The Election Fraud Issue as it relates to Iowa...

[CoffeeCat]

Hi everyone,

I was a loyal Kerry supporter and I'm wondering where Iowans are on the issue of election fraud.

Do most in the Democratic party believe that fraud happened?

If so, is anyone protesting or doing anything about it?

Also, it appears that there will be protests in DC on 1/06--when Conyers appears before Congress to contest the election.

Are Iowans planning on protesting in DC as well?

I'm very interested in finding out what Iowa Dems are doing--and how they are feeling--about the election-fraud issue.

I'm in the Des Moines area.

[Bluzmann57]

1. Welcome to DU from a fellow Iowan

I'm in Davenport and around here, I feel that the election was clean. I do believe that in other parts of the country, Ohio and Florida in particular, that there may have been something shady going on.
As far as my personal schedule is concerned, I can't afford to travel at this time, due in part to the failing economy, so no going to D.C. to protest. There has been no mention around here about protests or fraud. There is a growing sentiment that we need to re-organize and come out swinging before 2006 though. As you probably know, there is a Gubernatorial election in 2006 and Governor Vilsack has stated that he isn't going to seek re-election so it appears to be Nussle's race to lose, if he does indeed run. We can't allow this to happen. We Democrats MUST field a candidate who can defeat Nussle and send him back to whatever hidey hole he crawled out of. And there are rumors afloat that the RNC is targeting our state in '06 to get a republican in office.

[CoffeeCat]

2. Thanks for the welcome...

I agree with you about 2006. I think it's important to look forward, especially with the Gubernatorial election.

I hear Chet Culver's name kicked around as a potential Dem candidate. I think he's exceptional. He's articulate and well known.

As for the election fraud issue--I've been trying to read as much as I can. From what I understand widespread fraud did happen. I have no knowledge of it happening in Iowa.

I know that Dem Congressman John Conyers will be contesting the presidential election when Congress certifies the election on 1/06. For the election to be fully contested, Conyers will need at least one Senator.

For all of us who saw Fahrenheit 9-11...we know that in 2000 not one Senator stepped forward. 2004 appears to be very different.

Conyers said in a recent interview that he has Senators. If this is true, it's monumental news. The entire election will be thrown and the House and Senate will vote and determine the outcome. If widespread, verified and prima fascea fraud is demonstrated--this puts Republicans in a pickle--do I vote for a fraudulent president or not?

If all of this shapes up to be the truth--I would like to go to DC on 1/6. I don't care if I have to sell my soul on Ebay!! I'll find a way to go.

I'm very interested in others' thoughts or opinions.

[m.standridge]

