Bev Harris did NOT serve legal papers to LePore...

[Maddy McCall]

let's be perfectly clear about her purpose for crashing the party.

The legal papers had been delivered THAT morning to LePore's office, as is the process in any legal case against a governmental entity.

Bev crashed the party to get attention. The papers she gave LePore were just a copy. She claimed that LePore had not responded--HELL, she had only received the papers at her office that morning. I am sure that the county's attorney will handle the case, not LePore personally, and I am also sure that the county attorney has instructed LePore not to speak with the plaintiff, as is the case in any lawsuit.

Harris interrupted the party to get media attention for herself, and in the process, hurt the cause that many DUers have supported. I hope this awakens some of you to the true person you have been supporting with your time and dollars.

[AmyCrat]

1. wasted time

"Harris interrupted the party to get media attention for herself, and in the process, hurt the cause that many DUers have supported. I hope this awakens some of you to the true person you have been supporting with your time and dollars."

Harris interrupted the party to get media attention for herself, when in reality she could have gotten on a plane, gone to Keith Olbermann show, and gotten much more exposure... and maybe not in such a "tin-foil-hat-wearing" kinda way.

[Maddy McCall]

2. I don't think Olbermann has ever invited her to be on the show

She claims he has, twice, but has called and cancelled.

Bullshit, I say. She's trying to create some kind of false fame for herself by attachment to famous people.

[Donailin]

13. Man o man

You guys are brutal. I just can't sit here and play armchair quarteback and decide to assign ulterior motives to a woman who has singlehandedly brought this issue to our attention.

You just were not there to understand the circumstances that led to her "scene in the ballroom."

I'll give her the benefit of the doubt. I'm going to assume she had the best of intentions to break through the frustration she must certainly be feeling. , not the worst. I imagine she logs on occassionally and sees the threads that say "Why isn't Bev making progress??" and "BBV Breaking news isn't news at all!" and other such posts.

How can anyone win with such skepticism? Fer crying out loud, have a care. . .

[Maddy McCall]

31. Yet another Bev Posse member.

Actually, Bev didn't do it single-handedly, although she would prefer that everyone think that. That's the problem with her. She's crapped on everyone who helped her, and anytime anyone else gets close to receiving kudos for their work on BBV, she does everything within her means to discredit them, including threatening to sue them.

[jamboi]

37. Your postings read like you have a personal vendetta vs.Harris. "Bev Posse

" Why such inflated rhetoric? What's your axe to grind here?

[The Backlash Cometh]

38. And, what, pray thee tell, have you done for the cause?

[loritooker]

36. You guys ARE brutal

I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt--I hope she responds--soon.

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Maddy McCall]

48. Huh? That made no sense.

:shrug:

[The Backlash Cometh]

56. Actually, my british pals would call you a mad cow.

You're making this way too personal. Now, if you want me to listen to you, please tell me what your efforts have been to help the cause and I'll give you a fair hearing.

[Maddy McCall]

59. I don't give a fuck if you listen to me or not.

Jeez, it's all about you. :shrug:

[The Backlash Cometh]

75. No, Maddy. It's all about you trying to stir up the mud here.

Bev deserves time to explain things in her own good time. She doesn't need to come back to find you here with a lynching party in tow.

[Maddy McCall]

79. Oh, she'll explain alright. Gotta keep those donations flowing...

no matter what lies it takes to do so.

So you are a "Cult of Bev" member, too. :shrug:

[The Backlash Cometh]

99. I think you have a personal problem with Bev. And I think it's odd

how you would make this so public, instead of talking to the people you know through e-mail.

[merh]

15. Go read Olberman's blog - he writes that he has asked Bev

to let them see the poll tapes they have and has asked her on to the show, she has refused.

No, she wasn't serving the papers, she was providing a courtesy copy of the complaint served on the official's office that morning. Yes, she probably was doing it for the attention, given that the official has denied Bev's legally filed FOIAs, thus the need to file the lawsuit. If the official paid the FOIAs filed by Bev and Bev any attention, Bev would not probably not have found it necessary to file the lawsuit and drop in on the official. If you are going to make a statement, please include all information. If you are going to slam, double check your facts.

The link to Olberman's blog can be found in another thread in this forum.

