Proof that Bev threatened to sue DU and the people working to...

[Maddy McCall]

support BBV efforts at DU.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=201&topic_id=3300

BevHarris (1000+ posts) Sat Nov-13-04 11:12 PM
Response to Original message

4. CHANGE TRADE NAME IMMEDIATELY


Putting you on notice that hijacking the established trade name of a 501c(3) nonprofit is actionable. I have notified the mods. Do your good work, but under a name that you create and register, with a volunteer squad name that you create and register.

If DU continues to sanction this hijack, we will take action against both DU and the people who are doing this. Have notified our lawyer, who is working on this now.

Change it. Do it now. And your blatant use of someone else's trade name does not show very good ethics.

Bev Harris
Executive Director
Black Box Voting, Inc. - a registered 501c(3) nonprofit corporation
Cleanup Crew: http://www.blackboxvoting.org/volunteer.html

[Maddy McCall]

1. And MORE PROOF

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=120&topic_id=24863

Skinner said, "If anyone wishes to take DU to court, they can contact me directly rather than send threatening notes to the moderators."

[truehawk]

71. Doesn't 501c mean NONPARTISAN

She can loose here non-profit classification if she has more than a loose association with DU

[jamboi]

95. Yes, good point. n/t

[garybeck]

208. Will Bev Harris sue anyone who says "BBV???"

What's the deal, are we not allowed to say the word Black Box Voting? This seems a little strange.

I have a website and I mention Black Box Voting on it. do I need to put a registered trademark next to it every time I say it? I think Bev Harris is being a little overly protective.

does she really have time to worry about petty things like this right now? why isn't she thankful for all the people that go to her website as a result of being on DU and other websites like mine. We only want to see her succede. We want to help her and we do help her. Geesh, I even sent her some money.

I'm confused.

[Kelvin Mace]

262. Nope,

As the person actually coined the term "black box voting" and the initials BBV, it is licensed to all for non-commercial use.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org
www.blackboxvoting.com
www.plan9.org

[Must_B_Free]

2. Red herring

easy to make something look bad taken out of context.

Bev did the right thing, she is obliged to protect her organization name and to keep anyone from inadvertantly misusing it and affecting her organization's legal status.

Let me just ask what is your objective? - are you trying to help BBV with this or are you try to smear Bev?

[crispini]

9. Click on the links

and read the context. easy.

[Truman01]

30. My objective is to call BS > BS

She didn't have to do this, and nothing she did was right. I don't get it. Just like I don't get the following:

1. Filing the flordia lawsuit late.
2. This showboat stunt that was done today.
3. The cameras tha follow her around.

None of this makes any sense. She is making a docudramma not helping out our cause.

TC

[jamboi]

47. The florida lawsuit wasn't late. FL law requires that if you're going to

"Contest" an election you have to show likeliehood that enough votes could flip so that the result would change. From what Harris has said she looked into whether she could demostrate widespread fraud and she simply couldn't meet the criteria. The lawsuit is still extremely useful for our cause and is as much as we could have expected under the limited amount of evidence she had then.

As for the other to slams, I don't have any data to prove or disprove them. I don't know what her intentions were and I won't hazard a guess. I think it is silly to try to guess what is going on in someone else's mind, especially with so little data available.

[Truman01]

62. The florida lawsuit was late, Look at the suit

It was filed one day after the deadline. She asked for that to slide because election officials had not provided full answers to her requests. Any lawyer would know that the way to handle that problem is to file the suit in a timely manner and to Move the court to compel the elected officials to abide by the sunshine law and to sanction them for not having done so.

Filing the suit late just doesn't make any sense.

Besides that, if you read the suit it is only concerning a seat on the board of elections and has NOTHING to do with the presidential race. Even if they granted her suit it would not affect the presidential race AT ALL.

I'm terribly suspicious of this whole business. I would like to see her succeed, but I don't see anything real out of this. I see actions that are calculated to make us feel there is hope. I have handled litigation on behalf of campaigns, this stinks.

Flame me if you like but that is the truth.

TC

[jamboi]

136. No, it wasn't late for fraud, just for "contesting" which she couldn't

accomplish anyway. See my other posts explaining this.

[Truman01]

140. The lawsuit specifically claimed it was late and asked

leave of the court for the untimely filing. You are wrong. Go read it. She claimed she should be excused for being late because the election officials didn't provide her requests.

TC

[Must_B_Free]

163. Too bad she wasted that day to get bumped from Olberman, then

[The Backlash Cometh]

68. Oh, so let me see, we can't get the mainstream media involved,

so she turns on her own camera so we can see IN TOTAL SUNSHINE what she's been doing and you think that's a bad thing?

[Truman01]

70. I dont really care that she did it, I just don't think it helps us at all.

[The Backlash Cometh]

74. Who is "US" exactly. Is it her blackboxvoting crew? Are you

part of that crew? If so, shouldn't you be talking amongst yourselves instead of bleeding this into DU?

[Truman01]

77. No us is democrats who suffered a stolen election n/t

[The Backlash Cometh]

98. Jesus. Bev is only one person. She's doing the best she can.

I understand the trauma you must feel, but you can't micromanage her. She's fighting impossible odds and you just have to let her finish what she started. It may be all we have left. If you've put all your hopes into Bev, maybe it's time for you to step back because it would be worse if she just gives up before she brings this to a natural conclusion.

[BrendaStarr]

278. Well said.

I don't know if it is trolls or people who have an inner need just to drag others down, but this trying to hurt Bev Harris is just sick.

We need to be doing what we can to fight the damn election theft, not fighting among ourselves.

We need people here informing us of what is going on and others who can fight off the trolls.

We need people out in the mixed boards to get the word out to the rest of the nation and we need people in the streets.

It's colder in the Ukraine this time of year than most of the US.

[alittlelark]

103. 'Doesn't help us'?

In what way does that not help?

[Truman01]

108. She was showboating.....

He serving a courtesy copy was simply a stunt for her cameras. It did nothing.

TC

[The Backlash Cometh]

116. Instead of questioning her tactics, why don't you go out on your

own crusade? I can't believe you all. You apparently aren't that much into her organization or you would be fixing the problems instead of complaining about them.

[Truman01]

125. The longer I see all of this, dare I say it....

The more I believe we just LOST. I think the way to fix it is to be better at campaigning next time. We need to be better liberals, and less of everything.

[The Backlash Cometh]

173. Truman, you can count on me NOT being there with you.

[Maddy McCall]

201. I'm sure he's disappointed.

:eyes:

[alittlelark]

134. MM does the same - it is the only way to get the

Progaganda-based MSM to look for a second or so.

[jamboi]

3. Your last thread has been locked and I just asked that this one be locked

too. Actually the posting you put up by Harris appears quite reasonable. Intellectual property is not stealable in the U.S. and that would definitely include the name of a non profit organization!

[Maddy McCall]

20. The last one was locked because some people here

can't respond without saying things like "screw you" or calling others "mad cows," not because of the content.

Did you know that Bev was tombstoned a year ago because of the shit she stirred up here, but Skinner reconsidered and allowed her to come back?

The lawsuit threat has caused him to keep a cautious eye on her, though. So feel free to report me to Skinner. LOL!!

[The Backlash Cometh]

69. So...if I call you mad cow again, will they lock this one too?

Testing....mad cow.

[Maddy McCall]

81. LOL! No, because I am not getting suckered into a flame war with idiots.

[The Backlash Cometh]

85. Now careful maddy, Remember what you told the newbie in the

first thread. You said these flamewars were common on DU. That, personally, has not been my experience, but you recognized that the first thread was just that, a flame war and you were a big part of it.

