Canada wants to kill baby seals.

[Renew Deal]

http://www.hsus3.org/protectseals

[Branjor]

1. Signed!

Yes, it is a barbaric ritual they do every year. I have protested it before.

Thanks for posting.

[tuvor]

2. How is this morally different from killing, say, cows or pigs?

I haven't seen proof that the manner of killing cows or pigs is any more humane than the way the seals are killed. Red blood on white snow may look more dramatic than a grey, smelly killing floor, but is there any hard proof?

Do these guys have a campaign to end veal production, too?

All legitimate questions. I'm ignorant and juuuuuuust asking.

[tuvor]

6. Bleachers7, where have you gone?

The lack of a reply doesn't exactly win me over.

[4_TN_TITANS]

3. It's not as commercialized

as the slaughtering of livestock, but those seals are just so gosh-darn-cute....

[ConcernedCanuk]

4. those seals are just so gosh-darn-cute.... that's it in a nutshell really

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and I wonder where they think "calves liver" comes from . .

Baby cows!

and it IS the commercialization of the slaughtering

imagine, if percentage-wise, images were pasted around the globe in the same numbers of cattle, chickens, sheep, pigs, whatever - -

I'd hazard a guess that'd be in the millions . . .

Until these groups report BALANCED pictures and protests of ALL slaughterings that man does for his benefit

I'll pay them not much attention.

Those natives were killing seals LONG before the white man came over and imposed his morality and economics on them - stealing THEIR lands and resources in the meantime

so spare me the outrage!

[CHIMO]

5. Killing Is Horrible

Now if they ever learned how to do that with humans they would be awful.

[ninty]

7. If you ever see any

of the videos of them whacking the seals over the head, it seems pretty brutal...

There should be a better way to go about doing it.

[tuvor]

10. "Seems" is one thing.

It might not be pretty, but I haven't seen proof that it's "brutal."

I mean, the guillotine "seems" nasty as hell, but it was made with humane death in mind.

Sorry, I'm just one of those guys who generally needs proof before he believes anything. Including whether the clubbing of baby seals actually means a brutal death.

ON EDIT: Hey, welcome to DU! :hi:

[Canuckistanian]

8. My problem with it is that it's done for vanity reasons

And only the skins from baby seals is good enough. Any other species that we hunt is usually mandated that MATURE animals can be taken.
Fish have to be longer that 6", etc. Why do we make an exception for seals?

[tuvor]

9. If we ate the baby seal meat, too, would that be better?

It would be just like when we kill claves for veal, wouldn't it? Or would it?

I'm not being sarcastic. I just like to see consistency when a group of activists takes a principled stand, in this case the HSUSA that bleachers7 originally posted about. The bleachers7 who doesn't seem interested in discussing the issue he/she brought up in the first place.

[CHIMO]

11. Anti-sealers have dubious motives

The International Fund for Animal Welfare discovered more than 30 years ago that by depicting sealers as brutal killers of "baby" seals, it could raise hundreds of thousands of dollars within months.

Last year, the IFAW raised $77.5 million U.S.

With huge amounts of money so easily available when you play on people's emotions — brutal men versus cuddly "baby" seals — and when you target people who can't fight back, other "charitable" organizations were quick to jump on the bandwagon.

For anti-sealers, who in effect raise money on the backs of the poor, the seal hunt is their annual fundraiser.

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1111490467030&call_pageid=968256290204&col=968350116795

[HEyHEY]

12. We all need hobbies

[Mother Jones]

13. Some of us are not only against this,

but also against the inhumane slaughter of ANY animal. Some of us DO hold our principles dear and won't discriminate between one species or another.

That does not mean we are all hypocrites or in it for profit or any other nonsense some might want to drum up.

PETA does alot of great work to this end, and has brought about change in a very positive manner.

I fully support the stop-the-seal-hunt.

[tuvor]

14. A question and a comment. And another question.

Question: Would you please offer proof that it's inhumane? No one else on this thread seems interested in doing so.

Comment: "PETA...has brought about change in a very postive manner."? I don't know about that. PETA's support of ALF in general, and their financial support of the ALF member Rodney Coronado's trial in particular (is it true that he had admitted guilt in advance of the trial?) seriously mitigates much of any good that they might do.