I don't know Bev from Adam, but I do know she is doing more than I am and probably more than the majority that are taking shots at her today.

Just get your facts straight, okay.

[Maddy McCall]

32. Hmmmm....could the whole VIDEO STORY be BS too?

Makes you wonder.

[The Backlash Cometh]

46. Cat fight!

<snarl, hisssss>

[Eloriel]

71. nevermind

[dmac]

87. Uh, I believe KO said in his blog tonight that

she has been invited on the show and that she refuses to come or cancels.

[Stand and Fight]

94. Tsk, tsk..

Actually he has invited her on several occasions. Read his latest posting if you don't take my word for it. And I'm no "Cult of Bev" member as you say, but I hate it when people rely on emotion rather than facts. Hell, that's my biggest grip against the Republicans! I've got my own private reservations about her, but I'll put her on trial privately -- that is, keeping my own council -- and not hanging her at high noon before all the facts are out.

[w4rma]

3. If you haven't noticed the media has been ignoring this issue.

I think any media attention is good media attention when they seem to have this issue on a blacklist.

She has done more than her share of the work on this issue. I think you should lay off and let her do whatever work she can on this issue. There is nothing stopping *you* from taking on this issue in the manner that *you* see fit, but as long as she is the one motivated and you are the one who is not, she gets to call the shots.

[Maddy McCall]

5. But who or what is getting the attention?

The person, and not in a good way. She's making herself a controversial person for herself, not for the cause.

Give up on her.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

9. I want my money back :( nt

[NVMojo]

53. so f*cking what. Who cares. This topic is stupid and not worth

getting your panties and jock straps in a wad like Maddie.

[The Backlash Cometh]

64. I think we should give up on you.

I know what it's like to be out on the field and I know that whatever Bev did, she thought she had to do.

Why don't you just take a valium and sit this one out?

[Carolab]

10. Agree with the above.

Attention is not necessarily a bad thing. Bev said she didn't go on CD because she said she was going to use the "F" word and they didn't want her to. Well, now the "F" word has been used. So maybe now that objection is moot. I e-mailed her and said as much and urged her to contact KO.

[Maddy McCall]

14. What a stupid reason NOT to appear on a show.

Does she really lack self control that much? Jeez, listen to that logic. "I can't promote the issue that is most important to me because I might curse." DAmn! Then don't fucking curse! Puh-leez!

Always new excuses...watch her, and you will see.

[MadAsHellNewYorker]

21. the F word is FRAUD n/t

[Maddy McCall]

24. Are there not a million synonyms for the word "fraud," then?

It's just another excuse. Covering her tracks.

[Name removed]

107. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The Backlash Cometh]

84. Bev sounds just like me. I can't hide my outrage when I confront

these people.

[Carl Brennan]

16. You nailed it. Let's raise HELLL!

[AmyCrat]

17. In case you haven't noticed

I don't have lots of money that's been donated to me to work on this issue... so right at the moment, talking to you or making a logo for voter fraud, or writing a letter to KO or my senator, well I don't get anything for it.

Any media attention is good? You are WRONG. She isn't Madonna selling a racey album. This is about integrity and election fraud... you better be pretty damn transparent yourself if that's the battle you're trying to lead. Being portrayed as a loon doesn't do ANY good for the cause.

[dmac]

110. "I think any media attention is good media attention "

Sometimes this is true, but I don't think in this case it is. Little enough is said on this subject and I don't think it does any good at all to have the few blurbs that get out to be so negative or to paint those who believe there was fraud as nuts. This only lends to their argument of "ignore them and they will go away" - and it makes us look like losers. And also, "There is nothing stopping *you* from taking on this issue in the manner that *you* see fit, but as long as she is the one motivated and you are the one who is not" - that would be true except that BBV has collected lots of money from those of us who are motivated to do more but do not know what to do. And when you take people's hard-earned money, I feel there should be some level of accountability - at least in that if there is a reason for her not to be jumping on getting this issue the kind of exposure it needs, then to tell her donors what is going on and why she has made the choices she has made. I am very sorry but credibility is everything and integrity is of utmost importance or else we will look no better than those we are trying to take on. I mean all of this respectfully but I am at a loss as for why she would pass on an opportunity to get the message out. I know that was what I was counting on when I put my $$ in. And I also signed up to be a volunteer and never received anything at all back. That concerned me - and now this. It isn't painting the best picture I am afraid.

