A CALL FOR BBV TO RELEASE VOLUSIA VIDEOS !!!

[Laura PourMeADrink]

Yes, I am new and I know none of the politics between various factions and BBV. But, that makes me no less committed to the ultimate cause – Defeating the Evil Empire of George W. Bush and restoring our democracy.

I do know one thing for absolutely sure. The people of this country, especially Democrats, are not aware of all the mounting evidence of fraud, manipulation, and suppression that the great people on this website are working tirelessly to uncover. Think about it, unless you watch KO (what is it 600,000 viewers last I looked) or you surf the progressive websites, HOW would you know?

There are 56 million Democrats (less us) out there we’ve got to make as angry as the Ukraines. Why not take a chance that the Volusia videos could help ignite their passion ?? Besides, for any of us who helped finance the BBV fact-finding mission in Florida, isn’t there at least a little bit of tape ownership

[L84TEA]

1. I AGREE...i said this a week ago...

I SAY... LAY IT OUT... I heard about it, read about it...but I want pictures, video...
I really believe if all that was said and done that it would of been smeared all over the place...HELLO?? ANY NEWS BESIDES FOX WOULD LOVE THIS...EVEN A LOCAL CHANNEL....

IF YOU GOT THE GOODS...NOW IS THE TIME TO PRODUCE THEM BEV!! Before the holidays so people can start passing the word and getting pissed!!!

[gorbal]

2. Well if the videos have any proof it will fuel the fight

Face it, the Ukraining protestors are winning in the streets, not in the courtrooms, We need to get the info out to the American public, and let them be the judge. It might just be swept under the rug otherwise.

I think Oberman might have been challenging her to get her on his show, I don't think he meant for all the hubub like what happend here. Bev has been busier than your average person, perhaps she doesn't have the time or money to go all the way to whereever Oberman's show films, I don't know. But give her the benifit of the doubt until she has her say.

You guys have been WAAAAAAAYYY to quick to judge her. I would hate to have some of you on the jury if I was ever accused of something.

[tbuddha]

3. NOT A GOOD IDEA RIGHT NOW

The only tapes the media should have right now are videos of US standing in the streets protesting.

[Jersey Devil]

7. Protesting what and based on what evidence?

People are going to be marching in the streets based on statistical theories?

If you showed them video of voting authorities grabbing tapes out of dumpsters and shots of tapes from the same precincts with different numbers, the ones with Kerry having more votes in the garbage, THAT would make them march.

[tbuddha]

9. Don't you get it!?!?!

WE AREN'T GOING TO GET THAT KIND OF COVERAGE ON THE MSM!!!!!!!!!!!

THERE IS A THING CALLED "EDITING"!!!!!

WHO'S SIDE DO YOU THINK THE "EDITORS" AT MSNBC ARE ON???!!??!??

[Jersey Devil]

15. Is Olbermann also the subject of a "media lockdown"?

The video would be all over the world in a nanosecond. She could also release it first to Reuters or the BBC or any other news organization and it would be shown. Then no US media could ignore it.

[saddemocrat]

4. Agree

We've gone on blind faith for long enough. It is getting harder and harder to rally people to the cause without 'proof'. It isn't enough this close to the certification of the results and vote by the electoral college to say "trust me" and "take to the streets".

[Truman01]

5. What are the Valusia videos suppose to show? N/t

[Maddy McCall]

6. As the old saying goes...

she should put up or shut up. This is not the time to be playing games. For Chrissakes, OLBERMANN is interested? Why not play along with the guy? He's the best in the business, and exposing Volusia could turn this whole thing around! People need to be asking questions, and those who are content with Bev's performance need to quit attacking those of us who are asking questions.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Maddy McCall]

14. Siddhartha would be VERY proud of you.

:eyes:

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

16. Well said Maddy. n/t

[Maddy McCall]

17. Thanks.

Sad irony, isn't it?

:hi:

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

39. Your welcome, and yes, it is sad. n/t

[Darknyte7]

13. We can work it out...

Bev shouldn't, nor does she need, to show her entire hand just yet, but I think it is probably in the interest of "the cause" and her own credibility to show SOMETHING at this point. I'm having a difficult time keeping my friends and loved ones motivated not to lose hope. I've been preaching patience for a month now. Show'em something Bev... Not everything, but SOMETHING...

[L84TEA]

19. I AGREE... WHEN IS A GOOD TIME???

I am soo sick of... waiting. It is time, this election will be over in January. People are already losing their fire. IF she really has fraud evidence SHOW US...SHOW THEM!!

I SAY SPILL IT BEV...

[Carolab]

8. I think we should allow Bev

to decide what to do with the tapes. Don't you?

[tbuddha]

10. THANK YOU

At least someone on here has sense

[mattclearing]

12. Like I said...

They are probably evidence in her lawsuit. That would preclude her from leaking them now.

