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indy_azcat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 10:05 AM
Original message
A UM Students' Opinion: A call to surrender
Any students/or alums up for a LTTE?

This was in today's Univ. of Mich. Daily Newspaper. We Ann Arbor types are pretty darn liberal, but I get the feeling that this is actually reflective of the mood on campus.

http://www.michigandaily.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2004/11/18/419c8f463fce3
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dewaldd Donating Member (185 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
1. Never. Someone should send him Bev's book.
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hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Why, it's ovious
that he won't bother to read it
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indy_azcat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #1
14. A student's response...
http://www.michigandaily.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2004/11/18/419c8f463fce3

A ‘closer look’ at election results still necessary

To the Daily:

Joel Hoard’s column (A call to surrender, 11/18/2004) makes several very valid points that anyone left of evangelical fundamentalism should take to heart when deciding what to do now. He rightly criticizes the “whining” of the past four years, advocating an honest evaluation of the current state of affairs in the country. The outcome on Nov. 2 proved that many of us need to rethink our perception of the “American people” and how to effectively communicate liberal and progressive ideals. However, to move forward without properly acknowledging the injustices of the recent past would not only be wrong, it would limit our ability to truly understand the nature of the problems we face.

As an Election Protection coordinator in Detroit, I saw and heard things that defied any of my expectations. Republican “challengers” were not simply a nuisance, nor were they serving to strengthen the system, as they claimed. Challengers in Detroit, paid $10 an hour, were told to challenge any and every voter that could possibly be convinced not to vote. This they did with malicious vigilance. In some polling places, they physically removed voters; in others, they took advantage of Spanish-speaking voters, convincing them they must speak English to vote and in perhaps the most deplorable example, challengers donned official Election Protection shirts and stood outside a polling location saying it was closed.

All of the above are unquestionable violations of state and federal law and reveal an acutely flawed system. As for Ohio, the Libertarian and Green parties have joined forces in asking for a recount, showing that the Ohio outcry is not simply partisan denial. With as many as 250,000 provisional and discarded ballots in question in a state where Bush won by little over 130,000 votes, I think a closer look is worth it. I need not say that those ballots come from precincts that overwhelmingly supported John Kerry.

International monitors have said that this election fell farther below standards for fairness than the notorious 2000 vote. In addition to disenfranchisement, failure of electronic voting and computerized ballot tabulation machines has been widespread. As a country that parades its vision of “democracy” abroad, it is somewhat embarrassing that we cannot even live up to the very basic standards of that concept at home. It is our duty to make sure the results are beyond doubt, and it is the duty of publications such as the Daily to champion the cause of voter inclusion and fair elections. If we do not hold accountable those responsible for electoral violations, we have no reasonable expectation of fairness in the future, and we will continue to live in a democracy in which 59 percent involvement is considered “outstanding.”

Matt Hollerbach

LSA senior

The letter writer is a member of the Michigan Student Assembly.

"And the OSU game sucked almost as bad as State" ~indy_azcat
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SharonRB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
3. Go Blue -- I'm an alum
I hope people on campus aren't totally giving up. We need to keep the passion alive. I don't think we're whining -- if Bush won legitimately, that's one thing, but it doesn't appear that he did (again). It's important to be sure that all votes are counted accurately and reflect the real will of the people. If it still turns out that Bush won, then so be it. I just hope we can get at the truth before it's too late.
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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
4. this is what I replied
I am not a whining liberal.

And I resent the implication that questioning the election processes is "whining".

Joel, you are generalizing that everyone who wants to see a reliable election that we can trust is merely seeking to overturn the results of the current election. There is no better time to study what went wrong with an election than to examine what went wrong with the election and derive a plan to correct it for future elections.

That's not whining. You sound like Ann Coulter - anybody who uses the word "whining" as repeatedly as you have is being provocative, and I am provoked.

No we suck enough of it up from the bigots and criminals on the right without having to defend against the first person to circle the firing squad. Some of us are knock-your-fucking-dick-in-the-dirt fighters, and we're not done fighting.

I hope your journalistic style matures and that you remember where to point your guns, or else you need to get off the firing squad, dude.
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DinahMoeHum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
5. Hope the Wolverines kick the shit out of the Buckeyes
this Saturday!!

:bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce:
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bones_7672 Donating Member (558 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-04 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. oops, SOMEBODY got kicked! n/t
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realisticphish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-04 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. wah wah wah
waaaaaaaah :evilgrin:


:hippie: The Incorrigible Democrat
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
6. I emailed him
Gave him a nice run down of voting problems, and told him we aren't whining, we're auditing.
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indy_azcat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Cool!
:yourock:
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Lefty48197 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 07:36 PM
Response to Original message
8. That guy should sue the university for malpractice
since he obviously has a LOT to learn.
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LisaM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
9. Why do people think MoveOn is ultra left?
I may email him too. They are NOT left wing. It's another branding disaster - even my own mother, a fervent Democrat, spread misinformation about them and she won't back down.
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Ann Arbor Dem Donating Member (900 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-04 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
12. The author of the column does not reflect the mood on campus...
He represents an negligible number of students.
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-04 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
13. Hey! You can post comments!
I emailed him before, but on a second look, I realized there's a post comments section. (They get approved by a moderator before they show up).

Mine may have been a tad snarky.
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stavka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
15. You'd be happily amazed!
..with the number of students and others STILL wearing Kerry/Edwards buttons and stickers...and the sudden bloom of "W'04" stickers in SUV's from out of state in Ann Arbor.

The Campus remains a battleground, and I know who has the most boots on the ground, by far!
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Ann Arbor Dem Donating Member (900 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-26-04 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Good point about the out of state vehicles with the W stickers...
Edited on Fri Nov-26-04 02:11 PM by Ann Arbor Dem
I've seen it too...what wimps. But I'm very happy to see so many students still using Kerry/Edwards buttons/stickers!
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