[Catch22Dem]

4. Media attention for herself = media attention for the cause

It got media attention. Who is Bev Harris? Who is she with? Oh, BBV.org...interesting. Your argument is bunk because the cause just got media attention.

[Maddy McCall]

6. Nah...my argument isn't bunk...

People will see her, and then think that if she is that crazy, then the BBV issue is bullshit tin-foil crap. She sullies the movement by her connection to it.

[Donailin]

26. you gotta be effing kidding!

She IS the movement, she started the movement. Wrote the book, made a film and took action. You clicked a few buttons and made a donation and suddenly you're acting like a shareholder ready to dump the stock or fire the CEO.

"Who's side are you really on anyway???"

criminey.

[Maddy McCall]

39. Nope, I never made a donation...

Why would I donate to someone who took a grassroots movement that began at DU, received hundreds of hours of help from DUers, and then attempted to discredit them by threatening lawsuits and even coming on DU and LYING about them.

The true heroes are the ones you don't know...the selfless individuals who began this movement who Bev discarded so that she wouldn't have to share the limelight.

Just like McCarthy adopted the controversial issue of communism to propel himself into the spotlight, bev adopted BBV. If there is any karma, the way she has treated people will come back to haunt her.

I wouldn't donate to Bev. I know a scoundrel the ilk of McCarthy when I see one.

[jamboi]

51. Your inflated anti-Harris rhetoric makes if very hard to evaluate whatever

logic you have in your arguments. You come off like you've eaten some sour grapes. Me, I don't give a care who gets credit, I just want our election system fixed and to do whatever we can to correct this past election. If Harris is the star, its fine with me. You comparing her to McCarthy is so completely over the top I'd take you to be a troll.

[Maddy McCall]

62. Show me one instance of "rhetoric."

[NVMojo]

60. a grassroots movement started by DU?

Her book was out awhile ago and so was her questioning of the code.

How about you really telling us why you are so personally pissed off so we can decide if we should rule in your favor since you are making a case of your anger?

I'm open to hearing your side.

[KoKo]

90. Many DU'ers worked without pay to help Bev write her book. And her

book publisher gave alot of time to her and allowed the book to be published for free. She has angered alot of people because of that, but many have forgiven her because she got results.

I see her both ways...but I'm glad she's out there even if she's crashing LePore's party... She's flamboyant, but so is Michael Moore. She does get things done but she's angered and hurt many people along the way. Just because I defend her with LePore doesn't mean I don't know what went on here on DU...

I hope somehow fences can be mended but the hurt does go deep with many.
j.child may be one who had a bad experience with her...I don't know.

[Maddy McCall]

95. Nope, I never participated in her book or in that fiasco...

I have been a silent observer for a long time, but it's time someone spoke out about her. I have no personal issue with her, except that she has sullied a movement that had lots of potential, and all for her own financial gain.

[anamandujano]

82. Bingo to everything you've posted on this thread.

She educated us on this issue right here in the du forums.

--go Jessie go--

[merh]

27. You can ignore Bev, that is your right. Why don't you do that

and organize some protests and do something to draw attention to the "cause". Do something construction, feel good about the "cause" by doing something other than criticizing others.

[Maddy McCall]

41. I don't have to ignore this issue.

I have every right as a member of DU to state my opinion, whether you or anyone else likes it or not.

[jamboi]

61. What issue? It appears to be a personal issue for you. Why should others

care about your or anyone else's personal issues? I say if someone has personal issues they should deal with them privately and not hark them all over the rest of us here at DU.

[merh]

74. You are condemning Bev for what she is doing and say it

hurts the cause. What are you doing to help the cause? You make mistakens and when they are pointed out you don't acknowledge your mistake, you just make another snide comment. It just strikes me odd that you are quick to attack and condemn, but it doesn't appear that you have put yourself out there in an effort to help the "cause".

I am really bored with all the statements about mustn't do this, it could hurt the cause, mustn't relay that it could hurt the cause, mustn't believe him/her, they could hurt the cause.

Do what you like, who the heck cares.
:nopity:

[AmyCrat]

20. who is bev harris? hahaha just some loon who harassed people

... because she can't get over the fact Bush won.

