points of this story. They are distracting us with Lacy Peterson and the like, etc...

But, I think we can finally count on CBS/Viacom to start hammering this stuff home. Viacom seems to be at war with the Bush administration over the whole FCC flap.

Have NO DOUBT that these stories have been around since 1999 and before. CBS has finally let Dan Rather off his leash. Lets hope they pick up Greg Palast as a "special correspondent" soon ;-)

[lanparty]

51. Don't kid yourself ...

These memos could easily be recreated on a computer by modifying the fonts. The evidence for fakes consists of:

1) Only two typewriters of the period being able to produce that text with proportional spacing and superscript th characters.
2) The secretary saying that she used an old Olympia and a generic IBM selectric. Neither of which could produce the text.
3) The secretary saying she didn't type those memos. Nor does it use terminology consistent with TANG standards.
4) The signatures don't match up well.


In the end, I think this will help Kerry. Shit Bush's numbers just dropped last week in most polls. How is THAT a failure????

The secretary is a double-edged sword for Bush. She says the documents are fake. But she also says that all the information is correct and the documents are likely re-creations of a "cover you ass" file that Col Killian kept specifically for Bush.

This punctures one corner of the Bush myth. The myth says that Bush is a standup guy who is a straight talker. This demonstrates that Bush hasn't been forthcoming about his military service record. It shows that he isn't a "rugged individualist" who achieves on his own merit. It shows that he has ALWAYS relied on his daddy's contacts to get EVERYTHING he wants.

Undermining all of this is getting an answer to the question "WHY COULDN'T BUSH TAKE HIS PHYSICAL". Once this question is asked enough, THEN CBS can drop the cocaine bombshell.

[gollygee]

57. I agree that the secretary is a double-edged sword for * (m)

maybe even worse - it makes her look very credible that she says the memos aren't her typing BUT the information in them is all correct. She can't be dismissed as someone just plain out to get Bush or she would have said she knew where those specific copies came from. I think it lends credibility to her personally.

I still don't know where the memos came from. It sounds like whoever typed them had read the originals, so they aren't straight forgeries - ie made up completely. Either he typed them himself or someone typed them from memory is my best guess.

[lanparty]

59. The word your looking for is ..

... they aren't frauds.

Their forged recreations. Actually, I'm pretty sure they're a prop in "performance art".

Who is doing the performing is yet to be seen. They could have come from the mind of Bill Burkett and Texans for Truth. They could also have sprung from the turd blossom himself in an effort to pre-emptively discredit the information IN the memo.

If it came from turd-blossom, he didn't count on the secretary. And I think it's still very likely since some of the White House docs contained the same inconsistencies that have the freeper shills howling (superscript 'st', proportional fonts, inconsistent dating formats). This would indicate that they came from the same forger who made the same mistakes.

If it came from the left, this was likely a ploy to expose the White House forgeries by turning the right wing echo chamber against itself. They use their publicity to hype up the story for a week. Then they bring out the secretary who says they are reproductions but the information is all 100% correct.

This takes off the shell of the onion. Below this is the stinky part. WHY didn't GW Bush take a simple physical examination. I'm pretty sure the cocaine bombshell is coming. I'm also pretty sure that CBS will now go after the veracity of White House documents using the same criterea the freepers are using against the "Killian Papers".

[lanparty]

58. BTW, the right wing claims ...

... are still bogus. They maintain that it was produced using the default settings for MS Word. Thats a lie. That font IS NOT Times New Roman. You only need look at how the letters aren't aligned correctly vertically to realize this.

The nonsense about the "centering" is just that. I was taught how to center text on typewriter in High School. Some typewriters will actually do this for you (including the selectrics).


The real crux of this issue is that the White House released a document using the same superscript 'st' character as the alleged forgery. This throws into doubt the veracity of the White House documents.

Remember that Bush has never signed the form allowing independent access to his records like Kerry has. Everything to date has been screened through the White House.

I think we need to turn this argument around and start asking WHY the documents the White House release have typwritten super-script 'st' characters. Hopefully this is Dan Rather's next step. And I'm hoping that this was all an elaborate setup to get the right wing to expose a White House forgery.