[mary195149]

Most people don't know what is going on,

and if the dems had any clue of the things that are very suspicious, then we spark so much more back up of people demanding answers. Whether we can get some exposure on the poll tapes that Bev has uncovered or something else to show the people that this election we had is in great question.
Of course, the main reason to do this so quickly is because time is running out to discover the problems we suspect, we could overturn the election. And we all know, once the votes get certified on 1/6/05 it will become that much more difficult to get Bush out of office. Four years ago the dems lost because the repubs wanted the white house more. They fought harder. PERIOD! But, 4 years ago, things were not what they are today. After all, Bush was on vacation 43% of the time till 9/11. Today, 4 years later, I really can't think of one thing that Bush has done right. And our country is in distress. Where are we going to be 4 years from now??
We really need to start getting some solid info out to the public now. We've got Keith Olbermann to help get the story out but he needs a story.

[Kelvin Mace]

35. Uh, no.

If she has evidence of a crime she is morally and legally required to disclose it. Time is something we DO NOT have.

Also, constantly making accusations and dangling the hope of overturning the election while soliciting funds from the "faithful" is beginning to look VERY bad.

It is cruel to get people's hopes up and not deliver. It makes us look like paranoid nut cases when she has folks screaming fraud but when called to provide proof, has nothing but excuses. This type of action will DISCREDIT this movement.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[pointsoflight]

18. The tape is not hers...it belongs to votergate.org!!!

She's working with them, yes. But has anyone considered for even a moment that the tape isn't actually hers to give up?

[Jersey Devil]

20. Perhaps, but not the vote tapes

I think you are referring to the dumpster video tapes, but the voting tapes of the election night results were taken by Bev and her people unless I misunderstood what she said.

[pointsoflight]

21. This thread is about VIDEO tapes. As for the polling tapes...

....they're evidence in a lawsuit. Probably the key piece of evidence, in fact.

[Razorback_Democrat]

23. That's a good point, maybe pics of them on her site or something? n/t

[Jersey Devil]

24. There is no law that says you cannot show evidence in a lawsuit

While there may be certain constraints placed on a prosecutor in a criminal prosecution to protect the accused's right to a fair trial there is no such rule in civil cases that bars evidence from being revealed prior to trial unless there is a restraining order entered by a court and there is no such order in this instance.

[pointsoflight]

25. But it could hurt your lawsuit.

No good prosecutor would ever play their hand before the trial.

[Jersey Devil]

27. This isn't a criminal prosecution

It is a civil case. The only reason not to show the tapes before trail, considering the gigantic media attention they would get, is that the tapes do not show what she is saying they show.

[pointsoflight]

29. The same idea applies.

Why don't you play your hand early in a criminal suit? Because it gives the defense a chance to see exactly what you have and prepare a better defense. That's no different for a civil case.

[Jersey Devil]

33. That only applies if you are bluffing

and you want the other side to reveal something in anticipation of what they think you have but do not really have.

If she has the goods, the real deal, she should lay it on the table now. The news would explode the entire issue of vote fraud like a nuke.

[pointsoflight]

36. No it doesn't. Please step back and think about this logically.

Right now, the election board in Volusia County probably doesn't know which polling tapes Bev has in her possession. After all, some were in garbage bags at the warehouse, some were in a dumpster, and still others had been thrown out at the election office.

If they knew exactly which polling tapes Bev has, they could cover their tracks....they could manipulate the ballots themselves to be consistent with the official count they submitted. If they don't know which polling tapes Bev has, there could be any of hundreds of precincts at play, and covering tracks would be extremely difficult.

That's just one concrete example of how it could hurt to play your cards right now in the media instead of in front of a judge.

[Jersey Devil]

41. Sounds logical, but aren't the votes already certified?

There is an official record of the votes now so I don't see how they could be changed. Plus, she could, if she appeared on Olbermann, at least explain why she can't show the tapes. She is not helping the cause by not appearing there.

[pointsoflight]

45. The vote total is certified, yes.

But if tampering occurred, it would likely be with those vote totals, not the paper ballots themselves. The latter takes a huge amount of time and effort.

But if there was tampering and the defense knew which tapes were in question, they could now alter the ballots themselves to match up with the tapes.

Again, just one example.

[Jersey Devil]

47. Let's say you are right for the purpose of discussion

Wouldn't it be a good idea for Bev to explain this to Olbermann rather than turn his blog editorial into a pissing match as she has apparently done based on the new post on her website today?

[tbuddha]

50. Turns out Keith hasn't given her a chance

My biggest point is this. I don't like that you, whatever your intentions, post messages that breed distrust in Bev and divide the forun. The important thing is to keep the faith. This board needs my aggressiveness at times to counterbalance the wishy washiness you inject. I'm sure you are a rational human in that you are here and against Bush, but please, don't bash Bev anymore.

[Jersey Devil]

51. Why the personal attack against me?

You question my motives ("whatever your intentions") and say that my posts "breed distrust" and then call me "wishywashy"

My reply: Walk west until your hat floats.

I've seen you do this crap with others.

[Pepper32]

52. I'm not a lawyer but...

My understanding is that ALL evidence has to be submitted before the hearing/trial starts, so that both sides may review the evidence. At least that's the way it was when a friend of mines was involved in a civil dispute with a slumlord, a few years ago.

Has this changed? Am I incorrect?