[Maddy McCall]

90. Ad Hominem

Flame wars are common and get threads locked. I'm not going to be baited into this one. Bye. :hi:

[jamboi]

138. LOL, Ad Hominem seems to be you're forte. n/t

[The Backlash Cometh]

82. Damn. Didn't work. We're still here.

[NavyDem]

4. Where does it say lawsuit?

I see "we will take action against both DU and the people who are doing this". Could that action possibly be a formal Cease and Desist?

[Atman]

11. ACTION and ACTIONABLE are legal terms

meaning you've done something you can be sued for.

[Maddy McCall]

14. Exactly.

It's a threat to sue.

[NavyDem]

26. So you're saying...

that a formal cease and desist is not considered "Action"?

[Maddy McCall]

36. Are you capable of realizing that a "cease and desist" is a threat to sue?

[NavyDem]

45. Yes I do.

And for that matter, it would be the next logical step should the informal cease and desist be ineffective.

What exactly is the point? Are your feelings hurt because Bev didn't say "cut it out" nice enough? She's a lot nicer than I would be.

[Atman]

39. Different context

Remember, we're talking LEGAL terms. Lawyers don't write and say "we're gonna sue your ass off." They say it more like "there is ample evidence suggesting such postings are actionable." Picking your nose is an ACTION, but it's a different word altogether. The lawyer's version means THEY will take ACTION if you don't stop what they're accusing you of.

[Truman01]

117. No cease and desist was what she was doig there n/t

[catnhatnh]

5. Give up Maddy...

...or at least admit to those entering that your last thread was locked by the Moderator after youn accused Bev of "selling cigars to clinton"...

[MadAsHellNewYorker]

7. you've gotten so many posts out of Maddy...lol n/t

[Maddy McCall]

12. I did not accuse her of selling cigars to Clinton

She sold $5 cigars on her website called "Clinton Cigars."

Jeez, you people jump to some silly conclusions.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Syrinx]

31. what the hell did Maddy McCall lie about?

Where?

[Maddy McCall]

38. They are too emotionally invested in Bev to be objective.

I realize that, so I am cutting them some slack.

[Bouncy Ball]

51. Pot. Kettle. Black.

[Maddy McCall]

56. Show me one post when I have demonstrated any kind of

emotional attachment to this issue.

[Bouncy Ball]

66. The very fact that you are worrying this subject

like a dog with a bone proves emotional investment in it. You have just GOT to show everyone how AWFUL she is, right? And in another thread you made hateful little remarks about her. Hate is most definitely an emotion.

Seriously, I mean this in all sincerity, you might need to step back from this issue a bit.

[jamboi]

115. Ha. LOL. All tonight!!!! n/t

[Maddy McCall]

135. Waiting for the link!

Please post.

[jamboi]

139. You've littered the board w/ them tonight. n/t

[Maddy McCall]

143. Waiting for the link.

Won't respond to you until you provide one. :-)

[jamboi]

236. Eyes wide shut. Look everywhere. n/t

[The Backlash Cometh]

64. I haven't spent a penny on Bev's organization. But she's working

her rear end off and is personally committed to what she's doing. That's enough for me. You on the other hand, what have you done? Let me see your references.

[Metatron]

76. cigar link

Here's the link to the clinton cigar/talion site:
http://web.archive.org/web/19991112034903/http://www.talion.com/cigar.htm

[LoZoccolo]

6. From now on use USTBV instead.

It means "un-seeable-through-box voting". I made it up, and people can use it all they want for all I care.

[Atman]

16. What's wrong with simply e-voting?

E-voting and EV are shorter anyway.

BTW, tonight Olberman said Bev may be proof that the BBV'ers really are wearing a bit too much tinfoil. His words. He said this before the story about her little appearance at the Florida gig. He kinda made her out to be kooky.

[LoZoccolo]

22. That is probably actionable as well.

Now I'm pretty sure no one has used USTBV.

[The Backlash Cometh]

80. He could also be trying to draw her out.

Get her to come on his show to explain herself. I'm sure she'll do it when she's good and ready.

[johnaries]

8. Again, Maddy, WHAT is your personal vendetta against Bev?

You've already had one thread locked. Dozens of people, including lawyers, have refuted you at every step. What does it take?

[crispini]

13. Read the links.

And then tell us what you think.

[The Backlash Cometh]

88. The links have been read, opinions have been rendered,

the flame war continues. Another productive day all around.

[m berst]

79. being accused of accusing the accusers

And around we go. I strongly object to your post.

To say "WHAT is your personal vendetta against Bev?" Is away to smear the OP without coming right out and stating your "case" against her.

"You've already had one thread locked."

We don't know why that thread was locked.

"Dozens of people, including lawyers, have refuted you at every step. What does it take?"

Yes, and dozens of Creationists have refuted evolution here tonight.

I really don't like the jeering, the taunting, the innuendos and the piling on. It reminds me of gangs of hoodlums and it gives me the creeps.

[tbuddha]

10. SOUNDS LIKE SHE HAD GOOD REASON TO SAY WHAT SHE SAID

[smartvoter]

25. But she could have handled it better. I can see why it rubbed some

people the wrong way.

[smartvoter]

15. In this one, I see it. No excuse for that behavior -- that's the person

who crashed the ceremony.

She could have handled that so much better, you have to scratch your head. People here financially support her efforts, afterall.

[aquart]

50. Gosh. You're scratching your head, are you?

Funny, I've got a feeling of infestation, too.

I see the same names starting thread after thread to malign Bev Harris and her work. The same names piping up to support the deliberate and calculated smears.

Build those post counts! I know disinformation campaigns when I see them.

[smartvoter]

86. Give it a rest. You're paranoid.

I can see why she rubbed some the wrong way and I thought it was dumb because she is supported financially here. I also have said that she is not only in her right, but obligated to protect the name. Just could have handled it better.

If you think I'm a plant or Freeper or whatever, you're off your rocker. And pathetic.

[alittlelark]

123. Jeepers Creepers!

DU is just crawling with......

[smartvoter]

131. LOL! Don't stand still. We'll get you...

[alittlelark]

137. We'll stand together and GET YOU.

[smartvoter]

160. BWAHHHAAAA!!!! Don't know what's funnier...

You thinking I'm a Freeper or you your threat of unified defense while this very exchange is divisive.

Crazy out here sometimes.

I'm done with this exchange, FYI. Think what you like...

[alittlelark]

161. I shall.

[YellowDoginthehouse]

240. ROFLMAO!!!

yup, it sure is.

[jamboi]

17. You just come off as a loon. A total wack. Sad. If you were trying to

critique Harris it hasn't worked.

[Maddy McCall]

23. Trying to get this one locked by starting another flame war?

Sorry, I won't play your game. :loveya:

[jamboi]

37. Your words got that locked. Don't try to put it on anyone else. n/t

[m berst]

87. you are awfully aggressive

I object to members being isolated and attacked, and I have seen you ringleading several of these gang attacks on a member.

I object to the tone and to the methods being used.

[jamboi]

142. You're confusing me w/ someone else. If that were true I'd be upset w/

someone who did that too. That is exactly the behavior that I'm objecting to in Maddy, and she attacked a number of newbies tonight. I'm standing up to that. That is all.

[IndyPriest]

48. Jamboi, I think your instincts about this are

about right on the money. Looks to me that some sharp elbows were thrown under the basket a while ago and people are still smarting about it.

