I've had it with the Kerry campaign team

[Cyrano]

Let me make that clearer. I've fucking had it with the Kerry campaign team.

THEY'RE DOING ANOTHER SHAKEUP 46 DAYS BEFORE THE ELECTION. WTF?

They knew they were going up against Karl Rove and his sewer rats (as well as a hostile media) before this even began. Yet they've been playing by some gentleman's set or rules that someone or other thought was appropriate.

In today's NY Times, there's an article that Mary Beth Cahill (Kerry's campaign manager) will have to live with herself after this is all over. Really? And what will the rest of have to live with if we lose. We don't all have homes in Georgetown to retreat to.

Am I a pissed off Democrat? You bet. And we thought that George W. was incompetent.

And don't tell me about the latest polls that came out. We should be ahead of these fascist bastards by 20 points right now and, if this campaign had been properly run, the American people would be screaming for jail time for BushCo.

Okay, end of rant. Show me where I'm wrong.

(P.S. This is my 999th post. Though I'd use it on something critical.)

[Goldmund]

1. I would show you...

...except you're not wrong.

[skooooo]

2. No time to show you where you're wrong...

...lead, follow, or get out of the way.

[Cyrano]

15. Read post 8 below.

[skooooo]

18. ..sounds like it's time for you to get out of the way then.

You know, the last time Kerry shook up his staff was right before he took off in the primary, so I really don't know what you're whining about. Why do you assume this is a sign of weakness?

I don't have time time or energy to argue with you about it. Let your conscience be your guide.

[Selwynn]

41. See post #39 below

[wtmusic]

3. Lots of know-it-alls when Kerry's down

Lots of told-you-sos when Kerry's up

Has it occurred to you that the election is 6 weeks away and the SBVT have already shot their wad? You want him ahead in the polls today, or then?

Stop complaining and get out there and make some phone calls. :eyes:

[Cyrano]

8. Okay wtmusic. I might as well use my 1000th post on you.

I've contributed, marched, written, called, knocked on doors, argued in bars and supermarkets, enrolled new voters and sat up at nights worrying about the future of freedom on planet earth.

I've damn well earned the right to complain. If I recall correctly, it's the Republican party that quashes complaints and dissent.

And if I think the current Kerry campaing managers have their heads up their asses, I think I've earned the right to say so.

[wtmusic]

13. Everyone has the right to complain

but I still haven't heard a solution. Just complaining.

(congrats on 1000 btw) :bounce: :toast: :bounce:

[molly]

14. Go have your little temper tantrum

and come back with a more positive outlook. Good to see you are at least working on it, but I see your rant as a CONTROL issue.

[merh]

19. The repukes have been winning because instead of

complaining and whining and bitching, they just work to win. They don't grip all the time, they support their candidate and keep the internal campaign issues and controversies quiet. We don't have that luxury because of the media and whining within the party (and way to many arm chair quarterbacks). Maybe that is the lesson that should be taken from this and the tactic you should take.

:cry: What does whining about it get you anyway :cry: IMHO you have fallen for their spin and PT Barnum loved folks like you. :cry:

[Cyrano]

25. Never thought much of P.T. Barnum, however,

I always took to heart H.L. Menckens statement that "No one ever went broke by underestimating the intelligence of the American people."

Unfortunately, we're seeing the sewerage that resides in the White House once again proving Mencken to be prescient.

Nonetheless, I've not given up. An occasional temper tantrum is allowed. The difference between us and THEM is that we don't drown our tantrum throwers in the Potomac. (At least I didn't think we did.)

[merh]

27. But your occassional temper tantrum added to every other

opinated dem that is interviewed about the "shake up in the campaign", added to the story being run that the campaign is being restructured, added to the press saying can't organize a campaign can he run our country -- all add up to playing into the hands of the spin masters and make you a sucker for their game. IMHO

[DeadHead67]

31. You don't think the repukes complain, whine, etc.etc.. . . . .

. . .just go to Free Republic.com

[merh]

35. Those are not the repukes - those are crazed freepers.

The campaign repukes don't go on tv complaining about how Rove is handling the idiots campaign, they don't accept interviews to give their "wise opinions" about the campaign should be run. They put out a very organized and behind the candidate appearance so that they look like they know what they are doing and really believe in their candidate. :puke:

The media spins the campaigns and those on this forum that whine about how the campaign is being run (or by whom) just play into the spin masters' game.

