Who do you believe more, Bev Harris or Keith Olbermann?

[LoZoccolo]

[mattclearing]

1. Lame.

No third option for people that see this as a divisive question?

[LoZoccolo]

5. I've added "I don't know".

It's not a divisive question. When someone leads an organization that asks for our money, she's somewhat accountable to those people.

[mattclearing]

15. Thanks.

I'm just bumming on the "with us or against us" mentality that is going on around here based on this thing. I'm sure both KO and Bev have their reasons, and that's fine with me.

They have both been helpful, and I'm not going to choose sides. We need all the help we can get.

[Pirate Smile]

2. Has Bev responded to anything since Olberman's blog last night?

[mattclearing]

3. Yeah.

See www.blackboxvoting.org

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AmyCrat]

12. I'm so TIRED of this answer

if they don't kiss Bev's feet or ask questions about Olbermann's motives, they must be repubs infiltrating the cause.

We have the obligation to ask questions!

[LoZoccolo]

17. Sir, I suggest you go back and take a look at SOME of my posts...

...before you make that kind of accusation against me (which is against the rules).

Do that. You have five minutes, and then I want you to apologize, newbie.

[bullimiami]

7. yes. go look at BBV.

essentially

1) olbermans producers cancelled her twice, late.
2) she has not been in contact with them since volusia.

and others.

[Carolab]

4. What purpose does this serve?

This is very devisive and accomplishes nothing.

[bullimiami]

9. it doesnt offend me.

let people air it out. whatever.

me. i tend to trust bev, never had a reason not to.

[LoZoccolo]

11. See my response #5. n/t

[htuttle]

8. This is a false choice

The two are not in direct opposition as you seem to suggest. There's not really an 'either/or' choice here.

[skylarmae]

10. Bev all the way!

I have been called a 'dreamer' and a 'conspiracy theorist' recently, but still have HOPE that her efforts will do some good. This voting mess has to be corrected. Can't wait any longer to fix this mess. If we can't get voting right, we should hang it up! IMO

[On the Road]

13. Oooh, Great Poll!

Of all the useless polls in the Lounge, this is what the function was created for.

I am definitely interested in the results. This one really counts.

(Now, if it can just get enough votes without devolving into a flame war.)

[The Backlash Cometh]

14. Omigod. We're skyrocketing to mediocrity.

[SeattleRob]

16. Divide and Conquer

It's so easy for the Repukes - All they have to do is sit back and watch our side turn on each other. It's like shooting fish in a barrell.

:spank: :shrug: :(

[LoZoccolo]

18. How is this dividing?

We are all still dedicated to finding any fraud. We are just holding a leader accountable who's doing the dividing for us thank you. She didn't have to get into a long-distance big deal with Keith Olbermann in public over the web. There goes what looks like the only exposure those tapes could get now. For what?

[IAMREALITY]

23. I have a better question

How is any of this bickering about Bev and KO nonsense (now in like 20 friggin threads) going to help support a positive outcome to the fraud that is election 2004. All I can find are negative possibilities. My biggest concern right now, as should be everyone else's, is what we can continue to do to save democracy, not this bickering crap. One thread on it to get it out of your system, fine. Ten, twenty, thirty threads? UNACCEPTABLE. Hell, there seemed to be really positive news from C-Span yet that thread is getting a hundredth of the attention as this Bev KO garbage. These threads shouldn't even be in this forum since they have nothing to do with Election 2004. They should be moved to GD IMHO.

:eyes:

[LoZoccolo]

24. It could pressure Bev to handle this properly.

Instead of participating in Internet disses, she could have just gone to Olbermann with the tapes. That's how.

[IAMREALITY]

25. Then Email Bev

But this crap just doesn't belong here. We have twenty threads now dividing the 2004 board and causing much disruption/distraction from the real issues.

I sent a request to the moderators to start moving these threads to GD and can only hope they agree with the logic. I ask anyone reading this to do the same. THIS DAMN BATTLE IS DOING NOTHING MORE THAN CREATING A HUGE DISTRACTION IN THIS FORUM, PERIOD!