I'm old enough to remember similar elbow throwing in the hot days of the civil rights movement. Same questioning of motives, strategies, costs, reputations, etc., against similar problems provoked by similar political regimes. Looking back, we figured out it took ALL strategies, ALL hands, ALL energies. We are the classic street pick-up team. No coach around to call the shots, bring the team together courtside, band some heads. In the game we're in, we need to keep chanting to each other: keep your eye on the ball.

[YellowDoginthehouse]

244. Actually, Indy-they're the SAME REGIMES!

just fast-forwarded 35 years.

[LoZoccolo]

18. I'm just upset she went on here one night...

...giving us five things to do for Help America Audit and saying we could help verify counties for the recount, and I wrote in with my email and said I could maybe help but I don't know what they want me to do. What was that all for? Some PR is in order, especially from someone who works in PR.

[AmyCrat]

19. be objective people.

Yes, Bev has the right (and obligation) to protect the trade name.

Bev also has the ability to be NICER about it, especially with a group of people who you'd think she wants to continue to have a friendly-working relationship with.

"Change it. Do it now. And your blatant use of someone else's trade name does not show very good ethics."

That isn't a professional way to put, nor a nice way. That's the way I'd expect to see it written if she were writing to a republican website trying to use her trade name in a misrepresenting way.

[jamboi]

24. yeah be objective, like this Maddy character? Nice example! n/t

[AmyCrat]

28. made no statement about Maddy...

Maddy didn't say much. She posted Bev's words and that's what I was commenting on.

[smartvoter]

35. Everyone's Worked Up. Maybe We Should Drop the BBV/Olbermann thing.

[LoZoccolo]

84. Hey, what is the Olbermann thing?

I missed that. Something about she won't give them a tape?

[smartvoter]

96. Read his blog. (link below)

http://www.bloggermann.com/

It has created quite a stir.

[jamboi]

114. Hmmm.... Well he's got some potentially valid critique. Our effort can not

be dependent on any one link in the chain. Not even BBV. BHarris seems to be so very focused on non-partisanship that they aren't too worried about overturning the election, and I say that's fine. Its not what I would wish, but I can understand that position. We can't wait on MoveOn, Michael Moore, Bev Harris, or even John Kerry. We just have to keep moving forward, and biting and scratching each other will not accomplish that.

[smartvoter]

154. I agree with that.

[alittlelark]

132. Jeepers Creepers

maybe the .... would love us to!!!

[smartvoter]

185. Flake.

[alittlelark]

272. Now I know for a FACT who you are posting with

THANKS!!!!

[Maddy McCall]

40. Some people are way to emotionally invested in bev to be objective...

Their harsh reaction is a result of the truth being revealed to them. They are attacking the messenger instead of the message.

Tomorrow, they will come to their senses.

[jamboi]

89. You don't appear to be at all objective. Is this you projecting?

Me I've never worked w/ B.Harris, don't know her, never talked to her or you. All I care about is that the "crims" get nailed, and I don't give a rip who gets the credit. We just have to bring the bad guys down and we can't do that by fighting about petty crap. Your postings seem to aim to waste people's energy on your own issues. Who cares about your or my issues? Our big issue is did Bush steal the election and if so how can we prove it?

[Maddy McCall]

106. Posting comments that bev has made threatening to sue DU.

You say I'm not objective. Yet you attack anyone who posts anything that brings the messiah into question. Perhaps it is you who is projecting.

[jamboi]

119. Calling BH "Messiah" is a perfect example of your hyperbole 2nite. n/t

[Kathy in Cambridge]

32. And why should we trust you?

You've been here for less than a week and you start breathing flames? Nice way to win friends and influence people...

[smartvoter]

52. So if her viewpoint isn't yours, she's not trustworthy?

Isn't everyone getting a little emotional over this thing? I see truth in both sides. Bev had a right (actually, an obligation) to protect the name, but she could have handled it much better than she did.

This is wasted energy.

[Maddy McCall]

57. No, but if she threatened to sue DU, then she isn't trustworthy.

Add to that the history she has even just at DU. Wake up, people.

[smartvoter]

75. Maddy, I was responding to another person.

However, for the record, I see your point. I think you are entitled to it. I saw the posts and think Bev was out of line in the way she handled it.

I happen to know, from my own pain in the ass experience, that Bev is right. When you have a trademark, you are obligated to protect it. She could not post here without saying something about it because she couldn't claim she didn't know it was being used.

That said, I'm not a Bev fan myself. She seems caught up in trying to be THE person, claiming she hasn't activated volunteers because they'll get their "butts kicked." Meanwhile, their progress is agonizingly slow -- just one county has been challenged.

Take this blended view however you like. I still think this is wasted energy, but I see why she rubs you the wrong way.

[AmyCrat]

53. you talking to me?

I was going to say more, but I'll wait for your answer.

[m berst]

91. I agree

I don't like this. It is like watching a pack of wolves at work on their latest victim.

[jamboi]

94. In this and other threads 2 nite Maddy has personally attacked several

newcomers that disagreed w/ her. And she attacked you by mistake. Is that the kind of example you want to follow? I had seen zero flame wars so far before tonight.

[Maddy McCall]

99. And you've been a member for, what, one week?

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[jamboi]

130. And youre seniority allows you to * all over anyone you choose?

Don't think so.

[The Backlash Cometh]

150. If this were a democracy, I'd vote to have maddy kicked out of here

[Maddy McCall]

159. LOL!

Too bad for you. :(

[AmyCrat]

100. haven't figured out if you're talking to me but

I'm here more than a week. It's closer to a month.

I don't believe I've actually flamed anyone. Just disagreed (and probably pretty adamently at times).

I don't need to win friends. People will or will not like me. If you don't, you're entitled to feel that way. As for influence? All I'm trying to share here is a way to make this cause BETTER so we aren't all seen as wacko-conspiracy-theorists.

In reply to this post, I think what I said was pretty clear. If you don't want to "trust" me for telling you to be objective... okay, don't.

And if I'm wrong and you weren't talking to me -- just ignore what I said above LOL :P

[Karenca]

178. Amycrat

She's talking to Jamboi, not you :)

[m berst]

92. this is out of line

This is character assasination.

[Maddy McCall]

97. LOL! Then maybe I'll get a "cease and desist" too.

:-)

[m berst]

104. sorry Maddy

Hope you don't think I meant to direct my comment at you, and sorry that I responded to some of these people and possibly escalated things.

[jamboi]

102. Just look at MM's postings tonight. She used char. assas. foul language,

etc. Which didn't make her point at all. Constructive criticism would've gotten a reasonable audience and support, but that isn't what she'd offered. Reads like a personal vendetta.

[m berst]

109. stop it

You are involved in all kinds of these feuds, and you typically turn things around on the person you are attacking.

Even were what you say true - "She did it first!" - it is no excuse for your behavior.

Let's say Maddy is what you imply she is - a disrupter trying to stop the lines of investigation that you think we should be following. That IS what you are usually trying to imply about other members, is it not? Hinting and using innuendo and personal attacks is not the way to do that, and if anything, you bring MORE suspicion on Bev's efforts, and the other efforts that you so aggressively defend, by using these slur and smear tactics.

[jamboi]

124. I think you must have me confused w/ someone else. I've never spoken out

against anyone else and I'm not using "slur and smear" tactics. It is this over the top behavior by Maddy that has already gotten one of her threads locked tonight that is full of inuendo, slur and smear.

[m berst]

144. no

I stand by what I said.