Ignore the polls, ignore the media and canvass and campaign at home and spread the truth. A true grass roots effort will win this thing.

[johnnie]

37. That pic cracked me up

Just needed to say that....

[LittleClarkie]

52. 'allo Johnnie

Love the avatar.

Yep, that's about the size of it. Now they just need to add some Bush tears in there.

[Melodybe]

4. Maybe you should spend more time, telling people what is wrong with

Bush, instead of continuously harping on Kerry.

I didn't see you respond to either my post on Kerry's good ideas for healthcare, and his awesome speech for the guard yesterday.


If you want to believe the Saudi newsnetwork polling people, YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM!

Instead of worrying about Kerry so much why don't you register a few voters.

[Cyrano]

9. See post 8 above.

[Selwynn]

40. See post #39 below

[HamdenRice]

20. Kerry is right on issues but ...

he just isn't breaking through the media with his message. Almost all the average joes and janes are hearing about the campaign is swift boats, AWOL and CBS memo-gate.

I remember the real sense of excitement in 1992 when Clinton and Gore were on a roll, and their ideas were getting out even though the Republicans and media were constantly harping on "bimbo eruptions."

There is something wrong the the campaign or maybe the media is more controlled than it was 12 years ago. Or maybe Kerry doesn't have a war room to get his message out.

[Melodybe]

23. Kerry will never break through the media, that is point

If you are waiting for it, then we will loose for sure.

[pmbryant]

5. All this whining is going to look pretty silly

after Kerry wins the election.

Face it, we are up against the entire executive branch and the entire corporate media apparatus. Why do you assume we should be "up by 20 points right now"?

Get back to work. We are the ones who have to fight this fight. It is up to ALL of us to stay united. We need that energy that many spend sniping at Kerry directed against Bush and his regime.

Peter

[Cyrano]

11. See post 8 above.

[Selwynn]

42. See post #39 below

[LittleClarkie]

51. Yawp

LANDSLIDE!

Hee hee!

[democrat_patriot]

6. The slimy way they have run their campaign.

The news cutting away from every speech.

The effectiveness of their spin machine.

I am happy were not 10 points down.

Keep fighting, go volunteer, hang some signs around town, write 3 LTTE's.

[ClassWarrior]

7. I'm sure they're devestated.

~yawn~

(What have YOU done to help the campaign by the way? What's that I hear? Crickets chirping?...)

[Cyrano]

12. See post 8 above.

[Selwynn]

43. See post #39 below

[Tom_Foolery]

10. Kerry is on message...

and doing what needs to be done. If he had small crowds at all of his events, I'd be worried; but the crowds stretch as far as the eye can see. I never thought that Kerry would ever lead Bush by a huge margin. It's going to be close...again.

[merh]

16. Duh - like how goofy can folks be??? Do you think that

the weed that would be king's campaign hasn't had it's shake ups and reorganizations and re-alignment during the campaign???

THEY HAVE -- problem is the MEDIA hasn't covered it and made it a story and the repukes haven't freaked out every time it has happened.

If you cannot recognize the media spin and the reason for the spin (the repukes want the dems to be up in arms about it and concerned about it and see it as disorganization, et cetera) then you are being PLAYED BY THE REPUKES AND THE MEDIA!

Recognize the game they are playing and don't get caught up in it.

Don't be a sucker to their tactics - don't fall for their lies and their spin!

[Julien Sorel]

17. WOW

And don't tell me about the latest polls that came out. We should be ahead of these fascist bastards by 20 points right now and, if this campaign had been properly run, the American people would be screaming for jail time for BushCo.

What a credibility building paragraph. I'm convinced.

Screaming that Kerry should be up by 20 points does nothing except: establish the degree to which your own partisan filter has warped your perceptions; and two, rile up people here even more ignorant than yourself, and who might be suffering from similar misapprehensions.

Nixon beat McGovern by 20 or so, and Johnson beat Goldwater by a similar margin. Both were wartime incumbents with a relatively good economy at their backs, running against candidates who were perceived as being outside the mainstream. Other than that, you don't find 20 point wins.