It is VERY true that word and other word processors automatically superscript the 'nd', 'st', 'rd' characters when suffixed to a numeral. And the White House may forgers may have made the same stupid mistake that their shills are now accusing CBS of doing. Forgetting to turn off the 'automatic' features of word and including two different styles of suffixing numerals in the same document.

The same can be said for the dating style. The freepers have said the dating styles in the documents are internally inconsistent. Well, so are the White House documents. And that same fingerprint could also indict the Bush files that the White House released. Than the bigger issue becomes ... WHAT were they hiding?????

[Qutzupalotl]

64. The IBM Executive and Selectric COMPOSER could do it

as well as several other models. Knox told CBS that her typewriter COULD do ordinals because it had dedicated keys for th, nd, and rd.

I don't think the White House documents are fake. I think Killian typed these memos after hours, without telling anyone, to fully CHA.

[lanparty]

66. I believe that unlikely ...

Soldiers are typically trained to fight, not type.

In the days before computers, most executives would scarcely lower themselves to such a time consuming task. Thats what secretaries are for.

The fact that Killian's secretary knew about all this stuff AND typed similar documents is telling. Why would he re-type what his secretary had done. If it's a record for personal reflection, he probably would have just written or recorded it.

[Qutzupalotl]

75. In case the ones Knox typed "disappeared"--which they did.

He was truly covering his ass. He probably used her typewriter after hours and kept them away from his home or office.

He knew he was dealing with the Bush family, who were known to turn on people for their own ends.

After all, he was being pressured to lie. So he made backups and told no one.

[Name removed]

70. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Qutzupalotl]

63. Not true, on nearly every count.

0) The memos could only be recreated on a computer with extreme difficulty and expertise. So far, all attempts fall FAR short. Each letter would have to be individually distressed to simulate keys striking a ribbon. The expert forger would have to know that 1972 typewriters could do superscripts, as well as knowing the events around Bush and Killian's thoughts about them.



1) At least nine different typewriters of the time were capable of proportional spacing and superscript ordinals. The TANG requisitioned IBM Executive typewriters during the time in question.
2) The secretary told CBS that her typewriter could do the "th" key and proportional spacing.
3) She didn't type them, but Killian certainly could have, and not told her; he would have been motivated to do so, in case the ones Knox typed were lost. Guess what? They WERE lost.
As for the army terminology, Killian could have easily picked it up during his military career, while Knox is unlikely to have done so.
4) The signatures were verified as authentic by CBS' signature expert. His "clarification" was that as a signature expert, he wasn't qualified to vouch for the typewritten portion.

I agree with the other points in your post.

[lanparty]

67. Distressed characters ...

You can simulate the "distress" by digitizing the output and running it through a sparse bluring filter.

Beyond this, these aren't originals. Nor are they good copies. They have been run through a LOT of analog interference via photocopies. How the hell would you tell the difference between "ribbon distress" and copier shmultz. Especially if your "distress" was schmultzed through a copier.

I believe the secretary. She says they're probably fake. She says that the text is NOT consistent with the typewriters she used. She says that all the information in the documents are correct.

[Qutzupalotl]

74. The letters rise and fall individually.

This cannot be the result of photocopying or Photoshop filters. They have to be raised and lowered individually in Photoshop--extremely time-consuming--or be done on a typewriter.

The secretary said the typographic capabilities are consistent with her typewriter. What she objected to was the terminology and spelling; this is easily explained if Killian typed the memos, since he was not much of a typist.

[hughee99]

22. I didn't think that she said

the content matches something she typed before, just that she thinks the content supports what Killian believed. If she had typed this before, then there should be a document out there to find. As much as I would like to believe that the doc is real, there are just too many questions about it's authenticity and origins for me to be convinced of anything. While this may be what Killian was thinking, the fact is that no one seems to be willing to step up and authenticate it, even his own secretary. Unfortunately it could be a big win for * in that this would help to "poison the well" if future documents come to light.

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bobbyboucher]

16. This hurts CBS only if they forged them. It doesn't matter a lick

to Kerry voters. And he's got all he needs already.

[4_Legs_Good]

23. You really think he has all the voters he needs???

I hope to God you're right, but I think we're a bit behind right now. A good last few weeks of campaigning, lots of big names on the road and a good showing in the debates will easily pull us ahead, but I don't want us to lose any traction.

david

[Karenina]

27. I think we'll lose the ANG CBS Memo deal. How bad is it going to hurt?

Only as much as CONTINUALLY IGNORING the TRUTH, THE CONTENT of the docs.