[jamboi]

223. Yes. n/t

[Maddy McCall]

164. No, sweetie.

You and the rest of the posse got the thread locked by hurling insults. The only thing I did wrong was respond in kind to you.

No more, though. I see your tactics and I am not playing your nasty little game.

I still say that you need to grow up, though. I know that your disappointment in learning all you have about Bev tonight has been overwhelming.

Chin up. It'll get better when we have a TRUE leader promoting this movement.

:loveya:

[jamboi]

227. Yes sweetie. I'm not part of any "posse". I have no care about BH

You started the nasty stuff and you got your own thread locked. I'm very suprised that this one has not been locked yet. I am not concerned one way or the other about whatever your personal vendetta is agains BH. I'm happy to hear critique on whoever, but it needs to be made non-emotionally and logically. Otherwise its is without value.

[smartvoter]

29. I agree. She's actually required to protect it, but can be nice about it

[jamboi]

127. Agreed. The law requires that you notify those that impinge on your proper

ty, but you can certainly do it in a nice way.

[NVMojo]

27. get over it!

[Blue in the face]

33. Move on

In one of your last posts, you made accusations that Bev made up the fact that she was invited to be on Countdown. Someone pointed out with Keith's own words that you were flat out wrong. Unless you spoke with Bev and found out why she wrote the post, then you are again just inflamming a situation without having all the facts.

I know I'll be attacked for only having 100 posts, but screw it. Whatever your reasons are for ignoring the larger issue of election fraud to instead pursue a personal vendetta against a fellow DUer, you're not making yourself look good and your not doing a damn thing to help the more important cause.

What do you think you're going to accomplish by making this issue about Bev Harris? Do you think it will help morale? Do you think it will provide the big break that everyone is looking for to prove fraud? I come on this board to get intelligent analysis and see where I can help get Bush out of office. What does this shit with Bev have to do with either?

I don't care that I'll be blacklisted after this post, but I think it's ridiculous that for the past week we've had posters waste time and energy arguing about what someone else is doing to take out Bush. Earlier this week it was about Bozos for Bush going after Auditors, now it is one clique versus another.

Real productive. Somewhere Karl Rove is laughing his sleazy ass off at us sniping at each other instead of working to put his ass in jail where it belongs.

[Maddy McCall]

42. And now she won't share the video with him.

I wonder why? Could it be because there IS no video???

Wake up, people.

[Blue in the face]

67. What are you talking about?

You didn't even know that she was invited on Keith Olbermann's show. Now you can definitively say there is no video? Where's your proof there?

[merh]

83. Maddy - my post had a mistake - she won't show them the

poll tapes - sorry for the mistake, I typed video when I meant tapes. I went back to correct my mistake but the thread was locked. :shrug:

I can't blame Bev, I wouldn't give anyone the poll tapes that I found at the election headquarters in bags marked to be shreaded and/or trashed either. I wouldn't trust anyone with them, they are hard evidence of the corruption.

Sorry for the mistake in my post.

(edit: because I continue to make mistakes and misspell words. :dunce:)

[Maddy McCall]

277. No, Olbermann said she won't show him the video

And that leaves people to wonder why not?

Is it because she doesn't have said video, or is it because she wants to keep it all to herself and reap whatever financial windfall it will bring?

[Goldmund]

151. "Move On" IS A PROTECTED TRADE NAME. CEASE AND DESIST.

:evilgrin:

[Maddy McCall]

166. LOL!

[Catherine Vincent]

34. Can't we all just get along?

It needed to be said.:-)

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Maddy McCall]

43. LOL! Keep on alerting.

I haven't broken any DU rules. Telling someone that you have alerted on them is indeed breaking DU rules. Perhaps you should go back and read them.

[RaulVB]

46. Why my tread is locked?

AND NOT THE TREADS THAT STARTED THE CIRCUS???

[liberal43110]

44. Another Post from Bev

There's another post from Bev regarding the lawsuit/name change. I believe it was titled "Tortious Request."

[Bouncy Ball]

49. Why are you doing this?

Just why?

And you can't accuse me of playing favorites, because I've never even frequented this board much and I've never given any money to Bev's organization, etc.

I'm just wondering why so incredibly hateful?

[Maddy McCall]

55. What exactly is hateful about posting HER words that SHE posted...

two weeks ago? People said I was lying when I said that she threatened to sue DU. Now they see I'm not lying, so they are attacking me instead.

Looks like Bev's supporters are very irrational when questions about her ethics are raised.

[Bouncy Ball]

72. I knew you'd try that.

But I can't be called a "Bev supporter" since I've pretty much stayed out of this stuff since the election. One post (by Fescue4) on the latest page brought me to it and I see all this mess.

I don't have a dog in this fight except that I HATE TO SEE PEOPLE WHO ARE FIGHTING **FOR** US DENIGRATED BY PEOPLE ON OUR SIDE, for crying out loud!

It's fucking ridiculous. Let it go, before you get to looking like a bitter hag about her. You already seem a bit stalker-ey with it. I've read your posts for a long time and really liked you a lot, but this side of you, I've never seen and quite honestly, it has me a bit baffled.

It's like she came in your house and pissed right in your breakfast cereal or something.

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Maddy McCall]

63. Now your post takes the cake!

LOL! Yep, that's me. I'm Rove's DU agent. Deep cover, baby. :eyes:

Actually, I have tremendously outstanding Dem credentials. And I am a liberal, too--just one who doesn't fall for any line of horsehockey that comes down the pike.

[The Backlash Cometh]

107. Well, judging by your bitterness, it appears that you believe you

did fall for horsehockey at some point.

I just can't believe how bitter you all are because she's filming a documentary. At this point, if I had spent the kind of money you appear to have spent on Bev's organization, I would demand no less.

[Kelvin Mace]

121. The is tactic #1

If you "attack" Bev, you work for Karl Rove.

You could be Paul effin' Wellstone back from the dead, but disagree with Bev and you are one of Karl's paid assassins.

David Allen

[Maddy McCall]

126. Hi, David!

Here's the guy who was burned the worst by Bev Harris. Glad you stopped by. :hi:

[IndyPriest]

148. Plan9: why "attack" at all?

I surmise you're putting "attack" in quotes because you don't think Bev has been attacked at all. But the evidence from this and several other threads really looks like Maddy would like to rip out Bev's throat if she could. As I remember, this started on a thread that was applauding Bev's gamble that serving a copy of a lawsuit to LaPone might do some good. Maddy went absolutely balistic. At least tonite, it hasn't been a matter of "disagreeing" with Bev. It's been much more like wanting to drive a stake through her. And that does makes me wonder.

[Maddy McCall]

169. You are too emotionally invested in Bev's personality to be objective

[Kelvin Mace]

174. Many, many old timers around here

have watched the rise and fall of this issue and many have seen how Bev has mistreated and smeared other people who helped her. I think the grandstanding in Florida may have been some folks breaking point.

The "attacks" on Bev seem to have started over the situation in Florida an then the very real attacks on Keith O. who until now was praised as a hero, but now is Satan.

Been there, done that, have the scars to remember it by.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[The Backlash Cometh]

153. I'm just wondering why any real activist would want to stick around

here.

[The Backlash Cometh]

155. I don't think Paul Wellstone would have attacked Bev.

But I do think you are without class to use him in this manner.

[Kelvin Mace]

177. Spare me

the indignation. I've gotten a bellyfull of it.

