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You know, Bush LOST that debate with Gore. He LOST the election.

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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 12:17 PM
Original message
You know, Bush LOST that debate with Gore. He LOST the election.
Edited on Thu Sep-30-04 12:32 PM by bigtree

Tonight we'll watch Bush lose again, this time to our impressive candidate who is tanned, rested, and ready to kick that counterfeit loser's ass back to Crawford (if they still want him).

I like all of the images of John that I have watched throughout the campaign, whether snowboarding or imploring his colleagues on the Senate floor, whether windsurfing or listening to working Americans on front porches around the nation, whether he was in full hockey gear, gliding around the rink like an ice dancer or standing with his band of brothers who have maintained their loyalty and admiration for him all of these years since their deadly duty in Vietnam.

Who stands with Bush? A shallow, scared crowd made to fear each other, and encouraged by the counterfeit loser to scramble for the few scraps of commerce left in the wake of their corporate cabal's hijacking of our hard earned contributions, through no-bid contracts through the Pentagon and other areas of government; to tax breaks weighted to the wealthiest 1% of Americans. Divide and conquer, the adage goes. And so goes the Bush presidency.

But, we have the real deal in John Kerry. A true uniter. A real fighter, who has been on our side for decades: from his leadership as a Swift boat commander in the bloody Vietnam war, from his leadership in Iran-contra investigations, to his leadership fighting for victims rights as a prosecutor, to his 19 years on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, to his fights to help protect and preserve the environment.

His finest moment came during his testimony in 1971 before the Senate Foreign Relation's Committee:

"Finally, this administration has done us the ultimate dishonor," he spoke. They have attempted to disown us and the sacrifices we made for this country. In their blindness and fear they have tried to deny that we are veterans or that we served in Nam. We do not need their testimony. Our own scars and stumps of limbs are witness enough for others and for ourselves. We wish that a merciful God could wipe away our own memories of that service as easily as this Administration has wiped away their memories of us. But all that they have done and all that they can do by this denial is to make more clear than ever our own determination to undertake one last mission-to search out and destroy the last vestige of this barbaric war, to pacify our own hearts, to conquer the hate and the fear that have driven this country these last ten years and more, so when thirty years from now our brothers go down the street without a leg, without an arm, or a face, and small boys ask why, we will be able to say "Vietnam" and not mean a desert, not a filthy obscene memory, but mean instead the place where America finally turned and where soldiers like us helped it in the turning."

John embraces and masters every challenge he faces, bringing out the best in himself and those around him. This a glimpse from 'The American Windsurfer':

John Kerry waded upwind at the event Site in Hood River, Oregon. It was mid-afternoon and the Senator had been struggling with unfamiliar equipment in an unfamiliar territory since 9:00 AM. As far as the windsurfers on the Columbia River Gorge were concerned, Kerry was just another ordinary windsurfer trying to find balance in the shifting winds of the day. With him were Olympic champion Mike Gebhardt and Sam Grossman, a windsurfing friend who flew in with the Senator that morning. It takes an average windsurfer a day or two to acclimate themselves to the Gorge's extreme conditions. John Kerry did not have that luxury. Gebhardt, a three time Olympic Champion, sailed with the Senator all morning, barking instructions at him. Later in the afternoon, Gebhardt and I rested on the bank watching Kerry drag his equipment up wind for the umpteenth time- we marveled at the man's endurance. "You know, not many people from his position of power and wealth would put up with this kind of humiliation," said Gebhardt to me. "You really feel stupid having someone like me yelling instructions at you. It's degrading, you feel like a school kid . . .This sport is incredibly humbling and it's great to see a guy like that out there trying! Really impressive!" When we bade farewell that afternoon, Kerry's exuberance was unmistakable. With a youthful dragon-slayer's delight written all over his face, John Kerry made me feel like I'd just witnessed the best day of his life. However humbling or frustrating it may be, this man clearly thrives on challenges, has the capacity to endure, and can elevate his skills to match the foe.
http://www.americanwindsurfer.com/mag/back/issue5.5a.html

I am constantly impressed by this man. He has overcome even the cancer that threatened to destroy him and I am confident that he has the resolve to rid us of our own cancerous regime that grows out of the White house. Onward to the next battle John! Victory is at hand!
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Demi_Babe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
1. Victory is at hand indeed
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tokenlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
2. I've always thought Gore beat Bush silly--
--but what the hell do I know???