[4_Legs_Good]

33. Yeah, but the problem is that we lose a chance of getting the content

to be the issue if we can argue about the authenticity.

Personally, I don't think there's anything in the memos that we didn't know already, and nothing that will sway a voter. George Jr. has his CYA born-again story which pretty much saves him from scrutiny about anything prior to his marraige.

Maybe it would have a positive effect on Veterans and National Guardists if it were proven.

The real issue, however, would be why he's lied about it for the past decade. Other than that, I don't think the ANG angle will pay many dividends.

david

[Karenina]

42. David, David, David...

The documents contain the TRUTH whether they are "re-creations" or not. What is AMAZING and HORRIFYING is that the TRUTHS darin, corraborated MANY TIMES OVER have NOT YET SURFACED in the public consciousness.

STOP arguing about the "authenticity." This obsession in an sane world would cause every version of the Bible to spontaneously erupt in FLAMES. Is it a FACT that the *dauphin blew off MILITARY ORDERS??? Yes. it is.

Did he complete his service? NO. He did NOT.

[creeksneakers2]

29. The whole thing is a big distraction

Time is growing short too. Bush has gotten away with proposing a national sales tax with almost no response. Will Bush tax medical care? Will you have to pay 22% more when you buy a house? How can the banks lend money to settle a tax liability? These are the questions that would hurt Bush. People vote their pocket books. Nobody cares what Bush did in the National Guard.

[4_Legs_Good]

36. Agreed, agreed, agreed!

Can't we just bury this and move on. I swear if this election comes down to whether or not George Jr.'s records were sugar coated or Kerry pulled a soldier out of the river with his right or left arm, I'm going to EXPLODE!

The Bush machine has controlled the agenda since it was clear Kerry had the nomination. We only have 6 weeks to take it back!

david

[lanparty]

60. You know, I personally don't care ...

... about Bushie Prince George's military service OR his Cocaine abuse.

But I do know he's lying about both of them. And I know that if his core voters knew, a LOT of them would abandon Bush.

I want that fucker out of office and getting the REAL cocaine stories out in the mainstream media (just like the bogus Clinton coke stories) will hurt Bush.

The truth is that Bush is a lacksidasical fuckup. He has achieved NOTHING throughout his lifetime. His entire existence is derived from his Daddy's contacts. If Bush was born poor, he would be selling used cars right now or swindling seniors in phone scams. His sole virtue seems to be that of con-artist.

This is all about puncturing the Bush myth that was perpetrated on us in 2000. He was NOT a good fighter pilot. He was NOT a good scholar. He is NOT athletic. He is NOT a "rugged individualist". He is NOT an "individual acheiver". He was NOT a good businessman. He was NOT a good governor. He is NOT honest. He NEVER recovered from his alcoholism.

There is a house of cards that is the Bush myth. Take out a few cards and the whole thing will collapse. At that point a lot of swing voters will opt against him as well as his core supporters. Veterans (a VERY strong voting block) will be horrified that they went to war when Bush pulled strings to get out of it without even meeting basic requirements.

Poke holes in the Bush myth, eventually it will lose it's air and evoporate!!!!!!

[Mr_Spock]

31. "Lose???" You mean we had a horse in this race??

WTF are you talking about? CBS ran a story. Freepers freaked out and called the memos forgeries with NO PROOF TO THIS DATE PROVING THEIR POSITION. A Mrs. Knox vouched for the content of the memo's even though she didn't type them. END OF STORY.

[0rganism]

32. We can't win. Everything hurts Kerry. Time for him to go back to Boston.

Let's just fold now. There's no reason to continue campaigning. Every news item that comes up just hurts the Democrats. Time to cash it all in and register as republicans.

Doom, doom, doom, doom, doom, doom, doom. We're DOOMED, I tell you, DOOMED!

:crazy:

[Beetwasher]

34. Yup! Talk About Iraq! NO! Talk About the Economy! NO! Go Negative! NO!

Stay Positive! No!

If you're a Dem, NOTHING works! :eyes:

I love these guys. So, negative stories about a Dem candidate only work against Dems. Negative stories about Repub candidates hurt Dems too! Yeesh...