I'll compare liberal credentials any time. Mine go back to the 80's and don't involve peddling Monica cigars for money to the Rush Limbaugh crowd.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[dmac]

54. sorry - this is probably not the right place to ask this but

what does it mean when a topic gets "locked"? I was just on another thread and when I tried to reply to a post, reply was no longer an option and it said the topic was locked. Is this something that happens if things get out of hand?

[AmyCrat]

59. yeah, moderators will lock it n/t

[Catherine Vincent]

61. Yes, if there are too many personal attacks or flame wars.

It also gets locked if inappropriate or if a freeper started it.

[Lil]

60. Any chance this can be put on back burner & spend energy on Fraud & Iraq?

Plenty of time to deal with this when the big fights are won, IMHO.

[merh]

65. There appears to be a legitimate concern regarding the

unauthorized use of the 501(c)3 tradename. It may be a legitmate concern relative to the ability of the corporation to maintain the status. She may have to answer to the volunteer work done by folks here on DU, even if she didn't ask them to volunteer and they just offered the help.

I am aware of those threads regarding the early BBV research and the book. I never took part in them because they ended up just being a lot of people bickering with each other. The point is, Bev may have had a legitimate concern and yes, she probably could have expressed her concerns in a more diplomatic way. She may have ulterior motives relative to her activities, that is true. But then again, maybe she is frustrated and tired and has been trying to work within the system and was being ignored. Attacks on her as just as harmful to the "cause" as you claim her actions have been. (imho)
I hope you find peace.

501(c) info from the IRS site:

Exemption Requirements
To be tax-exempt as an organization described in IRC Section 501(c)(3) of the Code, an organization must be organized and operated exclusively for one or more of the purposes set forth in IRC Section 501(c)(3)

(snip)

Measuring Lobbying Activity: Substantial Part Test
Whether an organization’s attempts to influence legislation constitute a substantial part of its overall activities is determined on the basis of all the pertinent facts and circumstances in each case. The IRS considers a variety of factors, including the time devoted (by both compensated and volunteer workers) and the expenditures devoted by the organization to the activity, when determining whether the lobbying activity is substantial.

Under the substantial part test, an organization that conducts excessive lobbying activity in any taxable year may lose its tax-exempt status, resulting in all of its income being subject to tax. In addition, a religious organization is subject to an excise tax equal to five percent of its lobbying expenditures for the year in which it ceases to qualify for exemption.

Further, a tax equal to five percent of the lobbying expenditures for the year may be imposed against organization managers, jointly and severally, who agree to the making of such expenditures knowing that the expenditures would likely result in the loss of tax-exempt status.

http://www.irs.gov/charities/charitable/article/0,,id=120703,00.html

http://www.irs.gov/charities/charitable/article/0,,id=96099,00.html

[LoZoccolo]

73. The basic issue, I think, is this right here.

People want to go do whatever they can to help with these election problems, so someone posted a call for people to go do something they thought of, and the reason they tried to go get people to do this themselves is it doesn't look like BBV Cleanup Crew is doing much. See my other post in this thread about the non-response to my volunteering email.

[Maddy McCall]

78. That is a very valid point.

And when it comes from trustworty DUers like you, others should take note.

:hi:

[m berst]

absolutely 100% agreed

And I am tired of seeing good, reliable long-term members get lynched by the same pack of relative new comers whenever they dare to inject a note of caution into some of these "investigations."

Sorry to rant, but it is really despicable behavior to gang up on a member using taunts and innuendo, and to flood a thread with a bunch of inflammatory one-liners.

[The Backlash Cometh]

111. Then why don't you organize something yourself?

If you have such a fine list of credentials, why don't you start your own webpage and get volunteers to do what you say Bev Harris isn't doing?

[Maddy McCall]

120. I absolutely have organized.

And I have my own webpage for the organization in which I am the legislative director. Don't assume that I am an armchair Democrat. I am in the field all of the time.

[jamboi]

133. Your not helping here tonight, that's for sure. n/t

[Maddy McCall]

146. Helping whom?

You should see my PM box. I've received over thirty PMs from people thanking me for exposing this. :-)

[jamboi]

152. Helping our cause. n/t

[The Backlash Cometh]

158. How do you know they're not from freepers?

[Maddy McCall]

176. Because the majority of them are from people who have...

been posting in the BBV threads AND most of them are from high post count DUers.

And many of them are from people with whom I have had personal correspondence with, including phone calls with some of them whom I consider my friends.

Is everyone who thinks Bev has no credibility a freeper to you??? LOL!

[alittlelark]

249. HAHAHAHA - fraud exists everywhere!

[alittlelark]

246. please post them.

ask first - I guarantee ALL will be willing to have their names known.

[m berst]

149. that is not for you to say

I find it very helpful.

[jamboi]

220. I just said it. Ripping this board apart is not being helpful. If we want

to critique Harris's performance that is very easily done w/o this emotional ad hominem attack on Harris. It is not convincing, and clouds whatever value the arguments might have.

[alittlelark]

156. Could you post a link to it?

Thanks!

[Maddy McCall]

170. Nope.

Unlike Bev, I will retain my anonymity at DU. I don't desire to be a messiah. I work in my home state and in my community as an activist, and I don't desire kudos.

[alittlelark]

179. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

uh, yeah.

[Maddy McCall]

181. Give me your phone number and I'll call you.

That sounds like a fair trade. Give me your phone number, and I'll call you and we can discuss my credentials and the website.

Ok? Right now, I will call. All you have to do is give me your phone number through PM.

[Maddy McCall]

188. Waiting. If you really want my credentials, give me your phone number.

[Maddy McCall]

190. Hmmmm....well, looks like you're accusations against me just fell hollow

I anteed up and you walked away. :shrug:

[alittlelark]

192. Give me yours and I'll call you.

after I take the kids to school tommorrow 8:45, and before work 9:45 PST - that gives you 35 minutes (gotta wash up). PM me.

[Maddy McCall]

193. Why won't you give me your phone number.

I'll be glad to call you. You asked for proof, so I'll call you and give it to you. Won't cost you a dime.

Just PM it to me.

[alittlelark]

196. Babe, I live in Los Altos and the $$$ is not an issue.

YOU are the one with SOMETHING to prove. PM ME

Put up or...

[Maddy McCall]

199. If you want me to expose my identity, then you will have to expose

yours to me. In the name of fairness, give me your identity, and I'll give you mine. You questioned my credentials, so I'll be happy to provide them, at risk of revealing my identity to you. As long as you give me your identity, I'll give you mine, and we will BOTH have a stake in retaining each other's identity.

You put up, and I'll put up. The dollars aren't a question for me, either.

[alittlelark]

202. I have no issue w/ revealing my personna

PM me w/ your #

[Maddy McCall]

203. If you don't mind exposing your real identity, then give me your phone #

I am tiring of your little game. You called me out and told me to reveal my identity. Fine, I will reveal it to you. Give me your phone number so I can call you and do so.

:shrug:

[alittlelark]

207. You are called out as a tool and a fool - GO AWAY!!!!

'Your little game' - uh, yeah, the one YOU STARTED? You are embarassing. Get a boy/girl friend, get laid, and get a life (your profile shows nothing, so I'm being 'politically correct').

You people make me sick.

[Maddy McCall]

210. And I am supposed to reveal myself to someone with your attitude.

I don't think so.

[alittlelark]

212. You had the chance when I did not know how

far gone you were.... you lost that chance


OH, and you never PM'ed me

[Maddy McCall]

215. I see. So you call me out, and I respond in kind...

That you should provide info about yourself if you expect me to do so.

And now you reneg. You are so transparent.