OK, OK, you'll say, I was just engaging in hyperbole. Well, the reality is, that the country is pretty much evenly split, and has been since about 1990. Clinton beat Dole by only 8 points in 1996, and Clinton was a popular incumbent president with a giant economic wind at his back. Yet you think Kerry, a challenger against a "wartime" incumbent president, one with decent economic numbers from a historical standpoint, should be blowing him away?

Get a hold of yourself. You'll likely sleep better, your blood pressure will drop, and maybe you'll stop making hysterical posts filled with nonsensical assertions that fall apart in the face of electoral history.

[Cyrano]

22. Okay. Hysteria over. I'm back to work. Now, what are you doing to help?

[John Q. Citizen]

28. Cool!

[LittleClarkie]

57. I don't know about the rest of the country

But our campaign is moving out of "identification" phase and moving into "persuasion" phase. Some of the handout literature I've seen looks quite cool. I'm going to miss Saturday's canvassing, but I do my own little part here in suburban Bush country.

I had someone bow down and worship me today because I brought handsoap for the HQ men's bathroom. It don't take much.

[LittleClarkie]

53. So was there a shake up

Or are we talking about something that happened a couple weeks ago when Carville came bopping in.

Things are going well, folks.

[JI7]

58. and Clinton also never got 50 percent or more in both elections

and i STILL think clinton is one of the best politicians out there.

the only polls where Kerry had a huge clear majority consistently was when they asked if mccain was on the ticket with him as vp.

[MsTryska]

21. I thought the campaign jsut went through a shakeup like last week

it's getting shook up again?


what's going on?

[Nicholas_J]

24. Pure statistics make it impossible

For ANY democratic Candidate to be at least twenty points ahead of George Bush right now.

Give Bush's support by the religious right, it is surpsising that Kerry is running even with Bush. The American public is highly polarized, and to be honest. likely to be the most conservative electorate of any of the democracies of the industrialized West.

Over the last ten years, thew Repubican Party has grown to be much closer to 50 percent of the population and the percentages of party cross over voting on average have always been roughly around ten percent. At givent these factors it is highly unlikely that any candidate would have more than a five percent lead at best.

I am beginning to greatly distrust Gallop (or more, the people they are polling for) as their polls are greatly skewed in comparison to virtually every other pollster. Right now all other polls have Kerry and Bush virtually tied. Either Gallop has in some fashion unknown to the general public been bought out by someone with strong Republican interests, or the people they are polling for are directly telling them the results they expect and paying them a great deal to get those results.

There are more issues than Iraq driving this election. The religious right will be 100 percent behind Bush on the War in Iraq even if it was proven 100 percent that Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11, was proven conclusively that he got rid of every last WMD the day after the Gulf War, and proven that Osama conclusively would have overthrown Saddam himself. These people, who alone constitute 45 percent of the population are going to beleive that Iraq is justified because we are fighting those evil Muslims who do not beleive that Jesus died for our sins.

A case in point. I know a guy who runs his own rather sucessful business, Does very well. Is one of those 2 percenters who benefited from Bush's tax cuts. Totally rational calm guy. Becomes HYSTERICAL at the thought of anyone but Bush becoming president. Wildly so. I can make all of my points about Iraq, and he comes around to agreement. Prove that Bush has lied. He agrees. He keeps on saying, it you had children, you would feel differently. I kept thinking that the Bush support had something to do with safety from terrorism and such, but finally cane to realize that his whole thing was the social agenda. Anti-gay, anti abortion. He wants his kids safe from child groping gays. These ideas have spread strongly into a once rational population, The Catholic population, who used to most often support democrats has gone into evangelical territory. Try watching EWTN sometimes. They are doing stuff that parallels the political behaviour of the evangelicals, and in spite of statements to Catholics from high ranking church officials, these groups are very stringly pointing American Catholics in the direction of Bush. Check EWTN's web Q&A sometimes and you see a very strong push towards Bush almost strongly indicating that they beleive that voting for anyone but Bush should be an excommunicalble offense. The social issues are very powerful. Hearing the statements from many about the "towels heads" and that we have to get them before they get us, is something that I hear from otherwise rational friends. There is no telling them that 99.9 percent of Muslims have never so much as icked up a gun, much less a bomb, and it does not matter.