[4_Legs_Good]

37. We're not DOOMED, we just need to be proactive!

I rode out 2002 without getting too involved. I rode out 2000 without understanding the consequences. I don't want to rest on 2004!

I want to WIN for freaking once! I don't want my 2 year old to grow up in a sh*thouse of lies. I don't want him to be drafted, ever.

Sorry for being paranoid, but I haven't been able to sleep for over 3 years! I was hoping that on November 2nd I'd be able to sleep like a baby. This is SOOOOO important!

david

[David Dunham]

38. Why we need to get back to real issues and abandon AWOL stuff

A lot of media savvy Democrats in New York are telling me that the DNC's current attacks on Bush's National Guard record -- as well as the press' focus on it -- are in fact hurting the Kerry-Edwards campaign. They believe that the focus on the National Guard issue is not likely to gain us votes -- because whatever Bush did or did not do 30 years ago is irrelevant to virtually all voters today. For the vast majority of voters, the crucial issue in this election is what Bush has done during the last 4 years as president. Talking about the National Guard issue is only diverting voters' attention from Bush's numerous failures in office.

More importantly, talking about the National Guard issue is preventing Senator Kerry's substantive message from getting out to voters. I know that the DNC's idea is to have Senator Kerry talking about the substantive issues while the DNC goes after Bush on the National Guard issue. Unfortunately, however, the DNC's and the press' focus on the National Guard issue are overshadowing Senator Kerry's chances to get his message to the voters. I recognize that the DNC has been addressing other issues, but paying attention to the National Guard issue in itself diverts voters' attention from the substantive issues on which we can still win this election.

It would be much more effective if the DNC, as soon as possible, would begin focusing solely on the crucial issue of Bush's numerous failures in office over the past 4 years -- on the economy, on tax cuts heavily favoring the rich, on Iraq, and so forth. Ads could also be run attacking Bush's proposals for a second term, such as his plan to partially privatize Social Security.

[4_Legs_Good]

39. Right! The ANG stuff was probably most effective as rumor

to charge up the base. Sure, having proof is nice, but it's not an issue worth really fighting about. It's not going to change minds. I wish it would all just go away.

Focus on the blunder of Iraq. Focus on failure of intelligence. Focus on health care. Focus on the environment. Focus on education. Focus on the deficit.

And present a clear, new vision for the future.

There have been so many failures over the past 4 years, let's think about them, not whether George Jr. was too boozed up or not to show up for a physical.

We HAVE to win this one.

david

[lanparty]

61. It's not about GAINING votes ...

... it's about taking votes away from Bush.

Veterans were supposedly "against" Clinton because he 'dodged' the draft. They perceived this as a defficiency in one's ability to command a military.

Well here we are in a middle of a war of choice. The war is VERY similar to Vietnam. We have a Commander in Chief who advocated for both wars but is willing to make ZERO personal sacrifices for it.

Bush made a deal to stay out of war: one weekend a month and 2 weeks a year for 6 years. It's not that hard of a bargain. That was the price for his "get out of conscription card". Bush did NOT pay the price.

Not only that, but he was promoted to the head of the line over more deserving candidates then himself. This country paid millions of dollars on a flight education that George W Bush just squandered away. Those positions were SUPPOSED to be for people who wanted to pursue a career in aviation. Bush signed a form to this affect. He lied.

Bush allowed himself to be grounded over failure to take a simple flight examination. Why would he do this. We know he was a drop dead drunk. We're going to get the FOIA records from Bush's squadron showing independently that Bush was missing his monthly drills (along with Maj. James Bath).

We know that Bush was denied transfer by command, than his Daddy (or surrogates) intervened to get his transfer. We know at one point even the Senate campaign wanted to get rid of him. We know he was a drop dead drunk. We know that he has carefully worded statements about cocaine abuse that does not include anytime before 1974.

We know that Bush was back in Houston working for PUSH. We know that during that time he was serving neither TANG nor the Alabama national guard. We know that Bush was ORDERED to find a new unit to serve in and disobeyed.

We know that Bush signed an OATH to find a unit in Massachussetts to serve out his time while attending Harvard (just one weekend a month). We know that Bush NEVER did this service. We know that Bush was given an honorable discharge in contrivance to regulation. His behavior and conduct was completely unsuitable for an officer and should have led to active duty due to failure to comply do direct orders.