(and not just this thread, all the damn BEV VS KO threads. ENOUGH ALREADY!)

[googly]

22. If we do not honestly try to figure out why Kerry lost, we will lose again

Was it fraud, was it campaign mistakes, was it the platform,
was it voter intimidation, whatever.....we need an honest
evaluation, and NOT ASSUME it was one of those things until
proven.

[PATRICK]

19. How about imagining if Bev

were a media pro and Olberman was the BBV guy. isn't this about our habit of trusting the heads in the box, our media heroes?

After NOT watching any of them trying to champion the people's quest fro the truth I find the whole subset of the national discussion on TV totally incompetent, full of themselves, appallingly off the mark and out of touch. Then I look at the even more appalling results of every American citizen regardless of their OWN knowledge and commitment being FORMED not informed by this lackluster, right spun nonsense.

That's right. The less you view it, just as in sports, the more the romance wears off and when next you look(like the first taste of the abandoned cigarette) the more you are turned off. However, once lured back into the habit, the mind bends around them instead of what you see around you.

Bev is real. Olberman is a program in search of scripted insertions and acceptable mood swayers. Whatever their personal integrity is a truncated profession, that is how the media defines its actors.

Might I add of the countless efforts made to belittle Bev's profit seeking motives or influence peddling, she had gone way overboard sacrificing the former and moving on WITHOUT the latter all for the sake of our stuporous nation(and that includes leaders, luminaries, organizations etc. now defined, as Bush is, as dismal failures as Americans). I really doubt the judgment of the doubters at this point and that is all before you get to the SIMPLE and easy to read threat of BBV itself.

[LoZoccolo]

21. Bev could have refuted Olberman very easily.

If she would have showed up with the tape and said "sorry, we must have had some sort of disconnect, here are the tapes, when would you like me on". Bev wins! Instead, look at her bickering response and the damage she's doing to the movement. You have to be able to handle misunderstandings if you're going to represent people.

[flordehinojos]

20. i don't know ... but i want to know who startedthe polarization between

these two voices ...was it karl rove due to the fact that at least one of them may have something of importance to seel to the rest of the nation? Is either bev harris or keith olberman being used, or allowing themselves to be used by the republican machine which destroys any unity the people might have against one GWB? Why does one have to be right against the other? maybe they each two different pieces that fit the same puzzle. i don't know.

[PATRICK]

28. In other threads the more obvious

culprit is the network production people in between, the major problem behind the media scenes we all know about. Of course Keith at least should be aware of those problems, but Bev is having too much demanded of her primary concern. She is not a powerful pundit spokesperson but an issue advocate and researcher.

We all accept the media game with all its posing and points and power as the game of national information when it is quite the opposite. The problem is not personal between two good people but systemic. It fries good people for executive lunch. Not many geniuses play that miserable game and get the goods out there for the people. Bev is acquiring evidence not TV ratings. What seems simple to reasonable people here is not in the grand scheme of the media machine. And not that easy or safe.

[ElementaryPenguin]

26. BEV HARRIS, OF COURSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

General Electric is not HER boss!!!!

WTF are you people thinking???

[masaka___]

29. I completely agree.

Who's doing all the hard work and who's the talking head?

Bev has done more than enough to earn our respect.

[myschkin]

27. i believe both

and in jesse jackson.

[Alizaryn]

30. Its kinda like asking..who do you like more your mom or dad

We really need to keep our energy unified to stand against the other side.

[dbonds]

31. You should add 'It doesn't matter either way' as a choice.

This poll creates a problem. It should be removed.

[Kralizec]

32. Everyone involved in this string please read this thread pertaining to

adding fuel to the fire of presumption.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=103354&mesg_id=103354

[Rosco T.]

33. Blame Keith's Producers....

sounds like a miscommunication more than anything else that got out of hand...

[TalkingDog]

34. Could you add a "Who Cares" column?

This is a tempest in a teapot. Even if the truth doesn't shake out, the world will progress.

[Skinner]

35. Continue discussion here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x104119