The fact that a greater percentage of people in the U.S. beleive that the war in Iraq was wrong does not matter. Enough beleive it was right, and for some pretty bizarre reasons. All about as close to the medieval reasons for the Crusades as anything else.

From the start, EVERY pundit staed that this election was going to be close clear to the end. They have been overwhelmingly correct.

The elecction in 2000 ran very closely as well Gore won the popular vote, but only by about 300,000 and that was considered a wide margin to win by. ANd that was only a few point ahead.

Now you tell me WHY you thing we should be twenty point ahead, There is very little historically to justify such a statement.

in 2000, after the convention, Gore was doing as crappy as Kerry was for a week or two. In 1976, Jimmy Carter was tanking very badly compared to Gerry Ford for several weeks after the Republican convention. There are several more critical events going on in the world right now that have a rather polarizing effect.

[Cyrano]

30. The 20 points ahead was hyperbole. And many of your points are well taken

However, in a rational world, would the modern day GOP even exist?

The fact that they do, and the fact that their duping a virtual majority most of the time, is what led to my rant. That, and the fact that a stand-up guy like Kerry hasn't really yet turned his boat into them and opened fire with every weapon available.

[Cartooner]

26. HERE, CYRANO... You need a good grin ... THIS OUGHTA DO IT.

DUBIOUS (THE NAKED TRUTH) part xi
'GOOM BAH"
a satirical series about EMPEROR GEORGE DUBIOUS BOTCH
based on Hans Christian Andersen's "The Emperor's New Suit"
by Cartooner

Karen the Vulgarian could tell the Emperor was NOW in for a rough time of it. The Emperor's newly vitiated military service RECORDS were beginning to turn up like BAD pennies from hell (in spite of the swirling controversy about forgery). As a result, close STATE'S races were proliferating all over the land. And now, all Karen had to do to invite another daylight nightmare was just relive the speech George Dubious Botch had recently given on one of the 'BATTLEGROUND' Indian reservations. Yes. Karen feared at the time it was a bad omen.

FLASHBACK:
The day had dawned clear and bright, and the entire Botch team along with many of their surrogate QUICK RESPONDERS were once again out on 'the trail'. Emperor George Dubious Botch's schedule had him campaigning on a Native American reservation. Dubious was being extra careful to READ the entire thing and eschew all ad-libbing, due to the 'boo boo' moment not so many speeches ago. Let us briefly take you there (as a courtesy reminder, of course).

FLASHBACK-BACK:
Dubious trying to 'go it alone' (i.e. OFF SCRIPT)
"We got an issue in America. Too many good docs are gettin' out of business. Too many O-B-G-Y-N's aren't able to practice their...their love with women all across this country."

FLASHFORWARDagain:
Meanwhile, back at the reservation: Throughout his whole speech, the Native American audience kept interrupting Dubious' speech with the chant "GOOM BAH, GOOM BAH, GOOM BAH!" ... With each next Dubious proclamation, their chant only got louder "GOOOM BAHHH!! GOOOM BAHHH!!! GOOOOOMMMMMMM BAHHHHH!!!!

Botch was thrilled and flattered (NOT TO SAY nearly sublimed, which is not the same as slimed) at such an overwhelming reaction, the likes of which he hadn't known even from his customary worshippers. And so it was throughout the speech, even unto a deafening cacophany (which was quite loud).

After the speech, the tribal Chief, paying homage to the leader of the free world, escorted Dubious around the reservation to see all the crops and livestock thereupon. Beautiful Black Angus beef cattle were everywhere to be seen.

As they were going through one of the pasture gates, however, the CHIEF suddenly HALTED, and let out a panicked cry... "ARRRGGGHHH!!!!" he said with special purpose. "BE CAREFUL!!!!... DON'T STEP IN THAT GOOM BAH!!!"

FLASHupTOthePRESENT:
Oh, somewhere in this favored land, his team resumes its fight;
His fans are ogling somewhere yelling, "He is right, right, right!"
And Richard's terrorizing with death threats: "There's NO DOUBT".
..............But there is no joy in Dubious:
............. SINCE HIS records have come out!!!
(special thanks and apologies to Ernest L. Thayer author of Casey at the Bat)

(If you'd like other episodes, let me know )

[Cyrano]

34. Cartooner. Thanks for the pick-me-up and the literate refernces.

[Teaser]

29. Get out of politics.

It's clear you can't handle it.