Bush took one simple oath. He pledged to serve one weekend a month and two weeks a year for 6 years. How can such a man who cannot fullfill the SIMPLEST of duties fullfill the presidential oath of office. President is a FULL TIME job. It is a 24-7, 365 day a year job.

A man of Bush's character CANNOT be trusted upon to fullfill such a committment. Indeed his conduct is completely consistent with the Bush of 1972. He doesn't show up. He doesn't do his job. He even needs others to read for him. He takes extended vacations away from his duty.

THIS IS WHY THE TANG RECORD IS IMPORTANT!!!! BUSH IS A MAN OF POOR MORAL CHARACTER WITH A CRAPPY WORK ETHIC!!!! HE IS AN OATH-BREAKER!!!! HE IS A LIAR!!!! HE IS A COWARD!!!! HE IS UNACCOMPLISHED!!!! HE HAS NEVER EARNED A SINGLE DIME THAT DIDN'T COME FROM HIS FATHERS CONTACTS!!!!!

BUSH IS THE FUCKUP SON OF POWERFUL EASTERN ESTABLISHMENT POLITICIAN!!!! HE IS NOT AN "AVERAGE GUY" AS HE PORTRAYS!!! HE'S A FRAUD!!!!

[wurzel]

41. The fat lady hasn't sung yet! Supposing Rather in the next 60MIN11

has a section on the destruction of Bush Guard Docs. And has the "perpetrator" explain what happened and why he did what he did? Think there will be an audience?

[ContinentalOp]

47. I agree. I think Rather is just letting it simmer.

I can't wait to see where it leads in the end. Personally, I'm hoping it uncovers a large Watergate-style coverup involved in the purging and airbrushing of Bush's past.

[lanparty]

62. Yes, Bill Burkett is a good followup ...

... and just MAYBE we'll find out about the origins of the CBS documents.

But I'm really hoping they go after some of the White House Bush records that contain the SAME "irregularities" that the freepers have been screaming about. Turn the argument around and put the White House on the defensive!!!!!

The real thrust of this conversation is forthcoming!!!! Why couldn't Bush perform the simplest of tasks???? Why couldn't he get a physical??? Why did the Bush campaign lie about not being able to "see the family doctor"???? The Cocaine bombshell is forthcoming!!!!!

[Democat]

43. This has nothing to do with Kerry - the right wing is distracted now!

The right wing is spending much of their time attacking CBS instead of attacking Kerry - that's not a bad thing.

We need another major scandal attack on Bush because this one is over.

I don't see this issue hurting Kerry.

[ContinentalOp]

46. Bingo! They're being kept on the defensive. -nt-

[Suzi Creamcheese]

45. The whole thing gives me a headache. Dan Rather was trying to help

but I think it is inevitable that some of the bad will rub off on the Kerry Campaign. People don't pay enough attention to the detail, especially those who are late deciders, and they won't spend time sorting out the differences and distinctions.

[Dr Fate]

49. This does not help Bush one bit- the "Was Bush AWOL?" Memo is alive & well

So long as people are reminded that there are questions about his record, this is all a good thing.

I say DEMS come out on top w/ this one, because it totally neutralized the SVB liars. We have heard nothing of them for quite some time- but PLENTY about hte Bush/AWOL/Cocaine bidness!

[Bridget Burke]

50. How many speeches have Kerry or Edwards given....

in which they refer to Dan Rather or Kitty Kelley? The disastrous foreign & domestic policies of the Bush administration--& the alternatives Kerry & Edwards offer--give them plenty of material.

But the Bush lovers are squealing like stuck pigs over the insults to their hero. We can even hear them at DU!

Music to my ears.

(edited to add "disastrous")

[Zynx]

52. Nobody cares about it. Let's focus on Iraq, the Economy, and Healthcare

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[seabeyond]

55. dont play that game for me, its true

we all know it is true. knew it was true years ago. i dont really care about cbs, the story is true. the secretary says it is true. burkett says it is true. non records during this time tell us it is true.

[tedzbear]

73. Looks like the DNC, not CBS, is at the bottom of this.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=3&u=/ap/20040919/ap_on_el_pr/bush_guard_questions