The Freeper/Rove psyop tactics are worn out - they aren't working

[Must_B_Free]

clearly we have an concerted effort to malign Bev and thus BBV. But it's all too familiar, we've seen it too many times before.

This is actually reassuring because we know how scared they are. THey are going all out to try to derail BBV.

We are at the "then they attack you" stage, next comes "Then you win".

[AmyCrat]

1. I'm not a freeper

and didn't criticise Bev/BBV for any other reason than to offer something CONSTRUCTIVE so the whole cause doesn't go down the drain with the supposed tin-foil hats we're wearing.

[Must_B_Free]

2. The you don't have anything to be defensive about, right?

apparently my comments don't apply to you.

[aquart]

11. Yes, dear. You've been terribly constructive.

All over the board. I'm impressed by your constructive work.

[Sideways]

22. Me Too Aquart It Is HARD WORK Being Constructive

I'm impressed with the fervent disclaimers of not being a freeper as well. Have you noticed there is a troop of them playing post count circle jerk. Hard work I'll tell you. :eyes:

[smartvoter]

33. Wasted breath, AmyCrat. They're paranoid.

I've been called a Freeper three times since I joined out here and each time it was because I disagreed with someone absolutely convinced he/she was 100% right on everything, even though my position was the same in the larger picture. Some people out here are way of base -- the same over-the-top people who make it hard for us gain credibility in the effort.

Someone needs to hand out chill pills.

[Timebound]

3. You're right.

It is okay to criticise, but don't let them turn us against each other. We can all fight too, but not if we're too busy throwing things at each other.

[AmyCrat]

4. and why does that happen

is it because GOD FORBID you say anything negative about anything remotely tied to the fraud effort here? I don't understand how we can grown and get stronger if people aren't open to at least listening to critique.

[Timebound]

7. Don't get me wrong

I agree that Bev needs to cough up her tapes. I agree that it is time for her to do something, and if she does not, it is VERY suspect.

However, we don't know what exactly is going on in her camp right now. It could be ANYTHING. Rove has an excellent radar, so do we really think she's escaped it?

I still think this is a Rove tactic to distract us. Remember:

"First they laugh at you,
Then they fight you,
Then you win."

...or something along those lines. That would put us in 'then they fight you' mode now.

[goclark]

12. This is not the time to critique, this is action time

If you want to beat up on somebody that is out there working for our country while we are Christmas shoppping,write a letter to yourself and mail it.

[AmyCrat]

6. oops

sorry for the duplicate (deleted)

[Must_B_Free]

8. it's because of our nemesis site, Free Republic

has bunch of militia fans who are tryng to play armchair psyops on us in support of their Crusade to Transform America.

Afgter a while you have seen their entire bag of tricks and it gets repetitive and recognizable.

[JohnnyCougar]

5. Who said Bev isn't the one maligning the whole fraud investigation?

She has us screaming fraud when all her "evidence" so far has been conjecture and innuendo.

[Must_B_Free]

10. Then what was her sabotage strategy in filing the CA lawsuit?

lets not forget that she has a proven track record.

Bev is touching a nerve on the right wing strategy. She has always been attacked. I'll admit I was one of the first people to attack her because she is a ferocious activist and organizer, but in my opinion she has proven herself by this point.

[JohnnyCougar]

15. I'm not saying she's hurting the cause on purpose.

But it seems she is in this for her own publicity, and not thinking about the common good.

Aside from her meltdown on DU, she has made many statements that have turned out to be untrue during the course of this investigation, including promises of information being released when it hasn't, and saying she has proof of fraud when none has been offered.

I gave her much credence and slack at first, but her recent actions seem to be more about ego than anything else. The media "lockdown" was another incident of this sort. No, there wasn't a lockdown, but news organizations don't report if there isn't any concrete evidence. So far, all Bev has offered has been conjecture. I guaruntee you the media would report once they got their hands on the irrefutable evidence of fraud Bev claims to have.