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ProfessorPlum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. Everyone thought Gore beat Bush silly
But then the presstitutes decided that Gore sighing was the biggest story of the night. You would sigh too if your opponent couldn't even speak truthfully about his own health care plan - and wouldn't admit you were right about it, after repeatedly trying to get it through his thick skull. Then the media whores just out and out declared Bush the winner, even though instant polls showed Gore pummeled him in real time.

Now, we have Tavis Smiley telling Bill Richardson that "Bush beat Gore in the debates on style" on TV, and neither of them know the real story. History is being re-written before our very eyes.

Bob Somerby at the Daily Howler has extensive files on all of this, and has been highlighting them all week.

What a world, what a world . . .
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goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
3. indeed
I've been pointing this out a lot lately.
Kerry will win tonight and on Nov 2 regardless of what media says.
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Joylaughter Donating Member (498 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
4. Gore beat Bush
But the media told us not to believe our eyes. Gore won the election but the media was calling him a sore loser before the Supremes crowned * king. Gore rolled over and we were told by th media to "Get over it". The eventual recounts tell us time and again that Gore won FL but the media tells us we're conspiracy nuts. The media mind washing machine - Brainwashing-ton . Now who you gonna belive, your own two eyes or Tweety?
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RobinA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #4
20. I Want to Know
when this switched. I thought the spin at the time was that Gore won on points but Bush came across better. When did it become that Bush won all the debates? It's the freakin' Twilight Zone. Under no spin at the time, and I'm talking SPIN here, did Bush win all 2000 debates.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. Media
CNN Transcript - Crossfire: Who Won the First Presidential Debate? - October 4, 2000
http://www-cgi.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0010/04/cf.00.html

ABCNEWS.com : Chat Transcript: Debate Analysis with Sam Donaldson and David Gergen
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/DailyNews/001003_postdebate_chat.html

Internet Broadcasting Systems - Bush-Gore Match: Jabs But No Killer Blows
http://html.ibsys.com/sh/election2000/stories/election2000-20001003-113623.html
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4morewars Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
5. Nice post !!
I have met and spoke with John Kerry. I am hoping that, not only will he throw these poseurs out of the Whitehouse, but into a prison cell, to spend the rest of their days, for crimes against humanity.
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dogtag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
6. Love the Columbia Gorge windsufing story -
it really shows the real man he is. It just kills me when I hear scum like Chris Matthews describe Shrub as athletic and John Kerry as some sort of couch potato!!! WTF? It goes to show just how thick the media slime really is. John Kerry is such an all around sportsman, the mind boggles. Shrub can't stay upright on a bike. If Kerry is credited at all, they intimate that he only does elite individual sports and skip over the team hockey, etc. How does this story not get reported? Beats the hell out of me.
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life_long_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
8. Crawford doesn't want him- must read
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dolstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
9. Stop whining -- Bush got the spoils, therefore he's the victor
Coulda, woulda, shoulda. Boo f*cking hoo.

So you think Gore got more votes in Florida? You're probably right. But so what? Unless you've discovered the secret to time travel, there's not a damn thing you can do to change the fact that Bush, not Gore, has been president for the past four years.
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shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. BUT we CAN help prevent it from
happening again.
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goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. perhaps the point is that the sky is not falling
I didn't detect any whining in the main post.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. ?
It may be, sir, that the politicians of the United States are not so fastidious as some gentlemen are, as to disclosing the principles on which they act. They boldly preach what they practise. When they are contending for victory, they avow their intention of enjoying the fruits of it. If they are defeated, they expect to retire from office. If they are successful, they claim, as a matter of right, the advantages of success. They see nothing wrong in the rule, that to the victor belong the spoils of the enemy.

Marcy William Learned (1786–1857), the author of the quote:

headed a conservative faction of the Democratic party in New York state in the 1840s called the Hunkers, so named because they were supposed to “hanker” or “hunker” after office. In opposition to them stood the radical Democrats, or Barnburners. The Hunkers favored internal improvements and liberal chartering of state banks; they opposed antislavery agitation. They generally controlled the party machinery and the patronage. In the 1846 gubernatorial nomination they turned against the Democratic candidate, Gov. Silas Wright, a Barnburner. The Barnburners retorted in kind by voting for and supporting the Free-Soil ticket in the 1848 presidential election, which thereby went to the Whig candidate, Zachary Taylor. Those Barnburners who did not persist in their antislavery views were welcomed back to the party fold in 1850. The Hunkers themselves, however, subsequently divided into the “Softs” led by William L. Marcy and Horatio Seymour, who supported President Pierce, and the “Hards” led by Daniel S. Dickinson, who did not give up their antislavery principles and who opposed Pierce.