Another question: How much of the stuff on this Fur Commission USA page is true, and how much is garbage? http://www.furcommission.com/news/newsF04k.htm

One more question, sorry. (Too much Google.) Are any of these quotes from PETA people phoney?: http://www.peta-sucks.com/whatispeta.htm

Please note, I'm not being contentious for its own sake. My mind is here for the changing, but I need more than what I'm seeing on this thread.

[Mother Jones]

15. There's a better thread buried in 'latest' on this topic,

which includes the links to Greenpeace and the U.S Humane Society statements.

You'll pardon me if I believe the myriad of stories, pictures and videos these organizations have produced, to the contrary of the statements of the seal hunt industry.

PETA has been instrumental in setting standards for humane treatment of animals. They are not, as some might think, SOLELY trying to convince the world not to eat meat. For instance, they launched massive campaigns that have resulted in McDonalds, Burger King and Wendy's to alter their suppliers handling/slaughter of chickens. Currently, they are campaigning against KFC, and have had a few small victories on that front so far. They also have exposed horrific animal conditions at IAMS feeding labs, where they purport to "care deeply" about our companion animals, while evidence shows disgusting animal experiments, feeding trials and surgeries.
I could list dozens of examples, but you get the idea of how their involvement is paramount in changing the standards for humane animal husbandry.

Re your 2nd question; I assume you're posting that to all. I am not a spokesperson for anti-fur or peta. In short - I imagine there is some truth and some garbage. However, I will say this, here in Canada, my donations to PETA are NOT tax deductible due to their advocasy work. I will also say I'm suspicious of anything lead by a republican against any organization, simply on the grounds that they are typically pro-corporate.

Re your 3rd question; Again, no spokesperson here, but i imagine PETA has it's extremists as any organization does. That website posted convenient 'sound bite' bits, and also uses some 'scary' tactics of their own, in condemning PETA. I couldn't begin to defend everything a PETA member says, but I would think some of these quotes may have been taken out of context.

[tuvor]

20. And yet again, no proof offered that the seal hunt is actually inhumane.

I don't know how much easier a target I can paint for those of you who claim it IS inhumane.

[Mother Jones]

22. Tuvor, do you own homework. You have the web at your fingertips,

If you cannot find ANY stories/videos,etc... on how many of the seals are not actually dead when they are skinned alive, then you're not searching properly.

If you are unclear as to whether skinning alive is inhumane or not, that's a different story.

You have every right to wholeheartedly believe the seal hunting industry. Goodness knows, corporate giants have only our very best interests at heart, and are 100% ethical and humane.

[tuvor]

24. Nothing doing.

If YOU make the claim, YOU provide the proof. How is that unreasonable?

I asked for proof that this is inhumane well over a week ago. I'm starting to believe no proof exists.

[livinginphotographs]

25. Here's some.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0327-05.htm

Some seals will be killed using hakapics, a wooden pole with a metal spike at the end. The Canadian government defends its use as humane, but footage last year suggested young animals were left convulsing after initial strikes failed to kill them instantly. The remainder are shot with rifles or shotguns.

http://www.furisdead.com/feat-harpseal.asp
(with video)

If you were to witness the hunt in Newfoundland, you would see firsthand hundreds of thousands of baby seals, too young even to know how to swim away, having their heads bashed in or being shot pointblank. You would witness a scene much like the one reported last year in The Washington Post: " seal appearing to gasp for air, blood running from its nose as it lies on an ice floe. Not far away, a sealer sharpens his knife blade. The seal seems to be thrashing as its fur is sliced from its torso." Or like this one reported in the Christian Science Monitor: "The few terrified survivors, left to crawl through the carnage. The shouted obscenities and threats from the sealers, gunfire cracking ominously in the distance. The pitiful cries of the pups; the repellent thuds of clubs raining down on soft skulls. Sealers' laughter echoing across the ice floes." You may even hear the seal killers "utter a sarcastic 'welcome aboard' as they throw the skins on their 65-foot boat," as The New York Times reported last April. Maybe this year, the images of the ice floes bloodied with carcasses will do the trick to persuade you to give up furs forever.