I saw BBV get NO positive attention out of this what-so-ever.

[Catch22Dem]

35. When did * win? (n/t)

[MadAsHellNewYorker]

7. I really don't get this at all...

Wow, Bev Harris did something to get attention! Lets never support her again...that makes sense

Look, she did an outrageous stunt. Michael Moore does it (did it?) all the time....

why are we turning on her cause she did something for some media attention? am i missing a part of the story here?

[Maddy McCall]

8. When did you join DU?

You need to do an archival search on the numerous ways she has shat upon people who have assisted her, and everyone who was assisting her then realized that she was in this for herself, and not for the cause.

Just do an archival search. See what you turn up, and then come back and we'll talk about Bev Harris.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

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[Maddy McCall]

19. LOL! You're another one of Bev's defense posse...

posting here with no other intention but to protect her name.

How nice of you. :hi:

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

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[jamboi]

73. That is totally uncalled for! This poor guy does not deserve attack!

Seniority does not give anyone the right to insult.

[MadAsHellNewYorker]

18. and what should i search for? "Bev's a bitch"?

All i know is what i read from her websites and her posts here. Tonight is the first time i have read ANYTHING negative about her. Why don't you let me in on your hatred for her and just give some thing to go on...

[Maddy McCall]

22. I don't have hatred for her...

I have disgust for her, that her name has been tied so closely to a very important issue, and she is going to wreck any mainstream interest in it because she goes about things in a fucked up way.

Did you know that Bev sold Clinton Cigars during the impeachment scandal? Did you know that she has slapped just about everyone who helped her research and write the book?

Did you know she lies, lies, lies and then comes up with excuses, excuses, excuses?

Have fun looking through the archives.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

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[NVMojo]

70. maddie, you are going to bust a coronary. Chill.

or tell us why you have so much personal hatred. Wish it were directed at Bush.

[Maddy McCall]

76. LOL! Like I said before, I am stating GOOD REASONS for my distrust.

The problem is how you are taking it. Remove your Bev-colored lenses and look at the reality of this situation and look at her history.

The Cult should truly evaluate her history and decide if she is the person that you want to be the Jesus of the movement.

[Donailin]

78. Newbie?

Oh, I get it. If you don't have a thousand posts on DU, you aren't to be taken seriously. Well, Maddy, I've been posting on MB's since 1994 and I have never seen your name, so with your logic, you're not only a wannabe veteran, you're pedestrian and self absorbed as all get out. What you are accusing bev of doing is in fact the very thing you are doing.

Making yourself the center of attention -- and not to be taken seriously.

[Donailin]

58. You don't have hatred????

>>I have disgust for her, that her name has been tied so closely to a very important issue, and she is going to wreck any mainstream interest in it because she goes about things in a fucked up way.

Did you know that Bev sold Clinton Cigars during the impeachment scandal? Did you know that she has slapped just about everyone who helped her research and write the book?

Did you know she lies, lies, lies and then comes up with excuses, excuses, excuses?<<



Hmmm! Maybe she's the one who fixed the election just so she could investigate it and get all this positive media attention and money from suckers like us!

You may have suspicions and they may be legitimate, but the above is way out of line and only illuminates your character, not Bev's.

[Maddy McCall]

67. I have distrust for her and well-founded, but to the "Cult of Bev" it...

appears as hatred. That has to do with the lenses you wear, not with what I say.

[NVMojo]

66. please clarify, pissed off Maddie, an archival search where?

here or on the www?

[jamboi]

98. If you wanted to make a case that Harris is a prima dona and doesn't deser

ve our support you could have done that in a very dispassionate and effective way. But the way you put across your points majorly distracted from whatever merit your case has.

[AmyCrat]

23. see, again you are WRONG

by giving criticism I am NOT turning on her. Hopefully she can be a professional with an open-mind and say "ya know what, maybe I should have played that a little smarter"... hence it makes the cause STRONGER

[MadAsHellNewYorker]

54. Again I'm wrong? I never said you (personally) were turning on her...

but when people say things like her true self is showing, and people wasted time, money and energy on her, that is very different from the dozens of "thank yous" her posts usually get.

