So what did we Brits think of Obama's big speech, then?

[non sociopath skin]

On the whole, I think The Boy Done Good.

I notice that the Right-Wing boards are grumbling about how much BBC Air Time he's getting. So they must be worried! :evilgrin:

The Skin

[mwooldri]

1. IIRC the World Service said they'd air his speech live.

Didn't catch it; I was working.

For this Brit in NC... I'm thinking why the fsck am I comparing Barack to Maggie Thatcher? Didn't care for her policies but she was one heck of a speaker (You turn if you want to, this lady's not for turning, can't forget that speech). But Barack was better - damn inspirational!

Mark.

[non sociopath skin]

2. I hear people in the UK comparing Obama to Tony Blair ....

... but I can't see much of a resemblance, other than - like Blair in the mid-nineties - he's young,optimistic and comes largely untrammelled by political baggage.

For me, Blair always looked and sounded like a snake-oil salesman. I find myself actively liking Obama as a person, and wanting to believe his promises, even though my views are probably to the left of his in some (not all) areas. The biopics last night certainly suggested that he had a much better record on community involvement than Blair ever had.

I like Joe Biden, too. The man has warmth which doesn't seem manufactured.

Got yourselves a good team there, I think. Go for it!

The Skin

[Mr Creosote]

5. I'm sort of with the skin on this

he does seem more trustworthy than Blair - which may of course just mean he's a better actor. Bloody sight better than the other choice though.

[Mr Creosote]

6. And whilst we're on the subject of thick republicans (tautology?)

There was just a bony blonde republican strategist crowing on Channel 4 news that it had taken a 72 year old man to shatter the glass ceiling. Obviously not very good at maths - Fritz Mondale was actually only 56 in 1984.

[Henny Penny]

9. I think the comparison is unfortunately a good one.

I think Obama's "I accept the nomination with humility..." cue choreographed adulation, fireworks, confetti etc from the 84000, was not unlike Blair's "I'm not one for sound bites but I feel the hand of history on my shoulder...."

and I'm not too impressed by Biden but then I'm not a US citizen which means I can't vote of course but it also means perhaps that a lot of what works for an American audience seems shallow and false to me.

There was a photo of Obama taken at some point during the speech printed on the front page of the Irish Times. It was taken from such an angle as to make him appear Christlike with a shimmering halo. This kind of imagery was often used in the Bush campaign as well but I find it very unsettling.

[Kolesar]

4. inspirational

I was in a pretty depressed mood on account of some news I got "from home". I was truly uplifted at the end of the speech when he was talking about Dr. Martin Luther King speaking at the Lincoln Memorial. I was too young to remember that speech, but when I was listening to Obama I imagined that I was listening to Dr. King.

I followed your thread from the homepage. All it had was the thread title, it did not list the UK forum.

[enlightenment]

3. I'm not a Brit - just a wannabe -

but may I join in?

I wasn't all that impressed. It was a pretty speech, true. Obama gives good theatre, I'll give him that - and I believe that HE believes things need to change. He also seems to think he is going to have the ability to make those changes easily . . . as if, somehow, the power of the Legislature is going to be ceded to the Executive.

Comments like "I'll invest $150bn over the next decade in affordable, renewable sources of energy" - umm. He won't be there in ten years - eight years, tops. Or "I will also go through the federal budget, line by line, eliminating programs that no longer work . . ." - nice thought but it's not his place to do that. Congress does that.

Unless he's thinking we're going to amend the Constitution for him . . .

It concerns me that the horror of the last eight years has led a lot of people to magical thinking; to assuming that Obama is something more than the average politician. He's not. If he was, we would have noticed him before he decided to run for President. It's great that we finally have someone other than a white guy running - the US is LONG overdue to get over itself in regard to race and gender - but his skin colour doesn't concern me. What comes out of his mouth does.

I'm not saying he's bad (or at least, any worse) than another choice and I recognise I'm damned cynical about it all, but political theatre and wishful thinking aren't going to change much. And before anyone hauls out the old DU bludgeon of "well, so vote for McCain" please let me make clear that I will vote for Obama.

I just don't think he's the magic pill that's going to "fix" what ails the US - and that's going to cause an awful lot of disappointment.

[non sociopath skin]

7. I'm sure you're right, enlightenment.

Politicians aren't magicians, just people like the rest of us.

I don't think that Obama is made out of pixie dust and the "Magical Thinkers" will probably be disappointed. But I do think that, as politicians go, his heart is in the right place and that the odds are he'll be a decent President though, like all of them, he won't do half of what you or I would want him to.

Tell you what, though. If we had an Obama and a Biden waiting in the wings over here, I'd feel a tad more optimistic than I do now.

The Skin

[enlightenment]

8. You have more faith in my assessment than I do, Skin!

Mine is just one opinion, rarely stated around DU because I dislike being flayed alive for disloyalty.

I agree that Obama's heart is in the right place and he will be an improvement over the current waste-of-oxygen currently occupying the White House . . . that's not saying much, though, is it? ouch.

I don't dislike the man, but I am uncomfortable with his inability to hold a firm position. He has spent a tremendous amount of time pandering to various constituencies - sometimes to the extent of back-tracking on his stated goals to one in order to satisfy another. Typical political manoeuvring, but disheartening nonetheless. I am also concerned at how vague his position statements remain at this point in the election process. I've read his position papers; I'm less than satisfied with his explanations thus far. It's not surprising at all, though - just another day in the life of professional politics.