http://www.bartleby.com/65/hu/Hunkers.html
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VOX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. I hear no whining here. This is a positive thread about Kerry.
And there are plenty of damn things we can do to change the fact that *, who has been pResident for the past four years, will NOT be pResident for the next four.
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Mad_Dem_X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
12. What an awesome post!
I, too, am proud that we have John Kerry on our side. Hed is true American, a true fighter...and by no means a "poser."
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ladjf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
15. I respect Gore but I don't thin he performed well in the debates.
For one thing, instead of answering the questions, he mostly gave snippets from his campaign speech. I expect that Kerry will do better than that.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. GORE:
GORE: "I think we ought to attack our country's problems, not attack each other. I want to spend my time making this country even better than it is, not trying to make you out to be a bad person. You may want to focus on scandal. I want to focus on results. As I said a couple of months ago, I stand here as my own man and I want you to see me for who I really am. Tipper and I have been married for 30 years. We became grandparents a year-and-a-half ago. We've got four children. I have devoted 24 years of my life to public service and I've said this before and I'll say it again, if you entrust me with the presidency, I may not be the most exciting politician, but I will work hard for you every day. I will fight for middle-class families and working men and women and I will never let you down."

http://www.debates.org/pages/trans2000a.html
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ladjf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. He's a great American. He just didn't seem to be able to get
much traction during 2000 debates.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. He got enough traction to defy the polls that showed Bush ahead,
got enough votes in Florida to win, and bested Bush in the popular vote as well. Must have done sumpthin right.
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ladjf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. Did a lot of things right. I voted for him.
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John_H Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
16. Will our talkers fight tonight, or just meekly spin?
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
17. Got this in the mail - DNC sent it - but it makes sense anyway:

Tonight, don't let George Bush's henchmen steal another
victory. We need your online help immediately after the debate, so save this
email, print it out, and have it ready with you as you watch the first
Presidential debate tonight.

We all know what happened in 2000. Al Gore won the first
debate on the issues, but Republicans stole the post-debate spin. We are not
going to let that happen again, and you will play a big role.

Immediately after the debate, we need you to do three
things: vote in online polls, write a letter to the editor, and call in to talk
radio programs. Your 10 minutes of activism following the debate can make the
difference.

Vote
National and local news organizations will be conducting
online polls during and after the debate asking for readers' opinions. Look for
online polls at these national news websites, and make sure to vote in every
one of them:

a.. ABC News: http://www.abcnews.com/
b.. CBS News: http://www.cbsnews.com/
c.. CNN: http://www.cnn.com/
d.. Fox News: http://www.foxnews.com/
e.. MSNBC: http://www.msnbc.com/
f.. USA Today: http://www.usatoday.com/
And be sure to check the websites of your local newspapers
and TV stations for online polls. It is crucial that you do this in the
minutes immediately following the debate.

Write
Immediately after the debate, go online and write a letter
to the editor of your local paper. If you feel John Kerry commanded the debate
and had a clear plan for fixing the mess in Iraq, put it in your letter. If
you feel George Bush dodged tough questions on Iraq and didn't level with
voters, put it in your letter.

With just a few clicks, you can write your letter at our
online media center:

http://www.democrats.org/media/

Call
Do you listen to national or local call-in shows on the
radio? How about on TV? Call them and let them know what you thought of John
Kerry's plan to keep America secure and George Bush's continuing refusal to admit
the truth about his record.

Here are some national shows to get you started. (All times
are Eastern.)

a.. Air America (all day): 646-274-2346
b.. Alan Colmes (10 a.m. to 1 p.m.): 212-301-5900
c.. Ed Shultz (3 p.m. to 6 p.m.): 701-232-1525
d.. Bev Smith (7 p.m. to 10 p.m.): 412-325-4197
e.. Doug Stephen (5 a.m. 10 a.m.): 1-800-510-8255
Find shows in your area on our media website:

http://www.democrats.org/media/find.html

Your actions immediately after the debate tonight can help
John Kerry win on November 2. Make your voice heard!

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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
21. We can't afford another 'win' like 2000
Gore definitely made better debating points in 2000. But he came off like a jerk and turned off some people.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. The image of Bush at Jim Jones University that summer did it for me
Bush was the jerk on that stage, not our dedicated nominee, Vice President Gore. who gave a complete, comprehensive outline of his plans and philosophy . Bush, on the other hand resorted to silly attacks (fuzzy math), and refused to own up to his own failures in Texas. Gore was Clinton's partner in the administration that oversaw and engineered the country's greatest economic expansion in history, with an unprecedented period of relative peace around the world and security at home.

No contest.
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