[Goldmund]

32. The bouncer! The bouncer!!

He's baaaaaack

[Cyrano]

33. Well, bouncer, I've had bad hair days. And I've even had days where

I've posted things that, after rereading them, made me feel like a screaming asshole.

[MsTryska]

36. So where

did you hear about today's shakeup?

and who is getting err...shook up, exactly?

[Cyrano]

38. The Washington Post

[MsTryska]

45. You mean this article?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A27272-2004Sep16.html



i thought this happened week before last, so i'm confused as to why they are jsut reporting it now. imo, it's what's been resposnible for the firecracker stump speeches and new taglines kerry's had this week.

[Selwynn]

39. No one cares.

If your fed up, then bow out. The rest of us will carry you kicking and screaming, whining and moaning on to where we need to go.

[Cyrano]

44. Your courage and words are inspiring.

I guess I really needed someone to carry me kicking, screaming and whining to where we need to go. (See post #8 above.)

Jeeez, they sure as hell could have used you at the Alamo. Or in Vietnam. Or in Iraq. What are you doing wasting your time on DU?

[MsTryska]

46. But why are you

pissing in people's cornflakes and then getting mad when they don't really wanna hear it?


i'm glad you've been pouring blood, sweat and tears into this campaign, keep up the good work, but don't try to infect others with whatever negativity you're feeling. maybe you need a rest from campaigning to recharge your batteries.

[Cyrano]

48. I' m not pissing on the efforts of anyone here.

I'm pissing on the people we're counting on to win this and for whom we're all knocking ourselves out. And if we're not allowed to complain and bitch from time to time, they have a name for that. It's called Republicans.

[MsTryska]

54. But using this sort of outlet

to complain and bitch pretty much infects other people, and is more demoralizing than anything else.


i mean how many times do people post whining about the latest polls, etc. if you lose you're attitude, you lose the battle.


and also this isn't a new shakeup - it happened a couple of weeks back, and i must say for the first time, Kerry is putting the gloves on and fighting the way he should. his speeches have been better, his attacks have been hard-hitting, and if anything, with this shakeup, i'm definitely feel even more confident.

[zulchzulu]

47. What are YOU doing to make a difference

Stop whining and let's start winning.

Get off your butt and volunteer if you aren't already. If all you have is negative shit to say, then get the hell out of the way and go to the back of the room. We have work to do.

[Cyrano]

50. See posting #8

[zulchzulu]

59. OK, but...

Are you in a swing state? I'm curious. By the way, thanks for your work...but we have a lot more work to do. And you can't get down over a poll here or a poll there. It's called poll crack. It means nothing now. A poll with a +/- MOE of 5% is freebase polling.

The race is even and will be very close this time. Getting Independents and Undecided as well as those just needing one more issue to switch to Kerry are who we should be focusing on.

[Cyrano]

60. I'm in Florida.

And if that's not enough of a reason to do everything to demolish Bush/Cheney/Rove, I don't know what is.

But occasionally, I do get weary.

[mzmolly]

49. What shake up? I am aware of previous rumors of a shake up ...

but that never occured. Now what's with the current shakeup rumor? I hadn't heard a thing. :shrug:

[MsTryska]

56. it was the shakeup from a couple of weeks ago

with carville and begala jumping on the bandwagon, and the rest of the clinton group...i'd posted a link to the washington post article a couple of posts above.

[Cyrano]

55. OKAY, DUers. YOU'VE BEAT ME TO A PULP.

Feel better? Does it make my original posting less valid? Am I now supposed to go throw myself upon the Gore/Dukakis/McGovern altar of martyrs?

Since when don't we have the right, and even duty, to bitch when those at the top of our party are screwing up? When the fuck did we become Republicans marching in goose step?

What I posted was not defeatism. It was a plain, good, old fashioned, bitch. It doesn't mean I'm not going to go out again tomorrow and break my ass to see that Kerry wins. It doesn't mean I've had a nervous breakdown. It doesn't mean I've thrown in the towel.

But the most surprising thing to me was how many of you want me to just shut up, be a good soldier and make believe that nothing needs fixing. My answer to that: Wake the fuck up. That's not supposed to be what we're about. And if it is what we're about, what makes us any different from the freepers?