I never said critisim is bad, but people are jumping on her for one thing they see as a mistake-- and i don't understand where the above mentioned attacks on her "supporters" are coming from...EVEN after searching the archives (albeit just a little bit, but im working on it)

[Carl Brennan]

11. I don't give a fuck if Bev Harris breaks up a fascists party.

Anybody that is worried about protocol does not really belong at DU.

I don't give a damn how many posts someone has I think those who are acting like this is a big thing are, well, how should I say it politely, not very bright.


We should quit worrying about how we appear to the fascist controlled Press and remember that they are working day and night to destroy democracy. To hell with walking on eggshells.

[AmyCrat]

34. black or white -- are you that... uh... I won't say it

cause then you won't listen to a word I have to say, will you? See how that works?

Or I can try to talk to you like an INTELLIGENT person, and I bet we'll get a little further. I belong at DU as much as you. I believe fraud occurred. I believe a lot is wrong with the system, both intentionally and unintentionally. This is why it means a lot to me and my childrens' future that it gets changed.

And this is why it's important to me that someone like BBV gets it RIGHT. Takes opportunities to go on main stream TV when invited. Doesn't appear to be acting like a loon, but who can play the PR fiddle as slickly at the republicans.

Call me crazy or tell me to get lost if you like. But I want to see this cause get STRONGER.

[jamboi]

93. You seem to believe "Mad Maddy"s account very readily. She seems unbal

anced at the moment, so I wouldn't put much stock in what she writes here.

[Carl Brennan]

103. I think you are well intentioned. I've seen other posts by you. On

the other hand I think there are people, I call them protocol droids, who like to exploit these supposed improprieties to caste somebody like Bev in a bad light. Somebody above put it more eloquently than me.
Any attention is good attention when you ain't getting anyones attention.

I don't really think Bev did anything inappropriate, but if she did I could care less. If this country doesn't deal with the problem of voting all hell is going to break loose.

[Spiffarino]

28. Whatever Bev's motives

...are, I don't really care. The time has come for breaking glass and starting fires.

Our sacred right to vote is being stolen right in front of our noses, yet here we are worrying about how we look to middle America.

Well FUCK middle America! They're the ones who got us in this shit!

[Timebound]

29. PEOPLE, CALM DOWN.

CALM DOWN. ALL OF YOU. We do NOT want to get into a civil war over this.

We don't have the facts yet, so everyone CHILL. Infighting will only weaken us, and that is what Bush and Co. want.

I'm not DEFENDING her, I'm just saying we don't know. We need to direct our energy into other methods than fighting with each other.

[Spiffarino]

40. No Civil War desired

This isn't about one person. We're pissed because our votes have been stolen. We will never have a fair election if we don't act.

I don't care if Bev's a sinner or a saint, I just admire that she took some much-needed action. It's time for all of us who have the guts to do the same.

[AmyCrat]

42. I know this

I'm passionate about this because it matters.
I know she didn't make the best decision with this little move.
And I know that it's getting bad coverage in the main stream media (which potentially hurts the cause).

I know this cause means enough to me to say something about that so we can come together and be a STRONGER force to recon with!

Is it so wrong to say someone made a mistake? How else do you learn not to repeat it?

[Timebound]

63. Hey, don't get me wrong. Let's fight, but just not with each other.

I said 'lets not fight with each other,' not 'lets not fight at all.'

Let's get (and stay) mad at the powers that be for stealing the election. Lets take to the streets and scream. That kind of anger is good. But I think we are all a bit nervous with all the things going on (at least I am), and we are a bit paranoid with KO's new blog post. I agree that the important thing is that she is doing something.

We are all just nervous and want to know what's been done with our money. We are all angry that our election was stolen.

But guys, remember that Rove has his fingers everywhere. We can't count out the possibility that this is a Rove tatic to make us fight amongst ourselves.

Lets get mad at the government. It is okay to demand answers from Bev, but we can't turn against her until we know for sure what is going on.

[jamboi]

30. This posting sounds like a hit piece vs. Harris. "the true person you have

been supporting..." Why does it matter to you one way or the other if your speculation is correct? The tone of this posting seems to show a *lot* of personal investment for you. What does it matter to you if people support Harris?