[mattclearing]

32. In that case...

If that's the case, then I stand corrected. Perhaps it's votergate.tv's, and they don't want to give it up when it could make a lucrative movie. I have a hard time believing that though, because that kind of negates the point of any movie they could make.

[pointsoflight]

37. Regardless, people are targeting the wrong person in the case of the video

[Jersey Devil]

43. Nobody is "targeting" anyone - just stating what the situation is

She says she has tapes. She won't show them. Olbermann called her out on them. It's her move. My conclusion is that unless she backs up her claims in some fashion, even if it is not full disclosure but at least something, she will be ignored as a part of the tinfoil hat crowd from here on out.

That is not "targeting" her, or as someone else suggested, "slander". It is just reality.

[Jersey Devil]

26. This thread is about BOTH kinds of tapes - read Olbermann's blog

Where do you see in his blog that he is talking only of the dumpster videos? The voting tapes are clearly more important than anything else.

[pointsoflight]

28. I'm talking about THIS thread here. Look at the title.

Call to release VOLUSIA VIDEOS. Videos, not tapes.

[Jersey Devil]

30. Yes, and the video shows the dumpsters (supposedly) and

Bev and her people taking tapes from them. It is all the same thing, voting tapes and tapes of people taking voting tapes. Your objection is nitpickery.

[pointsoflight]

42. What?!? Nitpicky? She does not own the video you want her to give up!

What don't you understand about that? The video is the property of votergate.org. She does not have the authority to make the decision to give that video to MSNBC. So if anyone wants the videos to be turned over, they need to talk to the folks at votergate.org, not Bev.

The polling tapes are a different matter, but those are not the topic of this thread, which calls for Bev to release the "Volusia VIDEOS."

[Jersey Devil]

49. She has the voting tapes, or at least she says she does

and she has said that the election night tapes are far different from the ones turned in at a later date. THAT is what Olbermann wants to see. While it may be interesting and damning to see poll workers sifting through garbage and lead to nefarious inferences, the voter tapes are the real evidence. This string is about both, but the poll tapes are in her possession (or so she says).

[dzika]

31. Whether the tape is hers or not...

...she needs to speak up and put and end to this.

I'm sure that Rove would love for us to waste another 1-zillion posts about this diversion.

I'm thinking that if there is not a full disclosure of the issues surrounding these tapes in the next 12 hours then we should just consider the entire situation a sham...

...and then we should move on. No single person, organization or alleged evidence is more important than the undeniable need to fight for our right to have all votes counted.

Give BBV a change to speak, but let's understand that this movement is not dependent on any single organization or person.

[Pepper32]

22. Well...

IMO....


After reading what Keith wrote in his blog, I have to say he nailed her to a wall.

Before now I wasn't really thinking about the evidence Bev was gathering. I just assumed she would show us in due time and I still do. But Keith O has basically forced her to do it now, if she doesn't the repukes will have a great time blasting us based on her not coming forward with the goods.

After all, she discovered the files sitting on Diebold's site and wrote the book on how fraud could take place using those damn machines, without paper. So if they discredit her, they indirectly WILL make our entire argument/mission WEAK. Do I think it does? Hell NO... I see the complete picture. But the repukes will certainly try to connect the two. And many people don't know what really happened on Nov 2nd, the MSM made sure of that!

Sigh, maybe, just issuing a statement from BBV will help with damage control?

[Snivi Yllom]

34. if she has something important on tape she should release it NOW

Otherwise she should shut up and stop jerking people off telling people she has something important while trolling for dollars to finance a documentary that will make her rich.

Until she releases it she has nothing IMO.

[pointsoflight]

38. Again, the video tape is NOT hers to turn over. Geez.

[Jersey Devil]

44. Then why doesn't she say that to Olbermann?

Please don't try to tell me she isn't aware of this controversy.

[pointsoflight]

46. She owns POLLING TAPES. She does not own the VIDEO.

This thread asks her to turn over the VIDEO that she does not own.

If you want to talk about the polling tapes, fine, but that's a different issue from the one raised in the original post.

[Ducks In A Row]

54. Why do you think you have any right to insist?

If you want a tape to release, do to florida with your own camera and get some film.

[Lerkfish]

40. wow, a low post count lovefest for Bev....

NOW I see what others were complaining about.

This tells me this much, though: Whenever repukes feel ACTUALLY threatened by someone, they launch a full court press.

That means Bev is ON TO SOMETHING and its STARTING TO FREAK THEM OUT.

Good job, Bev! the Psyops won't work here!

[Ducks In A Row]

55. it is kinda fun watching the freepers freak out, isn't it! :)

I wish the mods would get on the stick about this crap.

[molly]

48. It was on C-Span Washington Journal

this morning. Every day, it is getting more and more coverage - it's beginning to snowball and I love it.

[Ducks In A Row]

53. No it's not our call or our right to insist

It's Bev's call, pure and simple.

She is not a newbie. She's been fighting this crap for years, and if she thought it was a good time to do so, she would.

I do not want the criminals to get away with this crap.

If you want to have tapes to release, you should be down there in florida and filming yourself.


Until and unless you are willing to do the work, you have NO RIGHT to force Bev to do what you want.