Orwellian Nightmare

[goodwalt]

Does anybody have a site that shows which states, or even better, which counties will be using paperless voting machines Nov. 2nd? Up until about two weeks ago I had been EXTREMELY confident that we were going to kick Shrub and Co. out on their asses come election day. Now I have half convinced myself that these screwey poll numbers we have been seeing are being cranked out as cover for the theft of the next election. Specifically, I am worried about Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Florida. Don't each of these states have Republican governors? Is there a shit-bag Katherine Harris wannabe in charge of counting the votes? Do they have a significant number of counties using paper-trailess voting machines? If the answers are all yes, then we are at the mercy of the repug's sense of patriotism and honor. In other words- we're fucked. Please, somebody cheer me up with info to the contrary.

[AmerDem]

1. I have said the same thing

They are rig and inflated so as not to cause as much of a scene come time for election results. All of these polls fail to show NEW registered voters and when phone polls are conducted only those with land lines are surveyed. I seen a stat that showed most cell phone user are in the 18 to 24 year age group and the 18 to 24 age group is about 75% in support of Kerry. Anyway, you get the idea.

[gmoney]

2. It's been fixed...

[leftofthedial]

3. the phony polls are absolutely the foundation cover

for vote fraud.

2000 WAS A COUP!

A COUP!!

Not a botched election.

A COUP!!!

These bushturds are not going to give up power due to the changing whims of the commoners.

[DieboldMustDie]

4. Pennsylvania has a Democratic Governor.

For what it's worth the county I live in -- Montgomery -- used Sequoia machines in 2000 and, despite a narrow Republican majority in registration, voted for Gore by 54% to 44%.

[goodwalt]

7. Some Comfort

That is some comfort. It makes sense to me that if they intend to rig this thing, they will work their chicanery in the fewest number of swing states possible to reduce exposure. That's how I came up with those 3, each with 20 + electoral votes. I sincerely believe that increased Dem voter turn out- and that IS going to happen- will carry us to victory in any fair fight. Do you know who is in charge of counting/ not counting the votes? Are they, by any chance, Bush's campaign director for Pennsylvania? Thanks for the info.

[crickets]

5. Georgia

I know it's a state that votes Repub, and no one expects otherwise on Nov. 2, least of all me. Nonetheless, we Dems have our moments voting in Dem Governors, and Senators like Cleland. There are more Democrats in this state, and Republicans questioning Bush, than you might otherwise guess. I live in a very conservative area, and it surprises me how many people are Dem, or how many people I *know* are lifelong Republicans who WILL NOT VOTE for Bush. Because we have e-voting and no organized exit polls (that I know of) no one will notice if the state votes overwhelmingly Republican on the presidential ticket when - just perhaps - the vote isn't so overwhelming after all.

2002 is a good example. The minute I walked into the precinct and saw the machines, asked questions and got no knowledgeable answers from the poll workers (no slight to them; they were doing their best) I knew it was all over.

I have a form for an absentee ballot and don't know what to do with it. Do I go out of town and vote absentee? Do I stay and try to work exit polls? What? What do I do, and will it matter?

:mad:

This is so WRONG to be this concerned about whether my vote counts or not. The discussions about trying to get printed paper ballots for e-voting states don't seem to have mentioned GA so far. Is there anywhere I should go to try to push for paper ballot printout legislation in GA?

Anybody know Jimmy Carter's home address? I'd love to know how he feels about voting on these damned machines.

[goodwalt]

17. Feel your pain

Living in Oklahoma as I do, I'm in the same boat. Since we both live in backward, bright red states, there would be no point in them fixing our elections- unless they figure out a way to give a bonus electoral vote for states that go 100% for W.

[crickets]

22. "unless they figure out a way to give a bonus electoral vote"

Yikes, don't give them any ideas! In any case, it's nice to meet another red state Dem. :hi:

[girl gone mad]

6. Did you try blackboxvoting.org?

I think they've got a message board over there. You might want to re-post this there.

[KingofRock]

8. No offense, but the Orwell references are being stretched pretty thin.

How many DUers have even read 1984? But nice job calling Katherine Harris a shit-bag. I usually just use sack-o-shit.