[Sideways]

26. Yes Johnny We Notice All Your HARD WORK And Sacrifice

I really thought you should have changed your handle to Moses but hey that is just me. Running up that mountain to save us from investigating voter fraud and your endless support of the Dixiecrat theory man that was some hard work.:eyes:

[JohnnyCougar]

47. Are you talking about the Dixiecrat theory that has singlehandedly

tarnished our image and made us look like conspiracy theorists? The one I tried to stop people from blasting to the media yelling "FRAUD!" with only conjecture as evidence? The one that has closed the media's ears to all of our stories now, no matter how credible?

Thanks for your vote of appreciation. I'm glad you support my efforts to prevent us from looking like fools and supressing the real story of voter supression with wild, fanatical accusations of fraud.

Too bad my opinions don't get more support from people like you. :eyes:

[rodeodance]

38. Bev came down unnecessarily hard on KO in her post of today

KO does not want to be OlbermannGate!! His last blog says it well.

[texpatriot2004]

9. They didn't set her up here, she set herself up to be attacked.

I'm no freeper. I want them to succeed. I think they are hurting the cause. I know that they are helping it through their efforts but this PR thing is horrid.

[aquart]

13. And there you are, a foot soldier in negative spin.

Exactly what we need, right? Thanks so much for your support.

Matthew 7:20. By their fruits shall ye know them.

[AmyCrat]

16. so we should shut up and just blindly follow?

Baaaaah

uh... I don't think so.

Having differences of opinions and discussing them is how we can learn something, change, grow. I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing. I actually believe in this cause and don't want to see it collapse because of silly mistakes.

[texpatriot2004]

20. Well said AmyCrat, Well said. n/t

[Kelvin Mace]

29. That's been one of their philosophies so far

Another one I really enjoyed was the one that requires me an other people to remain silent when Bev and/or her proxies slander us or tell demonstrable lies, because if we protest, we are "unpatriotic", "helping the enemy", "freepers", etc. We are asked "so what if Bev is not a nice person and building her reputation by destroying other people's? As long as she stops BBV, it is worth it."

In other words:

Criticism is disloyalty.
The ends justify the means.
Character assassination is a legitimate tool of debate.
The truth isn't relevant.


Can you name a political faction that subscribes to those views?

Bueller? Anyone?

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[Chi]

32. Bev tells demonstrable lies?

Bev tells demonstrable lies?

Haven't heard these yet, please enlighten me.
I'm not being an ass, I really haven't heard anything about this.

[Kelvin Mace]

36. PM me

and I will send you the link.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[Chi]

37. Sorry

Was told I don't have enough posts to PM.

Thanks anyway, I appreciate the effort.

[Kelvin Mace]

42. Then just email me

and I'll send them along.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[Ducks In A Row]

44. you could always go to florida or ohio and fight the fraud yourself

[shraby]

17. No matter what Bev does, or Olbermann,

or Kerry, if Rove thinks they are getting close to unveiling what happened, they'll be vilified and attacked. My feeling on the matter, is pull out all stops and go for it anyway we can as long as we tell the truth. We're damned if we do and damned if we don't, so we might as well do.

[texpatriot2004]

19. Hey Back off with the scripture AQUART. I take offense to that

big time. That is uncalled for. You don't even know me. You don't know what I've done to support our work. You have got some nerve. KNOCK IT OFF!

[ClassWarrior]

25. Please don't flame people without knowing their history.

That does NO ONE any good. Except the Radical RW.

NGU.

[Kelvin Mace]

14. Sorry, I have seen no "concerted effort to malign Bev"

I *have* seen numerous pigeons coming home to roost, but that's all.

I grow tired of seeing people with honest differences of opinions and honest grievances tarred as Freepers/Diebold operatives etc.

Some of us are quite tired of being defamed. Some of us are even more tired of being told to shut up and be defamed because protesting such things is somehow unpatriotic.

