I'm sorry, but I have no problems with taxing "Cadillac" plans

[BluegrassDem]

It seems to me that most Americans don't have those sorts of plans, so why not tax them? Why is that progressives in Congress are waging a war about this? I don't see why unions should be protected. Everyone's going to have to pitch in a pay a bit more if we want universal coverage. I do know some union members have those really great plans, but so do CEO's and big time execs. So I certainly don't see anything wrong with a combination of tax increases on rich individuals, insurance companies, and Cadillac plans to pay for health care reform.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Go2Peace]

2. Where did you pick up the "talking point" about Union members having "Cadillac plans"

Some unions have done a great job of holding on to decent (not cadillac) plans that actually cover their members. And now those unions are fighting to get the rest of the US covered.

There is nothing unusual about most "Union health plans". I guess if one was used to eating from garbage bins a regular meal might seem like an extravagance. But instead how about everyone just fight to get the regular "meal" for their labor, instead of resenting those who have fought and won a decent health plan for their hard labor?

[BluegrassDem]

4. The unions are against this tax

It's not something I think we need to draw a line in the sand about as many House Dems are doing right now. We have to get the money from somewhere. In order to get a good bill, this is a compromise I have no problems with, and neither does Obama apparently.

[karynnj]

17. This is a case of Baucus over reaching - the union were willing to

not fight this when the originally proposed threshold of $25,000 was used. Baucus got greedy and moved it down to near $20,000. That shift increases the revenue, but it then hits many people who the original proposal didn't. The question now, is whether after the threshold was changed on the unions whether they will NOW, not trusting Congress, oppose it even if the thresholds are lower again.

[joeycola]

6. I believe an article was posted here with the unions admitting

they had cadillac plans.

[Ikonoklast]

12. Link, please.

[stray cat]

16. google is your friend - NY times had an article I'm sure many others as well

[stray cat]

15. 8000 per year for insurance for a single person is the Cadilac plan

so just about anyone who gets supplemental insurance from work. It is not your premiums - its the total the employer pays and it is more than most think. A family plan is usually around 12-15,000 for a decent plan - 40% of that for a family - can most familys fork out an extra 7000 a year?

[flyarm]

3. many union workers give up pay raises for those benefits ..so basically they have

already paid a form of tax to get better health care plans..only it was pay raises they gave up.

why don't we tax the OP's plan ..if that is what you want..lets tax them all..

ahh ..from what i hear..that is what Baucus's plan will do eventually.......

[MichiganVote]

37. Exactly right. Pay for the plan, pay for the people who don't have a plan, pay for medicare and

medicaid and still have higher premiums and even higher deductibles every goddamn year. Add a tax on top of that? I don't think so.

[joeycola]

5. I would agree IF it were for true universal coverage but even now

Obama said it would be less than 5 %.

[DrToast]

7. Because the unions are against it

They also helped kill Wydens free choice amendment.

[Bunny]

8. Some union members with "cadillac" plans are making $10/hour.

And paying 15% toward the monthly premium on their "cadillac" plan. And you want to further tax these people? What a ridiculous idea.

[bornskeptic]

22. I have a real hard time believing that.

You're saying that a union which can negotiate a "cadillac" health insurance policy for its members can't get them a better wage than $10 an hour? Which union is that screwed up?

[Bunny]

23. Hey 'skeptic' - the union is SEIU and they give up higher increases in their

wages so they can keep their 'cadillac' plan. Pay attention - that's only been stated in this thread about ten times already. :eyes:

[SemiCharmedQuark]

34. Absolutely. Their health plan took the place of wage increases.

Which, at the time, was probably not a bad deal. Health care costs can bankrupt you quickly.

[bread_and_roses]

9. Why is anyone here using the RW "cadillac" plan term?

What's a "cadillac" plan? One that actually covers your health care? Union workers, btw, have given up raises, accepted higher co-pays and contributions to keep decent health care coverage. But even that's not the main point.

The idea that decent coverage is a "cadillac" idea is so simple-minded, so reactionary, that it is unbelievable to me that anyone is seriously using the term.

[Kokonoe]

10. What health care reform would leave crappy insurance

for you, and Cadillac plans for a few lucky unions.
Thats not health care reform, its the same denial we have now.

[peacebird]

11. What, precisely, does the term "cadillac" plan mean?

[gkhouston]

19. It's the one those welfare mothers have.

:sarcasm: for the younger DUers who don't remember that infamous slander.

[ProSense]

33. Nothing remotely what it's being characterized as in this thread.

The misinformation is astounding.

[Warren Stupidity]

39. It means a republican rightwing bullshit talking point.

[PVnRT]

13. Define a "Cadillac" plan

Not what you "feel" like it is, an actual, working, legal definition that could go into the tax code.

We'll wait.