[skooooo]

10. uh.,.a lot of people here have read 1984

[goodwalt]

11. You're Right

Your right. The "Orwellian" aspect of what's going on these days was tangential to the purpose of my post. But damned if it doesn't feel like we are slipping bit by bit from democracy to totalatarianism- only instead of a strong man generalisimo taking charge at the head of an army, we have a figurehead "Big Brother" fronting for our corporate over-lords that is able to maintain power through manipulation/control of a submissive mainstream media, and keeping the populace in fear by maintaining a state of perpetual war. Then there is the clever naming of insidious programs like "Patriot Act"(read Thought Police), "Operation Iraqi Freedom", "Death Tax", "Partial Birth Abortion", and on and on. No, we are not there yet- but the warnings of 1984 have never seemed more applicable than they do right here and right now.

[Ravy]

12. I find Democrats are pretty evenly divided on this issue...

Half think of her as a shit bag, but the others claim sack-o-shit.

Who is to say who is right?

But the point really is, her (Harris') replacment is no better. She has already tried a phony felon's list, has petitioned the courts in favor of Nader, has defied court orders concerning the ballot.

Don't count on any sense of decency from the Rethugs in control of Florida. They will use every trick in their power to ensure that their man will win. I hope Ohio and PA are a bit better.

[goodwalt]

16. Are you insane?

Are you insane? Harris is CLEARLY and UNEQUIVOCALLY, a SHIT-BAG! Honestly, I don't understand where some of these opinions are coming from.

[Ravy]

18. Note, I didn't say what *I* believe.... I clearly said HALF of the dems..

... but.. while we are on the subject..

Doesn't shit-bag imply simply a container for the shit? What about the shit itself? Would a shit-bag necessarily contain shit? Or, just POTENTIALLY contain shit. Reasonable people could disagree.

Not trying to cause trouble here...

:-)

[goodwalt]

19. Too late- Now Its ON!

Sorry- I really intended to give you a fiery response on the merits, but its just too hard to type and laugh maniacally at the same time. Tell you what- why not post it as a poll question-"Katherine Harris, Shit Bag or Sack-O-Shit?" and let the voters decide? At least we can have some confidence in the integrity of the outcome.

[Ravy]

20. It is much to divisive BEFORE the election for Dems to tackle this..

... but after the election, hopefully it can become our number one priority. Well, this topic... and of course whether we should permanently replace the letter W in our alphabet with a symbol representing an erect middle finger.

[Tsiyu]

15. DUers aren't like Repukes, King Of Rock

We actually read REAL books. We don't let other people tell us what's in those books. We don't get our info off of partisan commercials. Stick around. You are met with more brain cells with one DUer here than there are in the entire Republican cabal.

Anyone wanting info can check out the BBV ( black box voting) threads or the Bev harris threads- usually in GD.

[Chili]

9. Ohio is NOT using Diebold

...or any other electronic voting. We are using the same paper (chad producing!) ballots we've used for years.

But we have a Republican governor. On the other hand, that Republican governor (Taft) just got his ass chewed out by Grover Norquist who said he was lazy, stupid and needed to be "taken out back and horsewhipped." I shit you not. Perhaps Grover shouldn't have said that, LOLOL.

[mongo]

13. There is some conflicting info about Ohio

These machines were in then out then in then out. I think that now the machines are going to be used in 4 counties, but I have not been able to find out which counties.

From a Sept 7th article

New
electronic voting machines are being installed in several states, including
California, Ohio, Maryland, Connecticut and Florida, the site of several major
vote tallying controversies in the 2000 Presidential election.

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=109&STORY=/www/story/09-07-2004/0002244679&EDATE=

I hope someone can find a source for this info. I will try to do some more digging a little later today.

[goodwalt]

21. If its JUST 4 counties..

If it is just four counties- even if they are big ones- should make Ohio pretty tough to steal. To pump up the Bush numbers sufficiently to sway the outcome for an entire state would look mighty suspicious. Just day-dreaming here, but wouldn't that be a beautiful thing? Four paperless counties inexplicably voting for Bush in land-slide numbers. Then the investigation- congressional hearings- a dibolt technician coming forward to expose Karl Rove's hand in the cookie jar. THAT might even eclipse Watergate.

[goodwalt]

14. Thank you, thank you, thank you

THAT is the best news I've heard in weeks. Bring on the CHADS! As long as there is SOMETHING to count, I think Dem voter turn-out, new voters, UNEMPLOYED voters, disillusioned servicemen and their families, Republican seniors pissed off about medicare, Howard Stern listeners and Farhenheit 9/11 viewers should be able to swamp the opposition in any fair fight. I'm not worried about the screwey polls, except as cover for another coup. No Ohio- No more shrub. Thanks again.