[alittlelark]

237. 'transparent' using my words now are we?

[Maddy McCall]

213. LOL! I ante up, and just ask you to give me what you want me to give you.

And you can't deal with it. LOL!

[alittlelark]

216. UH, no PM, no phone #, no anything

uh, yeah..........................................

[Maddy McCall]

218. Exactly. I just checked my PM again, and you haven't responded.

Give me your phone number, and I'll call. Waiting.

[alittlelark]

222. PUH-lease.... you are creepy to the nth degree, whereas

many here will attest to my sanity. Perhaps you are just a normal 'fairy tale creature', but perhaps not - how many kids do YOU have to look out for

Sorry to sound paranoid, but - you are odd. Odd can be both good and bad.

[Maddy McCall]

226. Quit avoiding the topic.

You want me to reveal my identity to you with no cost to you. Doesn't work that way. IF you want to know who I am, and for chrissake I can't figure out WHY, then you have to do the same.

It's not that hard to understand.

[alittlelark]

230. You are now TRANSPARANT

go away.

[Maddy McCall]

239. If you have an MA, you should know that it's "transparent."

:-)

[alittlelark]

243. Please, all, excuse the 12:30 am spelling!!!!

I AM SOOOO ASHAMED!!!!!!

[alittlelark]

275. 2 responding posts 3 min apart... soo interesting how they evolve

evolution is OK, ......right?

[alittlelark]

205. I just now looked at your 'profile'

you expose NOTHING.

My profile shows an image - not a profile - of who I am.... you are not of interest to me any longer, if you really want some form of contact, you better PM me with REALITY!

[Maddy McCall]

209. What a hoot.

I am talking about giving you damned near my resume'. Not some stupid info in my profile.

[alittlelark]

214. uh, yeah..... sure.... oh yeah

[Maddy McCall]

217. So, it's your turn...

what are your creds? YOu criticize mine, so what are yours??

[alittlelark]

219. Babe, you are living in either an ULTIMATE paranoid fantasy

or in a deep region of truth....... who am I to say what is (in your mind) real or fantasy?

My creds. BA- Anth ; MS Soc

Aside from that I am just another working person attempting to make the world a better place.



Uh, what are yours?

[Maddy McCall]

221. BA History MA History PhD ABD History

Democratic Executive committee, advisor to Young Democrats.
Advisor to College Democrats.
Legislative Advisor to Democratic Women and Website designer for them.

Much more, but I think you get the point.

[alittlelark]

229. Where did you go to school?

[Maddy McCall]

232. Too personal to post on a very public message board.

Anyone with an ounce of common sense would understand why.

[alittlelark]

234. uh, yeah..................................................................

.......................................yeah

[Maddy McCall]

238. LOL! Why are you so obsessed with knowing who I am?

It's getting a little freaky. I guess "Enemy of Bev's" need reveal their identity before they speak? That's silly.

[alittlelark]

242. Babe, I was not the first to ask for a phone #, or any info

YOU WERE! I will post your PM if you continue. I doubt you care, $$$ by the hour, or is it by the post?

[Maddy McCall]

245. You have lost your mind!

I am reporting this one to skinner. He can look at PMs and verify that I HAVE NOT EVER PM'd you.

You are fucking crazy!

[Maddy McCall]

247. And I have already discussed this with a mod.

I haven't PM'd you, and you damned well know it.

If I had PM'd you, you would have posted any info about me already, so deep is your irrational hatred of me.

Loon.

[alittlelark]

252. You are right!!! It was your pal 'onesmartvoter'

my deepest apologies....I feel terrible.

No, really I do

Really

I do

[Maddy McCall]

254. I don't even know who onesmartvoter is.

Never saw him/her ever in DU until tonight. Just because someone happens to agree with me does NOT make them my pal. :shrug:

[alittlelark]

259. I am CERTAIN you do not

mirrors suck sometimes.

[Maddy McCall]

264. WTF are you talking about?

Thank god I didn't reveal my identity to you. You are fucking nuts.

My last post to you. You want someone to vouch for me, which is crazy in itself, then talk to David below.

Goodnight.

[alittlelark]

270. You may not be pals... but you are soul-sisters1

goin' to bed...

[alittlelark]

257. In retrospect, you do not deny that you asked for all my info

This is ORWELLIAN. You are screaming negative on a reverse positive and ignoring that which was the original issue.

I hope you get extra credit!!!

[Maddy McCall]

263. Excuse me? No, you asked for my website address!

Which you could use to ascertain my identity. I told you that if you wanted my identity, then just PM me your phone number, and I would give it to you. You wanted me to bare all, while you remained in your little anonymous world.

I'm smarter than that. MUCH smarter. You've already threatened to post some imaginary PM you thought I sent you on this public board.

And I am supposed to be stupid enough to give you my website, and, thus, personal info about myself?

LOL! Sorry. You can just keep asking. Ain't gonna happen.

Since when did someone have to have verifiable credentials to criticize a public figure? Yeah, it is indeed Orwellian...and Bush-like.

My last response to you. Now you can respond to David below, who has made you a GREAT offer to remedy your curiosity about me.

If you refuse to answer him, then your game just came to an end and YOU have too been exposed. Byebye.

[alittlelark]

269. DANM, you are more PARANOID than 99% of the DU!!!

That is hard to do!!! Good Job!:toast:

[alittlelark]

274. Paranoia will destroy 'ya

bye bye!

<edited for freeper spelling>

[alittlelark]

268. Gotta go to bed, but you are one of the WIERDEST

I have come across. How did you get so high? You did a good job, now, GO AWAY.... I've gotta snooze, hubby is calling me to bed.....

[Maddy McCall]

224. Oh, and my PhD minor is in Archaeo...

so we actually have something in common. :eyes:

[alittlelark]

231. What school? What year?

[Maddy McCall]

235. BA 2000 MA 2002 PhD 2004

Won't reveal on this very public message board anything additional that will reveal my identity. PM offer is still open.

[Kelvin Mace]

253. I can settle the whole issue

CALL ME, and I'll vouche for Maddy.

My info is posted on my web site plan9.org

Will you be demanding my credentials or can you find Google by yourself?

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org
www.balckboxvoting.com
www.plan9.org

[Maddy McCall]

256. THANK YOU, DAVID!

I appreciate it, very much!

[Maddy McCall]

265. She isn't going to call you.

She wanted me to reveal my identity so she and the rest of the Bev Briggade could harrass me.

[alittlelark]

271. Credentials or google........................

Uh,yeah......Plan 9.

[noiretextatique]

189. hmm...you don't seem very objective about bev

i haven't been in on this, but i have to agree with your assessment of others...you don't seem particularly objective yourself. what's the bottom line to all of this with you? what exactly do you think is the problem with bev and/or her organization? you keep telling people to wake up, but what is it that you want people to see? thanks.

[The Backlash Cometh]

157. Too bad you're not out there now.

[Maddy McCall]

171. Every day.

Every single day.

[alittlelark]

165. Again, please post a link to your page...

Thanks

[alittlelark]

168. How have you organized, and can you PLEASE provide a Link

it would help us all to look at it.

[Maddy McCall]

182. Give me your phone number and I will call you and tell you whatever...

you want to know about my activism and my website. All you have to do is PM me with your phone number and I'll provide the proof.

[rwheeler31]

128. Ah we have to play by the rules,

when the republicans just bulldoze them. Now I get it.