http://www.hsus.org/marine_mammals/protect_seals/

An alarming number of the seals are skinned while alive and responsive to pain. Recently, an independent, international team of veterinarians observed the hunt and examined the corpses of skinned seals. They found evidence that up to 40% of them had skull injuries that were not sufficient to have caused death.

http://www.hsus.org/marine_mammals/protect_seals/facts_about_the_canadian_seal_hunt.html

It is important to note that each killing method is demonstrably cruel. Because sealers shoot at seals from moving boats, the pups are often only wounded. The main sealskin processing plant in Canada deducts $2 from the price they pay for the skins for each bullet hole they find—therefore sealers are loath to shoot seals more than once. As a result, wounded seals are left to suffer in agony—many slip beneath the surface of the water where they die slowly and are never recovered.

Is the Seal Hunt Cruel?
Yes. In 2001, a report by an independent team of veterinarians who studied the hunt concluded that governmental regulations regarding humane killing were neither being respected nor enforced, and that the seal hunt failed to comply with Canada's basic animal welfare regulations. Shockingly, the veterinarians found that in 42% of the cases they studied, the seals had likely been skinned alive while conscious.

Parliamentarians, journalists, and scientists who observe Canada's commercial seal hunt each year continue to report unacceptable levels of cruelty, including sealers dragging conscious seals across the ice floes with boat hooks, shooting seals and leaving them to suffer in agony, stockpiling dead and dying animals, and even skinning seals alive. Click here to see recent video footage of Canada's commercial seal hunt.


Does that work?

[tuvor]

26. Very helpful. Thank you

Bleachers7 and Mother Jones owe you one! :)

[ConcernedCanuk]

16. If PETA and organizations like it gave equal attention to ALL animals

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to all animals we "kill" for one reason or another -

I would give the coverage of the seal hunt(which I believe is around 300,000 seals this year), some attention and credit.

Considering the MILLIONS of each species in chickens, calves and cows, pigs, lambs and sheep, fish(some just for the eggs - caviar ya know) - oh and them lobsters we cook alive - -

The Seal Hunt is getting a totally distorted percentage of their "caring" attitudes as fas as I'm concerned -

But then what the hey - Canada can't be ALL good ya know - so let's pick on them a little - -

It's a non-issue to me

The seal hunt is part of the survival mode of the people there, just like the farmer that castrates his pig with no anesthetic - -

(betcha THAT made sumone twitch!)

Even up the outrage - then I'll listen!

[Mother Jones]

17. They DO give equal attention to all matters concerning animal welfare

I'm a member, and I get the monthly updates so I know this.

I don't think the seal hunt is getting a distorted percentage at all, it just so happens to have a 'season' attached to it. While the culling of chickens/pigs/cows, etc...doesn't.

[ConcernedCanuk]

18. I must have blinders on then . .

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.
.

I don't remember seeing much about cows, pigs, sheep, etc. in LBN, or on any Front Page story lately

of course

the seal hunt is just once a year

the other abuse and slaughter happens every day . .

:shrug:

[Mother Jones]

19. Ah... gotcha!

Thought you meant PETA, rather than LBN.

[chlamor]

23. About those cows pigs etc.

You are right but the seal hunt is wicked and brutal as are all forms of industrial slaughter including yours and mine. I am not a vegetarian but only eat foods from non-industrial sources and get my hands bloody.

Where is the ritual?
This slaughter is just raw capitalism.

The Chinese went to the industrial abbatoir except it was the RR in the 1800's. Same system. It is all connected to The Western Habit of Mind which is completely eviscerated from that which is its source.

[ConcernedCanuk]

21. Update, info and a link on the seal hunt

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/snip/

About 70 sealing vessels set sail for the ice-covered Gulf yesterday, where an estimated 90,000 harp seals are expected to be slaughtered for their pelts and oily blubber by the end of the week.

/snip/

This spring marks the last season for a three-year federal plan that allowed sealers to harvest a total of 975,000 seals. The total allowable catch for 2005 is nearly 320,000.

/snip/

According to federal regulations, harp seals can be legally hunted once they have shed their white coat, which occurs when they are about two weeks old.

However, the federal Fisheries Department says most harp seals aren't hunted until they are about 25 days old.