3. You must have been reading my mind!

I'm in Arkansas, and I keep wondering about things here. We had a powerf failure on election day and there was a vote discrepancy in a statewide US House race here of over 57,000 votes, just in two of the largest counties, not including the other 75.
The Sec'y of State here has been very late getting everything tabulated because of various errors and discrepancies found. I keep wondering if something like what happened in Ohio with a lower level Democrat getting votes from Kerry's columns.
I wouldn't wonder so much, but for the fact that AR was the only Southern state besides FL where Kerry led Bush in pre-election polls.
Also, like in LA, NC, VA and FL, Bush was seldom above a Plurality or 50% here even when he led.
But what I keep thinking about, is that it might give a "third" route for the Kerry people, if we had some combination of states to look at besides just Ohio--or Florida.
Interestingly, Iowa was close, as was New Mexico and so was Nevada.
AR is 6 Electoral votes, Iowa is 7, plus either of the other two above, with five Electoral votes each, would bring Kerry to 270 Electoral votes.
Also, Colorado was close, and there were some things about it, too, with 9 Electoral votes. Colorado with Nevada and New Mexico is also over 270 Electoral votes for Kerry.
So, I was just trying to think out how realistic it might be, in the time contraints we have, to try to look at this.
Also, I know we know there were problems with at least 5 of the 7 Senate races, and some people say the exit polls were skewed quite a bit at the Senate level, as well as at the Presidential.
But with so many, and with the tight time constraints, most people thought it was more realistic, I guess, to just focus on the one, the Presidential, in the one state, Ohio
But I've wracked my brain, trying to think of something to do here.
When Clinton came in for Kerry, toward the end, the polls here in AR really tightened up. On election day, our local CBS TV affilaite, KTHV in Little Rock, said the race was as close as 48-48, based on pre-election polling by SurveyUSA for the station. Tney'd noted that the graphic was Bush at just below 50%, with Kerry just above 46%, with the Kerry moving rapidly up, and Bush moving down. And, with Clinton coming in, Kerry seemed to have finally broken 48% here. Female voters, who'd been more lackluster about Kerry, seemed to be more for him in the wake of Clinton. Some indication that women who'd said they were "Undecided" and "unlikely" to vote, had moved to "likely" and "for Kerry' in those final 12 hours. This MAY have been missed by exit polling, and Clinton is popular in precisely those areas of the state--the western part--where the Dems need the most help against W Bush.
But AR wouldn't help, even if it turned around here or something, without at least two other states--either IA and NV or NM, or CO and IA or CO and NV or NM. Or, again, some combination w/o AR.
Just would like to hear--like you--as to whether there's any activity in IA.
Best for holidays from Little Rock.

[CoffeeCat]

4. Hello Little Rock..

Hi there,

It sounds like we're feeling the same things. I think many people who question the election-fraud issue start wondering what's cooking in their own backyard.

You know...I remember looking very closely at the electoral map and keeping tabs on it, during election week. You are right! It was a very tightening race and the numbers seemed to trend toward Kerry. I remember seeing the 48/48 poll and being amazed! Kerry seemed to be gaining in Southern states, that most would have assumed were easy Bush wins.

It's interesting that you mention specific anomalies that happened in Ark. I know that strange things happened in Iowa too. I was just reading on this board about a bunch of absentee ballots that were found--uncounted! Also, I remember seeing Chet Culver on the news, the day of the election. He was discussing the shortage of voting machines in Ames--a college town which would have a high number of Dem votes. The shortage of voting machines in Ohio definitely looks like it was deliberate. So you wonder...was this stuff going on all over? Or...is there always a certain amount of strange election-day funny business that happens? Some of it could be innocent mistakes as well.

It's a good sign that we've plugged into the national issue of election fraud--and we're now wondering what's going on in our local areas.

I wish the media would cover the issue! I'm tired of trying to sift through documents, lawsuits and raw information--without any clarity from the media. I'm sure that will all change very soon, though.

If Conyers has willing senators who will not certify this vote--that's all we'll be reading about.

Happy holidays to you too!

[Stevepol]

5. How can anyone tell you the answer to your question?

You can ck it for yourself. The exit polls were probably very close to the actual (real) vote percentage. If the so-called actual vote count differed from that by a significant amount in Bush's direction, it's quite likely the machines had an impact, and here I mean the optical scanners and/or the central tabulators. I believe they have a built-in tilt to the Rebups. How it's done I don't know, very possibly, as a recent post in DU suggested, by having the "default" go for Bush in all cases of voter under- or over-votes. A 1% or 2% tilt for Bush is all it takes to skew the results and throw the election. That's what this is about IMO: small increments in almost every state that uses electronic voting machines of any kind and/or central tabulators that are programmed at ES&S or Diebold or Sequois, etc.

[CoffeeCat]

7. Thanks Steve---

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the info. Like you, I agree that the Iowa vote is most likely sound. With an honest Democratic governor and SOS, it would be difficult for the Reps to pull off fraud in Iowa.

I'm mainly wondering how Iowans view the issue of election fraud--on a national level--in the 2004 race. I know there is a ton of concern from around the country on these matters. So, I'm wondering if Iowa Democratic groups or individual Democrats from Iowa--are concerned about Ohio, Fla and the countless other stories about 2004 election fraud.