[merh]

101. I'm sorry they never responded to your email.

That does not invalidate your efforts or undermine their efforts. It could be time is so limited and it could be they have thousands of emails, I don't know. I can see a reasonable concern relative to using the "BBV" in the thread calling for volunteer research. When you are dealing with the BFEE and this evil admin, they will investigate and persecute and prosecute you for any little mistake they can. I definitely wouldn't want to put myself out there challenging these bastards and making a mistake relative to the corporate status or any tax matter. This admin uses the IRS to intimidate folks all the time.

Why can't folks understand that there are so many sides to the story and not always the distorted perceptions we take from silence or inaction? :shrug:

I thank you for your efforts to volunteer. I don't think the BBV group is very organized but how organized would I be if I was traveling around the state of Florida? :shrug:

[LoZoccolo]

110. I'm not really upset, it's just that she coralled all this support here...

...and then the next day I hear of nothing about what she wants us to do or any of that. I thought that was kind-of neglectful, especially after she just solicited donations.

And I understand she has an obligation to protect the name of her organization too.

[merh]

118. Which may be why she didn't come back to say what she

wanted done? I don't know. I do know that she has to be careful in what she does under the name of the corporation. I wouldn't want the IRS on my ass and I wouldn't want to have to pay the penalties if they decided I violated the regs.

[LoZoccolo]

122. I wasn't looking for her to post here.

I went to blackboxvoting.org to try to find out what was going on.

I guess my point is that if you're going to be the de facto leader of a movement, you should check in with your public and let them know how you're leading.

[merh]

129. I understand.

I don't consider her a leader of a movement. I consider her an active player in an effort to get to the truth. She is out there doing, traveling all over Florida. I am not, so I cannot judge her activities. I can only be glad she is able to be active and is trying to make a difference.

[alittlelark]

175. Those 'supporters' should be coralled

and analyzed. I firmly believe in paranoia in these present times(on all sides) - hate to say it.... but the time for analysis is nigh...

The DU board has been filled with whack -jobs of late.

[Carolab]

93. Being relatively new here (despite my # of posts--wordy, I guess)...

It appears to me that there are some personal issues behind the scenes to which many of us are not privy. I can understand Bev's defense of the legally registered name(s) associated with her 501c. These issues are very important and she is protecting her organization. The tone seemed a bit harsh; however, as I said, there seem to be some conflicts in the background that color her post. I therefore reserve judgement of the situation.

[truehawk]

112. It is about avoiding an IRS penalty.

[Lil]

105. VOTE FRAUD WORK TEAM SIGN UP link below. Use your anger there!!

VOTE FRAUD WORK (write organize research kick) TEAM SIGN UP (start here)

<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=201&topic_id=4560&mesg_id=4560>

[m berst]

113. yes, thank you

"VOTE FRAUD WORK TEAM SIGN UP"

Trustworthy. Organized. Coordinated.

The rest of the "investigations" and the accompanying flame wars, are highly suspect, IMHO.

[juajen]

141. Well, where the HELL was I when all of this broke out?

DUers all, for God's sake keep your eye on the ball. This thread is not constructive. If you disagree with Bev and BBV, go to threads that do not concern her. Really, we should all be too busy for this kinda crap.

Bye all. Bev, keep on doing what you gotta do. I suggest that anyone else who is in opposition to Bev, do something else to help the cause. DU is a wonderful place to be, and everyone should be welcome here who supports the democratic cause. Play nice, children, please, and, for God's sake, know who your enemy is. BTW, I'm over sixty years old, and a grandma. Don't mess with me.

[Lil]

145. Give yourselves & Bev a break. It's been HELL for months & you're . . .

. . .loosing perspective - normal.

However, our adrenaline may have to last a bit longer. Don't burn out!

[ClintCooper2003]

147. She kind of comes off badly here. Sounds a little mental.

[The Backlash Cometh]

162. Oh, and Maddy doesn't sound mental?

Bev had one legal post to offset a legal matter. She had to do it to protect her organization. Maddy is just, unfortunately, a good reason not to organize with the Dems.

[Maddy McCall]

172. Read what Plan 9 Publishing said about her...

he's a member here. David Allen. Like he said, search the July 2004 archives and see that it isn't just ONE incident. :-)

[Must_B_Free]

183. Not going to happen

I have time to search the archives for "bev Harris" and look through it all?

Why don't you tell us what it was, please...

[Maddy McCall]

187. Ask David. He's active on this thread. Ask him to tell you what she...

did. He is the DUer with the longest affiliation with her and he could tell you PLENTY.

[Kelvin Mace]

255. I told you the month, the year and the forum

Now you are are just being stubborn.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[Skip Intro]

167. oh, context please

[Lil]

180. Try this on for size: Did you know Andy's (BBV.org) sister died yesterday?

Give this a rest - a time of silence and respect for him continuing in FL because time is of the essence!

[Maddy McCall]

184. Andy's sister died yesterday? Tragic. I hate that.

Was he with Bev today when she stormed the retirement party?

[noiretextatique]

191. again...i have to question your objectivity

and you seem to lack sensitivity as well. i had some respect for jchild, but this crack makes me question :wtf: your problem is.

[Maddy McCall]

195. What crack?

I've not even mentioned andy tonight. Someone else tried to stop this discussion by using emotion.

I do think it is tragic that his sister passed away. Very tragic.

And I was just wondering if he had recupperated enough to participate in the storming of the party today. What's the problem with that?

[Milo_Bloom]

197. Wow, you're lost. n/t

[noiretextatique]

198. this stupid, insentive crack

Andy's sister died yesterday? Tragic. I hate that.
Was he with Bev today when she stormed the retirement party?

whatever your beef, you are not doing a very good imitation or an objective (or sane) person.

[Maddy McCall]

200. How is that a "crack?"

Because I didn't add a sad face to my condolensces?

Well, let me make it perfectly clear. I am VERY, VERY SORRY that Andy lost his sister. Very sorry. :(

And I am glad that he can continue his work for BBV. Andy isn't the issue. I believe he has his heart in his work...

As for bev...

[Milo_Bloom]

204. Because you followed it with...

"And I was just wondering if he had recupperated enough to participate in the storming of the party today. What's the problem with that?"

In this brilliant piece of dialogue, you suggest that for Andy to participate in the "storming of the party" he would have had to "recupperate" from his sister's death.

Since you are so lost in your own spin, that you don't understand, allow the following explanation.

The question suggests that Andy's sister's death was either a pure sympathy ploy OR that Andy's participation in the "storming of the party" shows him to be a heartless SOB who didn't care about the death of his sister.

Ultimately it shows that you are unable to view anything in this issue with an ounce of objectivity and everything you have said can be dismissed.

[Maddy McCall]

206. Excuse me, but I am discussing this with noiretblu...

a long-time DUer with whom I have had many discussions.

It is her opinion I requested. Not yours.

[Milo_Bloom]

211. Frankly, my dear....

I don't give a damn whether you request my opinion or not. If you wanted to hear ONLY from one person... try a private message.

However, when you post your stupitidy in a public forum and then try and lie about what you just said and what it obviously meant, prepare to be called out for it.

Don't like it? Like I said, you have many private options at your fingertips. Use them.

[noiretextatique]

225. i have to agree with milo

i still think it was insensitive, and frankly, beneath you. i don't know what your beef with bev is, but whatever it is, it has certainly pissed you off to the point that you are acting a little...well, nuts. i've asked david allen for specifics about bev, and he essentially told me she wasn't a very nice person :shrug: if you have any solid evidence of fraud, i'm still open to reading it. peace.