As for what's happening in the UK - gads. You have my sympathies. There don't seem to be any decent choices at all. Gordon Brown seems nothing more than a particularly weak stop-gap with a terminal case of foot-in-mouth; Cameron makes my hair stand on end - and everyone else appears to either be boxing with their own shadows or jockeying for position like greedy, self-serving, spoon-fed heirs at the bedside of a dying billionaire.

It makes me long for a mountaintop cave . . .

[Mr Creosote]

10. Oh we do have a choice waiting in the wings

Jon Cruddas

http://www.joncruddas.org.uk/index.php?getPage=JonsArticles

[non sociopath skin]

11. Unfortunately, he's very deeply in the wings, in a theatrical skip ...

... parked well away from the footlights, with half a dozen heavies sitting on it.

I'm not holding my breath,I'm afraid.

The Skin

[enlightenment]

12. Interesting website -

tell me what you think of him, if you have a minute - please?

[T_i_B]

13. Trouble is...Cruddas very much lack's Obama's charisma

But then again who in the parlimentary Labour party does have that sort of charisma?

Add to that his lack of top-level experience and the fact that many at the top of the Labour party are very much against him for daring to have one or two good progressive ideas and you can see why I won't be getting my hopes up about Crudda's chances anytime soon.

To be honest I can't see the Labour party in it's present state letting a Obama style "change" candidate get anywhere in their own ranks. There are too many in the Labour party who are opposed to Labour changing from the habits of the Blair years.

[LeftishBrit]

14. I like Jon Cruddas, but I honestly don't think he's got the chance of the proverbial snowflake.

[LeftishBrit]

15. You are pretty well right about the UK

Though I think they're all - even Cameron - significantly better than the Bushies.

Unfortunately, Blair's domination of the Labour Party has meant that almost all Labourites around are either Blairites or close to it, or totally marginalized and with no experience or hope of getting it. (Oh, I forgot Prescott; who is in neither category, but just his own brand of idiot!)

As regards Obama, I like him, but I have had so much disillusionment with politicians that I will always wait till they get in office to draw final conclusions. Also, almost no American (or most British) candidate with a chance of winning is going to fully meet my political criteria (ultraliberal or Europaean-type socialist; at the same time thoughtful and not too flakey). Obama comes closer than many; but he's obviously had to swing a little to the right to have much of a chance of getting elected. Bear in mind that of the American candidates whom I can remember (first was Carter), the one who most inspired my enthusiasm was Dukakis; so I am obviously not very typical!

[fedsron2us]

16. The problem is that people put to much hope and faith in leaders

and their policy pronouncements. They do not pay enough attention to the way government is structured and operates. This vanguardist thinking is the root cause of the rot in most western democracies. It also allows organisations such as corporations to manipulate public administration and pervert it to their own ends. In the end the only people who are going to save us are ourselves.

[non sociopath skin]

17. I'm all for that, Feds.

But where do we start?

The Skin

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

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[non sociopath skin]

19. Why so, Mr. B?

At this point in time, neither side looks like "sailing," I'd have thought.

The Skin

[mr blur]

23. I just feel that -

the closer to the election it gets the more people will panic about Obama being black/Muslim/left-wing (although not as we know it)/Socialist/Commie anti-American etc. And Fox News will drive them that way.

And this woman is a gift - here's how the Times is showing her:



And she's not afraid to kill stuff:



Why she's more macho than Bush! Her son's going to Iraq! She's anti-abortion! She's god-fearin'!

[LeftishBrit]

25. Also there's the POW card. It's easy to ridicule the seeming over-use...

but the reason the GOP play it is that it's quite likely to work.

Still hoping that people wake up and don't vote for them. If they do, it will probably be because of 'the economy, stupid', which seems to be tanking there as here.

[LeftishBrit]

20. I don't think they'll *sail*.

But it wouldn't surprise me if they won unfortunately. Polls have been very close throughout. And there is probably a certain distinctly unpleasant contingent who will steel themselves to go and vote for that liberal McCain, to prevent that far-leftist racially impure secret Muslim from getting in.

At the moment and lots can change, my 'intuition' is that McNut may scrape through narrowly (as Republicans so often do, by fair means or foul); but that the Democrats may increase their majority in Congress sufficiently to put the brakes on him. I ardently hope that I'm over-pessimistic (about McInsane, not the Congress!) - not just because of him, but because the thought of an ultra-fundie Vice President who supported Pat Buchanan just doesn't make me feel exactly safe and warm. Especially given that McBush would be 76 by the time his term ends.

[Henny Penny]

26. What ever happened to policies....?

The US, like the rest of us is up shit creek without a paddle. And serious policies are going to need to be applied...

And yet the discussion of the entire campaign is at the level of "our guy is better than your guy..."

I think this election will be close and Obama risks losing because he has very clearly failed to connect with demographic chunks of electorate that matter ie can be relied upon to actually come out and vote.

The groups I think he's missing seem to be blue collar workers, women in the 35+ bracket and Hispanics.


The Obama campaign is trying to make up the shortfall by getting younger first time voters to go for their guy but this group is notoriously unreliable. It seems very risky to me especially when the selection of Biden goes some way to negating this strategy. (Those hair plugs aren't cool).

I don't remember the McGovern campaign but from what I've read this seems like a very similar scenario.


There is always the possibility that McCain will make some error or his new VP will, but if she survives the current onslaught she'll probably stay the course.


Given the last 8 years and the state of the economy if blue collar workers aren't connecting with the Dems, they are in serious trouble.

[Name removed]

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[mr blur]

22. Sorry, I read that's what they're calling her in the US.

[Name removed]

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