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

65. Deleted message

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[crispini]

47. Here are my thoughts about all this.

Ever since I became aware that there was a BlackBoxVoting.ORG, and a BlackBoxVoting.COM, both very LOUDLY saying that they had nothing to do with each other, my little warning meter went off.

I have a lot of experience as an activist in various political and charitable organizations. One of the things I have noticed is that these kinds of "divorces" only happen when EGO gets involved. Activists are hot-headed, passionate people, who care a great deal and have loud public disagreements, but usually, they are able to put aside their differences and both sides can often suck it up and humble themselves enough to patch up the argument. That, quite obviously, didn't happen in this case.

Or, just two weeks ago, she got kinda torqued off about Elorial's threads over in Voting Issues. They were titled BBV Cleanup Crew. They're probably still not that far back, please go look. She came on the thread, very brusquely, and DEMANDED that the name of the thread be changed. She said something like "I have spoken to my lawyers about this." And she made a veiled accusation about Elorial's motivies. She really did not handle it well.

Actions speak louder than words. And the actions in this case are telling me that there's an awful lot of EGO involved on the part of Ms. Harris.

[Maddy McCall]

52. Actually, she said "REMOVE MY NAME FROM YOUR ORGANIZATION"

OR I WILL SUE YOU AND SUE DU.

I was there during that. IT ought to speak volumes to her "supporters."

They need to remove their blinders, where she is concerned.

[MadAsHellNewYorker]

now thats what i needed to know! n/t

[jamboi]

68. What organization. You're not being clear. What are you talking about?n/t

[Maddy McCall]

86. You've got a star. Do your own search.

Look up DU BBV Clean up Crew.

[jamboi]

101. post links if you want to make a salient point. Its your argument. n/t

[The Backlash Cometh]

96. I think it's the other way around.

People on DU tried to take Blackboxvoting's name without Bev's consent. Bev was right to be upset. She is representing herself as a non-partisan auditor out there, so it doesn't help that she comes back here having DUers co-opting her name. I believe that was cleared up with the rational people on this newsgroup.

[smartvoter]

80. That's enough for me.

I H A T E ***t like that.

[geo]

49. Not saying anything....

I am stunned at how Mr. Obermann's words rung in my ears. I wish Bev herself would comment on this. After reading Keith's blog I did wonder why my favorite advocate of transperancy wasn't showing us the Volusia video footage, especially after suit has been filed and all the details are known (and on the BBV site).

Any person who spends this much time and energy chasing such a serious transperancy issue is not likely to be manipulating us, but perhaps she is tired, worn out and feels defeated. You do odd things when you feel that way.

And Bev, if you are reading this thread... you can't give up on your fight for transperancy. Include more of us as you seem to have originally planned. Many of us across the country would follow your lead (with some guidance) in processing records requests, analyzing data, etc. The problems are widespread and you cannot do it without a larger network of people pitching in.

Warmly,

George

[Maddy McCall]

57. Oh, you can expect a comment from her...

in the form of some lame excuse. She has to keep your dollars rolling in, and whatever she needs to say to pacify her supporters, she'll say it.

[johnaries]

83. What is your REAL problem with Bev?

I don't think you're being honest with the rest of us. You seem to have a real personal problem with BBV, but your posts simply don't make any sense! Is there something the rest of us should know, or is this some kind of personal "disillusioned" vendetta? :shrug:
Some facts and perspective, please!!!!

[jamboi]

89. You sound like you have a personal problem. I've written to the Admin

to ask that this thread be locked and they take a look at your postings.

[Must_B_Free]

50. 'HELL, she had only received the papers at her office that morning'

You have your assumptions wrong.

What she didn;t respond to was the FOI request, not the lawsuit. The lack of response to the FOI was what forced Bev to serve her the papers.

The party crashing part was a stunt to try to get some media attention.

[jamboi]

104. I read they'd gotten the initial notification at least a week before and

hadn't responded.

[Vinnie From Indy]

69. WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE!

I have lurked for a long time and I finally read a post that compelled me to reply. I am stunned that anyone would make the argument that Bev Harris should be embarrassed or that she should rethink her tactics after the highly reported on LePore incident in Orlando.