David Allen

[eleny]

18. Two important DU features

Putting an individual on ignore
Hiding threads

Even Rove can't undermine those.

:) :) :)

Thanks for your post, btw! Hugs {{{MBF}}}

[Maddy McCall]

21. You are saying that if you question bev, you are a rove agent?

That's ridiculous. Perhaps the people who are questioning bev simply want answers.

:eyes:

[pointsoflight]

23. Hundreds of posts in hours, with no sleep. Hmm, I wonder.

Some people are clearly much more invested in this issue than just wanting to ask some questions.

[Maddy McCall]

28. What are you talking about?

I always post a lot at night.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

31. I posted extensively for over two years now on AOL news message boards

And the attacks on the people who are just questioning Bev, are not unlike the attacks of the Bushbots on any of us who have posted on those boards. We dared to question the actions of the Holy Bush Cartel. Pick a name, I've been called it. A F*ing Repuke, or a Freeper is mild...

What makes this different than the "my country, right or wrong" mentality, blind loyalty? I have tried to teach my children to be free thinkers and to question anything that doesn't sit right in their guts, and if expressing doubts about anything invites ridicule, albeit. Yet, I would have thought that this forum would have been one of the first places where free thinking was appreciated, and where not being part of a herd was respected. For some here it obviously is, and sadly for others, it isn't.

[Ducks In A Row]

45. I'm saying if you aren't actively fighting the fraud, and yet you whine...

about the people who are fighting...

maybe you need to check yourself.


if you can't believe people like bev are doing right, you need to leave the computer, pack your bag, and go to florida and do the work yourself.

[gorbal]

24. You guys have been waaaaayyyy to quick to judge her.

You don't give very well thought out reason's to critisize her, you just go along with the flow. Do you even think for a second that maybe the tape is evidence in the suit she searved?

[ClassWarrior]

27. I haven't judged her. I've said all along she needs to explain to us.

She's the only one who can answer this. If the tape's evidence, great, but that's ONLY speculation.

NGU.

[rodeodance]

39. Yes, Bev does need to explain to us and to KO--instead of attachs

[Ducks In A Row]

46. Bev doesn't own us shit. She's the one on the front line and you're not.

[Kelvin Mace]

30. Who's being quick?

Many of us have had over two years experience with her and know the score.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[savistocate]

34. Is there a link to Bev casting critics as "unpatriotic"?.. using that ploy

of Rove sickos..the other stuff called "her meltdown" & character attacks on DU??

[Kelvin Mace]

35. You can look in the archives

(General Discussion, July 2004) for the last great blow up, or PM me and I'll send you links.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[PATRICK]

40. Bev has proved herself

in several extraordinary ways she does not brag about, nor has it earned her any progress or profit. IF she is doing that lawsuit, she seems more than willing to jeopardize it to save the country, despite the claims and suspicions others have made in this regard. The same with her book and organization. She has emptied herself for the issue and the effort and has 100% credibility with me and seems more effective than almost any other actor on the stage spinning their wheels or in hiding.

You are judged by the quality of your enemies. And the best critics(very thoughtful DU members all) merely seem to me to reinforce her as this testing time goes on and on.

Remember that qualm after Nov. 2 when the light seamed to shift to our wide ranging unprepared forum as a lone tinfoil nest of web dissent? Remember cringing a bit and taking a hard look at our own breezy pronouncements? We hardly get a spot of ill attention compared to Bev who is the real boots on the ground for the most critical fraud. Let's look to our empathy quotient before we start being relieved in shining the light away from DU onto the forlorn hopes of the real activists.

[Kralizec]

41. Agreed. My thoughts on the issue follows:

Kralizec's post on DU potential

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x103354

[Ducks In A Row]

43. too true. freepers coming out of the woodwork

well it will not work.

But it tells us Bev is closer than we thought. They wouldn't be pulling out all the stops to get us to doubt her.

But it will not work.