for Cdns watching the Democratic convention

[iverglas]

My helpful tip is a little late, but -- CPAC is carrying the feed from its US counterpart, CSPAN. This means you can watch the convention free from the US network (or Newsworld) nattering heads.

It's also rebroadcasting, e.g. at 6 this morning and again today from 3 to 6 in the afternoon, it's showing last night's events and speeches. (I'd worked all Tuesday night and fell asleep early last night, so got to catch the replay this morning. Woke up too late for Al Sharpton, so have set the VCR to get him this afternoon.)


And now my question:

When was the last time a Canadian politician *had* a military record??

If a Canadian politician had been involved in the Vietnam war on the US side, would anyone even imagine that this could be passed off as a *good* thing??

It's all very complex, of course, and is inextricably connected with the USAmerican fixation on "freedom" -- and thus the easy portrayal of any participation in any military adventure by the US as "defending our country". A country that itself became "free" over 2 centuries ago and where it simply has not been an issue since, whose citizens have been "free", under the constitution they adopted over 2 centuries ago (well, most of 'em) and where it simply has not been an issue since ... and still they make with the jingoistic/militaristic "freedom" discourse/crusade at every opportunity.

You'd almost think they all thought (or somebody wanted 'em to believe) that nobody else in the world was "free" ... or might have moved on to want, and have, a few more things that maybe USAmericans haven't actually got ...


And when was the last time you heard a prayer like that one on Monday night at a Canadian political event? Good grief, the clergywoman in question actually invoked the father, the son and the holy ghost. Yay pluralism and tolerance and equality, eh? But hey, they've got that "freedom" stuff ... who needs pluralism and tolerance and equality ... or health care or ...

Martin actually uttered the words "god bless Canada" at some campaign event, I believe. I was shocked and appalled. That's right-wing crap, and we all know it. Yeah, here we are:
http://www.cbc.ca/canadavotes/analysiscommentary/religionpolitics.html

Many Canadian Alliance MPs mirrored their church-going constituents in strongly opposing C-23 throughout 2003. It remains to be seen whether the new Conservative Party of Canada will back away from that stance in an attempt to woo moderate voters formerly attached to the Progressive Conservative Party. Leader Stephen Harper, who belongs to a Christian and Missionary Alliance church and often ends his speeches by saying "God bless Canada," opposes same-sex marriage personally but has pledged to allow MPs to side with their consciences in a free vote on the topic.

And ... when was the last time a Canadian politician *had* a wife?? I mean, so's you'd notice.

Imelda Mulroney? Margaret and Maureen were some pretty obvious wives -- but they didn't exactly fit the "wife" mould, and that was kinda the point. And of course there's Olivia Chow, who actually was (and is, and like Shelley Martel - NDP too of course) politician first and wife second.

Can you imagine a Canadian political daughter standing up a convention to extol her mother's virtues (can you even imagine the mother in question being a speaker at a leadership convention??) by saying what wonderful things she was, a lawyer, a coach, a this, a that, but first and foremost (or however she put it), a mother?? Can you imagine any Canadian political party to the left of the Alliance thinking that this was a *good* thing to say about a woman??

"First ladies". Ew. Sure glad *we* don't have any of that monarchy crap anymore. ;) Well, I mean, we do have John Raulston Saul, but, well, there ya go.


I dunno. Isn't USAmerican politics just a barrel of monkeys, though?

[Minstrel Boy]

1. You spoke for me, too,

so I don't have much left to say. Great post.

The fetish made of the military, the perpetual invocation of God and the bizarre public role of family members are a few of the things that make American politics exceptionally other for me.

Of the Dem frontrunners I preferred Dean because he ignored most of that. He sounded familiar to me, maybe even a little Canadian. He would have made a fine populist of the old school Progressive Conservative stripe.

[Sabriel]

2. This is a refreshing thread.

I'm reading about a (Canadian) political paradigm that doesn't exist here in the US, and it's almost too hard to wrap my mind around it. Not mention God 20 times a speech? Not invokes one's military record or use it against an opponent? My mind's numb now....

You have NO IDEA how lucky you are.

[iverglas]

4. oh yes we do ;)

We get to watch all that amurikan teevee, and see just how lucky we are!

The sad thing is that you don't get to watch much of anything else -- if ya did, more of you would know how lucky we are, and maybe want a piece of it. Your own piece, I mean, of course. ;)

It's the utter unsophistication of the public manifestations of US politics that amazes. Slogans from the 18th century, wives with shiny hair, constant invoking of "patriotism". It really is -- and this is said dispassionately, just as an observation, not meaning to poke fun (not that we aren't wont to do that) -- like looking at a third world country of the tin-pot general variety. I hasten to say that this is what looking at the trappings and ceremonies of it all looks like, and that I don't mean that the informed observer isn't aware that there is infinitely more on offer than just that.

