what everybody seems to be missing in the "fake documents" story

[Nordic]

is that according to the 86 year old secretary, she DID type documents that said almost the exact same thing.

THOSE documents are real, those documents exist (somehow, somewhere) and if anyone could find THOSE documents, it would be end of discussion.

It seems everyone is missing this point, or does it just look that way to me?

The original documents DID exist and probably got destroyed by the Bush family.

That woman DID type memos saying EXACTLY what is in the memos in question.

[Avalux]

1. Are you sure?

I watched the interview and I can't recall she said she typed identical memos. She did say the CONTENT of the memos was in line with what Killian thought at the time. I think we need a transcript......

[aintitfunny]

4. According to CBS, She did

type up the same info herself
"Knox says she didn’t type these memos, but she says she did type ones that contained the same information. "

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/15/60II/main643768.shtml

[Avalux]

8. THANKS

Clears up that question for me. :hi:

[Nordic]

9. here's another quote:

“The information, yes,” says Knox. “It seems that somebody did see those memos, and then tried to reproduce and maybe changed them enough so that he wouldn’t get in trouble over it.”

The point being, memos that say almost exactly what these memos say DID exist and may still.

They were written by Killian, typed by Knox, and now nobody can find them. Hmmmmmmm

[Avalux]

13. The originals were destroyed

by Rove and Hughes. :shrug:

Perhaps Killian typed these memos for his own file (as backup) perhaps wary that the originals may disappear (and they did). Someone found Killian's and sent them to CBS. WHO?

[Hmmmmmm]

22. People ignoring the issue

People are still ignoring the issue that CBS based an entire story off of shotty information. Their credibility has been shot. Dan Rather's has as well, but we could see that coming.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

2. EGGG ZACTLY

and the lap dog press has yet to ask where they are...funny, eh?

[Nordic]

6. what's nice is that Dan Rather's ego will not let this die

the man has an enormous ego and they've mussed his hair. He's gonna be all over this.

HA!

[LiberalFighter]

18. Rather has the right type of ego!!!

[sui generis]

3. I think the real point everyone is missing is this:

IF they're forgeries, I'm going to guess they're planted by Rove. It's perfectly Rovian to create a fake document and use its exposure as a fake to discredit all arguments on the subject.

Using fake documents is not a dem tactic, especially when the preponderance of known facts point to dumbya being AWOL without the use of fakery.

[goju]

5. The problem

the problem is that its the word of one woman, a Democrat who has expressed her displeasure with bushy, and the original documents are no where to be found.

Until those documents are found, this story is going nowhere. The story cant hurt Kerry, it can only help. I just choose to ignore it until they find the real documents, and they will. Why get upset over cbs' problem? They will straighten it out in due time.

[rocktivity]

7. There is STILL no reason to believe they're fake

Within 24 hours of all the "experts" declaring to high heaven that there was no possible way on God's green earth the documents were typed in the early Seventies, THEY were debunked! It turns out that typewriters with porportional fonts and special superscript characters have been around since the Sixties, and the typeface in question has been around since the Thirties!

:headbang:
rocknation

[Union Thug]

11. Right, and the debunking has largely gone unreported.

All i hear are "Questionable" and "very likely forgeries"...

But no one ever seems to mention the thorough debunking of those that claim the docs are forged.

The bottom line is that bush needs to answer the questions that these documents have raised. I think that's where we take it next. Let them piss all over themselves about authenticity. The red meat is in the content.

[aintitfunny]

10. Distraction, Distraction, Distraction

Why focus on the truth when forging of documents becomes the "real" story? It has proven to be a successful ploy. The continually forceful representation that the documents are "without doubt" fake, just leads the easily led to believe that they lack veracity as well. Ergo, Bush did his duty, was honorably discharged and is indeed the saint he is portrayed to be by the RNC, Neo-cons and the "liberal" press.

[RoyalWickedness]

12. Yes, she did say exactly that

Which leads me to think that quite possibly, Dan Rather's next bombshell will be this secretary's own personal CYA file containing the memos she DID type. I was a secretary for ten years, before I got laid off (thanks, Shrub), and ALWAYS kept a copy of anything I typed for my boss.

[A_Possum]

15. Could be you're right

Without knowing the source of the copies, there's no way to really judge whether they are fakes. Knowing the source, as CBS does, makes a huge difference in the ability to judge their authenticity, and while we have guesses at the source, we don't know for sure.

The strongest evidence that they were faked is the secretary's opinion, which carries considerable weight. I think the very weakest evidence is all this "they were done on MS Word" baloney. For that, we have to believe that not only was an authentic signature available to copy, while the original memos weren't, but that after the Word document was created, letters were moved by picas off the baseline, randomly contorted in the same way a typewriter would do (top and bottom of letters) spaces changed, superscripts changed, typeface reproduced--and this was done to 5 different memos, all from memory of the originals. I don't buy that either. IF someone had the originals, why would they go to all that trouble? And if they DIDN'T have the originals, that's a lot of very very sophisticated faking using a word processor.

Maybe--maybe--Rove could come up with that professional a document forger. That's a possibility. But I sure don't see someone like Burkett being able to do it from memory.

I think the source is someone else besides Burkett.

[Nordic]

16. when I worked as a typist for the military, we made 6 - 10 copies of

everything. They often went to strange places. In the procurement office, we would make 10 copies of any purchase order, and one copy would go to the chaplain's office for some bizarre reason

[LiberalFighter]

19. Chaplain's office???

I wonder who had that stupid idea!!


As for the 6 - 10 copies... shouldn't that suggest that there are other copies floating around somewhere of official documents relating to gw*s stint in TANG?

[zbdent]

14. "Real Documents, Fake

pResident"

[mbali]

17. Notice that 60 Minutes did not show Rather asking her where the originals

might be? It's a logical question, one that a newsman of Rather's caliber would certainly ask. The only reason not to ask is that he already knows where they are. . .

[LiberalFighter]

20. I am waiting for DR to drop another bomb on gw*

[CBHagman]

21. Yeah, the media is hammering the forgery story into people's heads...

...and ignoring the content question. People will just think, "Oh, they're fake," not "Bush was an overprivileged shirker."