The global test twist - arrgghhh.

[Morning Dew]

I understood what Kerry meant about being able to act preemptively and having the goods to back it up afterward. Didn't you? Didn't anyone who paid any attention ?

Now, over and over, I'm hearing the tired old phrases about allowing other countries veto power over our policies...

This issue needs serious rebuttal from our talking heads.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

1. Right.....

All Kerry is saying is that United States should have the evidence to justify their actions.....


Who in their right mind would say you should take action that couldn't be justified?

[KittyWampus]

9. Indeed, It's All About LEGITAMACY & RULE OF LAW

neither of which is the NeoCon strong suit.

Kerry, as an ex-Prosecutor knows the importance of having the Law backing you up.

[flpoljunkie]

2. Because of Bush's inept, pre-emptive war in Iraq, we have lost credibility

in the world, and the legitimacy necessary to conduct successful foreign policy.

Bush and his minions have proven themselves to not only inept, but corrupt.

As James Carville might say, "It's the incompetency, stupid!"

[StClone]

3. Product of Minds seeking any avenue.

To discredit Kerry. They reach, twist. distort and lie, lie, lie.

[rucky]

4. If you want to reform the UN

you have to participate in it.

[kerryin2004]

5. If they're to stupid to understand what Kerry meant.

They're too stupid to listen to..Why do I need to rebuttal an asinine talking point that is totally misrepresenting what he said??

[shockingelk]

6. That's what I've done

I've just asked whoever brought it up to tell me what they thought Kerry meant. They know what he meant, but just like to say they think he meant something else.

[ClassWarrior]

7. They understood perfectly well what he meant.

As you said, they're just trying to twist it. Don't dignify their talking point by addressing it. Just ignore it.

23.

[Warren DeMontague]

12. We need to be able to shoot this crap down on sight.

I beg to differ, but the attitude of "not dignifying" the Swift Boat Charges was a big-ass blunder, IMHO.

Let's address, debunk, and then move on.

[roseBudd]

13. Don't ignore it if it appears in an LTTE, write your own LTTE

refuting the twisting of the meaning

[leftyandproud]

8. We SHOULD need UN approval

What's wrong with saying that?

[Warren DeMontague]

11. That's not what he said.

He did not cede the right for the United States to act unilaterally; he only said that if and when we take that incredibly major step, we better be damn sure we have our ducks in a row in terms of proving it is a legitimate, justifiable action.

[Warren DeMontague]

10. This is the meme: lets be prepared to debunk it clearly this time.

Here's the context for the so-called "global test" The 'test' isn't whether or not we should take pre-emptive action, it is whether or not the rationale for that action will stand up to scrutiny; dometstic as well as abroad. It's whether or not we are lying about the reasons for the action-- not whether or not we're "allowed" to do it.

Let's put it this way. The "global test" is like a test to see if the meat is rotten once you've bought it.. not whether or not you should go to the store.

Here's the context:

No president, though all of American history, has ever ceded, and nor would I, the right to preempt in any way necessary to protect the United States of America.

But if and when you do it, Jim, you have to do it in a way that passes the test, that passes the global test where your countrymen, your people understand fully why you're doing what you're doing and you can prove to the world that you did it for legitimate reasons.

Here we have our own secretary of state who has had to apologize to the world for the presentation he made to the United Nations.

KERRY: I mean, we can remember when President Kennedy in the Cuban missile crisis sent his secretary of state to Paris to meet with DeGaulle. And in the middle of the discussion, to tell them about the missiles in Cuba, he said, "Here, let me show you the photos." And DeGaulle waved them off and said, "No, no, no, no. The word of the president of the United States is good enough for me."

How many leaders in the world today would respond to us, as a result of what we've done, in that way? So what is at test here is the credibility of the United States of America and how we lead the world. And Iran and Iraq are now more dangerous -- Iran and North Korea are now more dangerous.