[stray cat]

14. If Americans are willing to pay 13% of their income on mandatory insurance

then you can have workers taxed 40% for their insurance plans. This does hit most Americans who have sacrificed pay to get decent insurance. 8000 for a single person plan is not high- most of us who get insurance through work will get taxed at 40% but if you if you are happy paying 13% of your income for insurance - I can pay my part.

[Bluenorthwest]

18. What's witht the Republica lexicon?

Cadillac plans?
Do you understand the low threshold, and that Unions often take benefits instead of pay raises, in order to care for our families and to retain excellent benefit levels for those who come after?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

20. Unions fought for those plans.

And the problem isn't people WITH insurance its people without.

I think this will only add to the problem.

[Better Believe It]

21. Define a so-called "Cadillac plan"

So why shouldn't good comprehensive health care insurance plans covering workers be protected? Because your plan is shitty?

Most people don't have good health insurance plans so tax those workers who have good plans! That's the ticket!

Well, don't blame other working people for that.

How can this reactionary right-wing bull shit appear on DU?

Perhaps some well meaning "liberals" are unduly influenced by right-wing media propaganda.

Or the bias of right-wing union bashers just surfaces sometimes on DU.

If you hate workers and their unions you don't belong on DU!

[iceman66]

24. First of all, no one's health care benefits should be taxed,

that is Republican idea intended solely to end employer-provided health insurance. Until we have single-payer that is a necessary part of the system.

Second, health care reform, if done right, would significantly reduce the cost of the so-called Cadillac plans as well.

[politicat]

25. Define that term, please.

What does it mean? A healthcare plan that actually has coverage? One that covers cosmetic and optional care? I've never met a "cadillac" plan -- that isn't a defined term. Please use a term that means something if you're going to talk about taxing it.

[quiller4]

26. Do you realize that union members with "Cadillac" plans negotiate

for them and give up wage increases and retirement contributions to maintain good healthcare for themselves and their families. I am dead set against taxing such plans.

[Jennicut]

27. My husband is in the IBEW....works for CT Light and Power.

We have a pretty good health plan even if it is through Cigna. Dental and Vision. Being a diabetic, I go to my endocrinologist a lot and like paying only $15 for my copay to see my Dr. Would this qualify as a "cadillac" plan? Everyone should have a good plan. Not sure why penalizing people with good plans is a good idea though we do have find some way to pay for the people who have little to no coverage.

[WinkyDink]

28. Union members have given up SALARY raises to GET health-coverage. Can they have that money back?

[TheKentuckian]

29. You realize that a "Cadillac" plan is worth about 8k in this context

If you have a plan the odds of it being that or more is pretty high. Your part may not be but the total cost probably is. I think that this "squeezeplay" is a poorly thought out cost containment tactic because rather than finding efficiency it will simply result in policies being gutted.

This isn't just about unions, though that's where the effect will be most pronounced, because all of us have been trading pay for coverage. This tax is an undue hardship on the middle class that will rob many of the value of pay concessions negotiated and imposed. This is not a pitch in but rather a rip off. Pitching in would be a bump in premiums or a tax. This is promoting letting the employers and the insurance companies steal about 10 years of pay raises that disproportionately slamming already struggling workers.

[Hekate]

30. More class warfare, if you ask me. Divide and conquer. Crabs in a bucket...

... pulling each other back.

All of us are *already* paying more for our health insurance than any other nation on Earth.

What is even *meant* by a "Cadillac" health plan? One that actually pays out half the time?

Why would you target unions, for gods' sake? They are the only friend the working man and woman has in the labor market. Why do the work of your corporate masters by continuing to further tear down the advances unions made in the 20th century?

:wtf:

Hekate

[MidwestRick]

31. Replace union with white collar executive

and I wonder how differently the posts in this thread would be.

[Laelth]

32. It's an attack on unions. Nothing more and nothing less. n/t

:dem:

-Laelth

[Stinky The Clown]

35. I'd like to invite you to .....

..... shove your broad brush right up your ass ..... bristle end first.

Many of us pay out of pocket at "Cadillac" rates just to stay insured.

Lemme tell something, pallie. I have health issues that would render me uninsurable were I to change insurance companies. The company I am with (an HMO, actually) lets me stay cuz I pay through the nose. I'm just holding on by the skin of my teeth, hoping I make it alive to Medicare. You have no idea how grateful I am that I can afford this. You also havbe no idea that I wish everyone had coverage.

But tell me you want to tax what I am paying DEARLY for, just to stay alive.

I was going to tell you to go fuck yourself, but decided not to, sending along the wish above, instead.

[MichiganVote]

36. Maybe because people work for these plans and what they earn is applied to them?

As opposed to scores of the wealthy who do nothing? And what defines a Cadillac plan? You? If you're going to argue a point, bring an example before you shoot off your foot.

[Warren Stupidity]

38. Great another union bashing bullshit post on DU.

Teh clueless is strong with this one.