[Maddy McCall]

228. What is nuts about how I am acting.

Specifically, what is nuts?

[Milo_Bloom]

233. This

"I do think it is tragic that his sister passed away. Very tragic.

And I was just wondering if he had recupperated enough to participate in the storming of the party today. What's the problem with that?"

That, in and of itself, is nuts. It shows that you have broken the bounds of an objective analysis of any facts and decided to instead play in the mud.

[noiretextatique]

241. where is the solid evidence?

and admonishment not to use a trademark? i truly am open to hearing about something other than bev is not the nicest or the most emotionally stable person in the world.

[Maddy McCall]

258. Well, there ya go.

You said it.

[noiretextatique]

261. yeah...and?

how does that "prove" she's a fraud? really...i am not "getting it."

[Maddy McCall]

266. Buyer beware means buyer beware.

Use caution. I have not said she is a fraud. I have said that people should exercise caution.

I will say to you that I THINK she is a fraud, though. That's my opinion, and one to which I am perfectly entitled, and entitled to state on this board.

[noiretextatique]

267. i hear you: caution is always advisable

however, no one seems to be able to prove anything other than she's not the nicest person in the world. having said that, i am not the ostrich type, so i will keep my eyes open.

[Maddy McCall]

273. I know you are objective.

I do know that. And you know that I have no history of flame wars.

This escalated into personal attacks on me for issuing advice of caution. I can handle it, that doesn't bother me. I just want everyone to keep their eyes open, as you said, and to know the person who the standard bearer for BBV, and to whom they are sending their money.

The Olbermann revelation today deserves lots of skepticism.

That's all I am saying. :-)

[noiretextatique]

276. i have much respect for you

so i am listening, being the naturally cautious type. we have been allies on a few occasions here, and i know how it gets sometimes...i have been there. objective?!?! LOL...thanks for that LMAO :D you take it easy, ok? the cult of personality is a powerful thing, so don't get caught up in the bullshit and petty bickering. it will only diminish your valid observations, and you know your overall message is not without merit.
the truth has a way of coming out on its own, and sometimes you just have to hold your peace until it becomes self-evident. unless of course the potential for damage is really great...and perhaps it is.
if it is truly problematic...it will become self-evident soon enough.
i just don't want you to get all shot up in the process, if you know what i mean. blessings, my friend :hi:

[Maddy McCall]

279. Sweet message!

So glad to hear this from you. Wouldn't want to alienate DUers like you! :hug: Goodnight, NB. :-)

[Donailin]

284. I'll tell you what's nuts:

The fact that last night I came across your flames towards bev at around 11:00 PM and read with interest your protestations and over-the-top accusations only to come here this morning and see that you have literally been on ALL NIGHT LONG desperately trying to discredit Bev Harris. I gotta tell ya, the thread you presented last night wrt Bev's reaction to a cleanup crew name gave me some food for thought, but that pales in comparison to witnessing your obsession to the point of staying up all night slamming Bev Harris.

That's what's nuts.

[Lil]

194. Yes, he was with Bev for serving papers in Palm Beach. Link below.

<http://www.ilcaonline.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=1136&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0>

-snip-

Here's what happened, from BlackBoxVoting.org:

Today's lawsuit was filed naming Teresa LaPore as defendant, citing her for failure to comply with the Black Box Voting public records request of Nov. 2, 2004.

Black Box Voting filed the lawsuit this morning in Palm Beach County, served it per Florida law on LaPore's attorney. Black Box Voting then made a surprise visit to the podium at the Florida State Association of Supervisors of Elections meeting held today in Orlando, where LaPore was scheduled to make a speech on records retention.

We went in through the kitchen, using a reconassaince map provided by a colleague, led by Kathleen Wynne dressed as hired help. Black Box Voting investigator Kathleen Wynne, in black jeans and a white polo shirt had earlier traveled through the route to the back entrance to the supervisor's meeting, nodding to the waiters.

"Very nice, very nice," Wynne said authoritatively.

Wynne led Bev Harris and Andy Stephenson through the back way without raising so much as an eyebrow, since she looked like hotel staff.

Harris went onto the podium and introduced herself to the crowd. "I know I'm interrupting. This will only take a minute." She turned to LaPore, "Since we can't get your attention any other way, I'm serving you with a courtesy copy of the lawsuit we served on your office this morning."

LaPore glared, turned her back on Harris, and refused to take the lawsuit, so Harris set it on the table in front of LaPore.

Stephenson stood up in front of the crowd of perhaps 200 Florida elections officials.

"This was a courtesy call on Ms. LaPore for failing to produce public records," he said. "For any of you who have not complied, we have more of these coming."

Black Box Voting has identified 13 Florida counties who have earned litigation due to failure to comply with public records requests.

The elections officials erupted into deafening shouts, boos, gavel-pounding, and then Wynne stepped up smack dab in front of the crowd, took a sturdy stance and panned the crowd with her video camera.

"This is what democracy looks like," she said, as the officials scowled and shouted for the sergeant at arms.

Unfortunately, the sergeant at arms was nowhere to be found. (Perhaps imbibing in the Sequoia Voting Systems lounge, just down the hall? We may never know.)

-snip-

Black Box Voting went to the meeting because it was on the official schedule as a speech by LaPore on retention of election records. LaPore seems to have been retaining records too aggressively, by failing to provide public records to the public. Unfortunately, it seems that the agenda was changed, unbeknownst to Black Box Voting, and instead of a speech it was to be an event honoring LaPore prior to her retirement (she was voted out of office by Palm Beach County residents), and congratulating her on surviving so many lawsuits.

more

[Milo_Bloom]

186. And this all matters because.... ?????

Boy did I miss something doing work the last couple of days.

Let me see if I understand this right. Because Bev sold Clinton Cigars and because she threatened to sue someone due to someone else using her trade name, that means she is unfit to challenge the voting systems?

I just don't see the logic or reasoning in any of this. It all seems extremely personal and petty, when there are much larger issues out there.

You don't like the way she is handling the problems, criticize them, but to bring up stuff like this, seems like you are just trying to distract from the actual issues.

[ogradda]

248. i know i saw the original thread.

not exactly polite was she?

[Maddy McCall]

251. No, and she's ugly to anyone who she thinks is stealing her thunder.

She's in it for herself.

[pointsoflight]

250. Anyone have a good blogging site to recommend?

Pretty sick of this pointless shit.

[Kelvin Mace]

260. You can try mine

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[trumad]

280. David....

You know me......Dontcha? You know I'be always had your back....dontcha... Let me give you some advice.... Let it fucking go... This thread is bullshit, so let it go....

[Maddy McCall]

281. exactly how so?

How is it bullshit? Because someone says that others should be skeptical?

Please explain.

[Maddy McCall]

282. I just saw in another thread that you accused me of being...

someone named fridda. How dare you!

Here is my response in that thread. Go read it and reconsider your accusation.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=101926&mesg_id=102115

[Pepper32]

283. So long as Bev, Keith O and I have the same goal - EXPOSING FRAUD

I don't have a problem with them. I can work with someone I barely like (which is not the case here) for a common cause. And, for the record I admire both of these people, even if they raise an eyebrow at times. All of this DU'r on DU'r character assault, makes us look more like tin foilers than anything else. I have seen everyone that tried to help us, ATTACKED (Nadar, Bev, John Kerry, Jackson, & Keith O). I pity the next person that steps up to help us, (s)he will be eaten alive.

Anyway, I am staying neutral on this issue until I get proof that either one of them are directly effin up my goal (TO OUT B*USH).