I am considering a trip to DC on 1/06--to show my lack of support for the vote. The vote is certified on this date, and John Conyers (D-MI) will be protesting the certification and word has it that at least one senator will formally join him to protest the election results and refuse to certify the vote. If Conyers and at least one senator protests the vote--the election is thrown out and the vote for president goes to the House and Senate for a vote.

Of course the Republican tilt means a Bush win. However, it appears that Conyers has some pretty solid fraud evidence. Investigations have been ongoing for weeks. If his case is solid and overwhelming, it may put Republicans in a precarios position--do I vote for a fraudulent election or not? Things could get interesting.

I'm wondering if my fellow Iowans/Democrats are plugged into these happenings. I'd like to know their opinion about all of this. Do most Iowans believe the presidential elections were fair and legit?

I know many on the general DU boards are planning trips to DC for the 1/6 certification. I was also wondering if any Iowans are planning on making the trip as well.

Again, thanks for your comments Steve and I look forward to discussing these issues with other Iowa Dems.

[HuskiesHowls]

6. Another welcome!!

I'm in the Des Moines area, too....out west.

As far as 2006 goes, I would definitely support Chet Culver for governor. We do need to keep a Democrat as governor. Robert Ray didn't hurt the state, but his successor REALLY screwed things up...and of course Vilsack gets stuck with it!!

Tom Miller, if he is interested, would not be a bad choice either. He's done a lot of good for the state, and does try to make sure the little people don't get hurt.

I've seen some other names bandied about here, but haven't heard anything in the MSM about it (although I don't watch much tv or read many papers since Michael Gartner got out of the newspaper business).

As far as fraud in Iowa goes, I don't think it really occurred. Remember that Culver refused to report results in Iowa (on Nov 2) because of problems in one county. In checking for online reports, I haven't found any precinct by precinct results yet. I've found county reports, and I do know that Story County uses touch-screen machines, and they went for Kerry.

I have a feeling that it was pretty clean and straightforward counting here in the state.

In the words of Zappa: "It can't happen here..."

[m.standridge]

8. Well our SOS here in AR is a Dem

and I don't think anything would have been done at the upper state office level. It's all this about those techs up in OH coming in and turning off computers, that's made me wonder
We had a power failure in LR on election day, and it shut down some computers for awhile, as well as displacing voters who couldn't use polling places.
Did techs have to come in and "reboot" to "fix" the computers? What was the real story behind the power failure. I have the local media story--a "private contractor" hit a gas line, which set off an explosion.
Not clear--a small operation. A big intersection was shut down.
Thanksgiving issue of Demo-Gazette says SOS was having to run way past deadline to get everything tabulated accurately.
Then, in the last 72 hours, Clinton was here in the state, campaigning for Kerry, and it really started to tighten up. Clinton is big potatoes here in AR, obviously, so it was significant here.
AR was the only southern state besides FL where Kerry led Bush in pre-election polls, too, and this was even before Clinton got active for Kerry here. Gen. Clark had an impact on a lot of people's respect for W. during the primaries, and we have a sizable disabled vet population here.
They found at least 57,000 votes in error in a statewide US House race, involving Vic Snyder. And that was in just two counties. They were up into December getting everything up on the state's website, due to human tabulation errors, according to above Demo-Gaz. article.
What would have happened, if anything happened, would have been the Ohio kind of thing--techs who were working at the computer company level, looking after their candidates or companies. Not state people, but people who work for the private computer companies. IF so, the power failure incident would have been contrived, to get them an excuse to get in the door and "reboot."
Nothing at all is being said about this in the local media, so I'm not saying it happened. But Bush was in Pluralities even when he was in a lead here.

It would have to be the kind of thing that Blackboxvoting.org looks into, and I don't think a recount, per se, would reveal a change.

[ISUGRADIA]

9. A correction: Story County uses paper ballots on accuvote tabulators

not touch screens.