What even most Canadians don't realize is that Canada is an extraordinarily sophisticated society. It is *modern* in every way. The superficial similarities between us and the US obscure the very real differences for too many people, and the over-exposure to the US side of it pushes out the details and the breadth of what our side is really like.

[gula]

3. And wasn't the fact that his wife wasn't constantly

with him being pointed out as there being something wrong?

Would I be wrong in saying that Americans are a nation of worshipers?

And you hit the nail on the head. I always had trouble articulating why I preferred Dean, of course, he appeared the most Canadian.

Hurray for Canadian politicians. At least most of them do not make me want to throw up every time they open their mouths.

[yvr girl]

5. What military?

Off the top of my head, I couldn't name a single Canadian politician with a military record.

Another thing I noticed. The Catholic thing. People still comment that Kerry is a Catholic. The second since JFK. I read somewhere that most of Canada's PM's have been Catholic. I don't ever recall someone's particular religion being a campaign issue in Canada.

[habsdude]

6. Religion and Military

I believe Lester B. Pearson was in the Royal Flying Corp during the Great War. Diefenbaker was also in the army during the war.

And religion did become a (minor) campaign issue in 2000 with respect to Stockwell Day's fundamentalist Christian views.

Most PMs have been Catholic indeed including the last six out of the last seven Martin, Chretien, Mulroney, Turner, Clark, Trudeau. Of course, Catholicism is the largest denomination, so it makes sense that most are Catholic.

The whole Catholic thing was more important of an issue on Provincial and municipal levels in Ontario (Orange Toronto and such) or in Manitoba (Manitoba Schools Question).

[yvr girl]

8. I'm sure that there are others

I don't remember Pearson or Diefenbaker. I'm sure that there are others who served as well. We don't have as many war heros though, because we don't have as many wars.

Are you old enough to remember either Pearson or Diefenbaker as candidates? Was their service an election issue?

I'll agree that Stockwell Day's religious affiliation became somewhat of an issue. But in general I have not heard much about the religous views of our political leaders.

[habsdude]

9. not born then

Nah, I'm too young to be of the Pearson, Diefenbaker age. I was born during the last days of Trudeau. Just before Turner.

If looking for politicians with military service, it would be at that time though, in the 50s and 60s (perhaps 70s), most of which would have served in the First World War. After all 619,636 (out of a population of about 8 million) served in WWI and more than a million served in WWII out of a population of about 11/12 million. So its not like having a military record was a rare thing. A large chunk of men of a certain age had faught in World Wars. I doubt that military service ever became an issue. But then again, I'm no expert.

[iverglas]

10. that's the thing

I'll agree that Stockwell Day's religious affiliation became somewhat of an issue.

And the issue was actually that religion had been injected into the political arena in what was, to us, a totally inappropriate manner -- by Stockwell Day. He was the one claiming to base his politics on his religion.

If he had just kept stumm about the whole thing, like most of those RCers in our politics do, there wouldn't have been an issue.

Are you old enough to remember either Pearson or Diefenbaker as candidates? Was their service an election issue?

Me, I'm old enough that I was around, but not that I picked up on election campaign stuff. ;)

Same point here -- most people have a religion, many people (in certain circumstances) have a military record, and nobody thinks it necessary to drag either one of them (or the spouse, which most people also have) into an electoral campaign.


On the religion-in-politics thing, let me recommend Bill Blaikie's take on the Stockwell Day business again. (Bill's a United Church minister and long-time NDP MP.)

http://www.punditmag.com/articles/blaikie.html

On the RCers in Cdn politics thing, you might find Mark MacGuigan's book Abortion, Conscience and Democracy in a library. I've never read it, but MacGuigan was one of those pretty honourable Quebec Liberals; I knew him a little in his subsequent career as a federal court judge, and found him quite modest and decent over a beer.

http://www.parl.gc.ca/36/1/parlbus/chambus/house/debates/052_1998-02-04/han052_1520-e.htm

<Herb Gray> ... Everything he did was inspired by his own deep religious faith, influenced by the great Roman Catholic religious philosophers he had studied in such depth, especially Saint Thomas Aquinas and his modern interpreter, Jacques Maritain. This faith was the basis for his commitment to the cause of human rights and civil liberties.

He believed, as he wrote in his book which was published just a few years ago, Abortion, Conscience and Democracy, that an acceptance of a pluralistic society is God's plan for the world.

(I think our leading Quebec RC politicians have tended to be of a more Jesuit bent than many in the US, just as our protestants tend to be of a more social-gospel bent than there. ;) )

[habsdude]

11. Trudeau

You reminded me, talking of Jesuit-educated politicians from Quebec politics, about Trudeau.

It took his death for most Canadians to find out how devoutly he believed in God and in the Church.

[newyawker99]

12. Hi habsdude!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[habsdude]

13. Thank you

Thank you!

[TrogL]

7. Many people were upset that Stockwell Day was a fundie preacher