The fact is that the media today is already broken. It would seem obvious that the mainstream media has abundantly demonstrated it's lack of will to report honestly on most every issue relating to Bush. In fact, they have actively promoted known falsehoods in service of the Bushies for several years. After what "the press" did to Kerry and Gore does anyone really believe that Bev Harris would ever get a fair shake regardless of the civility and politeness of her tactics? Even if she played nice, as some on this thread advocate, the whore press would still demonize her or actively report on whatever bit of manufactured slime was created by Rove and delivered to them.

If we are anything in this fight, let us not be ignorant of the field of battle on which we are fighting. The mainstream press IS going to ridicule, demonize and ignore issues as they are instructed by their masters. The press is going to give platforms to known liars and charlatans to denigrate people like Bev. To say that she "risks" our struggle because she has the stones to stand up publicly and suffer the slings and arrows in the course of a noble endeavor is not the posture that will defeat this evil band of criminals. Does anyone believe Limbaugh, Hannity, O'Reilly, Beck, Boortz, Hume, Scarborough, Savage, Dr. Laura, Safire, Carlson etc. have ever been embarrassed for a single millisecond as they spew lie after lie into the ether? Wringing our hands and discussing the response of the media to Bev Harris's stunt in Florida is indicative of the inability of many of us on the left to fully comprehend the lay of the land. We do not control the mainstream media beyond a few scattered outposts and we must realize that pretty much all of our efforts will face intense media ridicule. I salute Bev for being a symbol that there are some of us on the left that are willing to get beyond the paralysis of politeness and into the mud.

[Maddy McCall]

72. Another new "Cult of Bev" DU member.

[AmyCrat]

77. The fact is that the media

.. the main stream media, Keith Olbermann, has made a very public claim that he's been trying to get her on the show for some time now. Instead of bombarding people at retirement receptions, she could let the attorneys do that and go appear on Countdown With KO.

You can't claim the media is all against you if a very public figure is making a very public claim that he wants you and your video on his TV show but you keep saying no.

[NVMojo]

81. thanks for a shot of sanity, Vinnie!

[loritooker]

88. I second that

[farmbo]

85. Well spoken...and welcome aboard!

:toast:

[catnhatnh]

91. Absolutely...

Yep and to the nth degree EXACTLY what this guy said!!!!

[anamandujano]

109. well said and welcome newbie

Anyone who doesn't understand our MSM today is naive at best.

--go Jessie go--

[melissaf]

92. I'm a newbie

and reading all of this backbiting and in-fighting and criticizing and bitching and whining and moaning and yelling in all-caps and backstabbing and wailing and nitpicking and nitpicking the nitpickers and backbiting the backbiters just makes me want to huddle up in a corner and cry.

Can we have a civil discussion on any of this? Please? A lot of people are hurting over this election, and I realize everyone's very sensitive about the recount issue. But come on. Is this the way newbies get treated here? Does everyone with a low post count get accused of being a freeper or having some other agenda to push? Is this the way DUers treat each other all the time? Comparing each other to McCarthy, for God's sake??

Is the appropriate course of action to just shut up and go somewhere else if I don't want to see folks on my side of the battle eating each other alive? Someone fill me in, so I'll know how to react in the future.

[Maddy McCall]

97. Welcome to DU. And get used to the fighting...

If you've ever been a member of any board, you should know that when two sides disagree, there will be flame wars.

Welcome. :hi:

[melissaf]

102. thanks

I know, I know...God knows I should be inured to all the fighting at this point. But it does get wearying after a while. Particularly when we have a government that doesn't listen to us, a media system that doesn't listen to us, etc, etc.

[jamboi]

105. BS -- I've never seen any flame wars @ DU like yours. n/t

[The Backlash Cometh]

111. I don't either. How did Maddy make it this long?

[catnhatnh]

100. Sorry Mellissa

an out of nowhere highposter jumped on the site to attack one of the few activists out there....from what I've seen she has rubbed a couple of feathers wrong in the past but CHRIST....read the posts and ask yourself WHO Maddy is?

[The Backlash Cometh]

106. I've been here for several years, and this is the first thread I've

stumbled upon which has been this bad. I would suggest you walk away from this and find a more substantive thread, unless you like soap operas.

[catnhatnh]

108. Hey Lash...

...Sorry but she is a loon...

[Moderator]

112. I'm locking this thread

reason :

Flame-war full of personal attacks