Could this help prove fraud?

[tbuddha]

OK, this sounds totally impractical and crazy and let me know if I'm way off here.

My thinking is is that there will be at least 5000 people in Columbus this Saturday, that means LOTS of volunteers. What if we organized a massive canvassing effort there? I have dismissed this idea from other bloggers before as being impossible, but here's a chance when a lot of passionate people will all be in the same place at once.

We would need at least one poll book so we can identify DEMS in the area that voted. Then go out and hammer an area. Preferably one that was way off for maximum effect. I know 100 people knocking doors could cover my entire precinct in about 15 minutes. We get voters to sign an affidavit saying they voted for Kerry and have them include their phone numbers for reference. Not really all that hard.

[redsoxliberal]

1. most people are resigned to a 'loss.'

It's only people like us who'd be into it I think.

Also, I really don't think that'd prove fraud.

[berniew1]

17. Major Voter Suppression in Cleveland and Columbus fully documented

Voter Suppression: STEALING VOTES IN COLUMBUS

http://web.northnet.org/minstrel/columbus.htm

The Free Press on Election Day posted a disturbing story, later confirmed by the Columbus Dispatch. The Free Press reported that Franklin County Board of Elections Director Matt Damschroder deliberately withheld voting machines from predominantly black Democratic wards in Columbus, and dispersed some of the machines to affluent suburbs in Franklin County. Damschroder is the former Executive Director of the Franklin County Republican Party. Sources close to the Board of Elections told the Free Press that Damschroder and Ohio’s Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell met with President George W. Bush in Columbus on Election Day. The idea was to discourage turnout in Democratic wards by forcing voters to wait in long lines at the polling places. Such a strategy would be far more effective than encouraging turnout in Republican wards. Elections are all about margins. There are 74 wards in Columbus. George W. Bush won 12 wards, with a margin of 7.35%. John F. Kerry won 62 wards, with a margin of 37.62%. Affecting Kerry’s turnout would greatly reduce his margin of victory in Columbus, giving the Republicans a much better chance of overtaking Kerry given a strong enough showing in suburban and small town Republican strongholds.

In order to investigate this matter, I obtained from the Franklin County Board of Elections all the data I needed in order to calculate, ward by ward, and precinct by precinct: (1) The ratio of registered voters per voting machine. (2) Percent turnout, calculated as total ballots cast divided by the number of registered voters. (3) Percent for Kerry, calculated as votes cast for Kerry divided by votes cast for president. (4) Margin of victory or defeat for Kerry, calculated as the difference between the vote totals for Kerry and Bush.

All 36 of the wards at the bottom of the list of voters per voting machine were won by Kerry, and they include most of his strongholds. In 29 of the 36 wards, Kerry exceeded his city wide share of 62.22% of the vote. However, these wards suffered a low voter turnout.It is important to understand what these numbers mean. The polls in Ohio were open from 6:30 A.M. to 7:30 P.M. That is 13 hours, or 780 minutes. If there are 400 registered voters per voting machine, and turnout is 60%, each voter has less than 3.5 minutes to vote, and that is assuming a steady stream of voters, with no rushes at certain hours. It also assumes no challenges to voters at the polls. If there are 550 registered voters per voting machine, and the turnout is 60%, each voter has 2.4 minutes. All of this amounts to theft of votes. It has been shown above that the Kerry precincts enjoyed a voter turnout similar to that of the Bush precincts when supplied with enough voting machines.

Thus I conclude that the withholding of voting machines from predominantly Democratic wards in the City of Columbus cost John Kerry upwards of 17,000 votes. A more detailed calculation could be done on a precinct by precinct basis, but that is not necessary here. The purpose is to illustrate the magnitude of the conspiracy. Matt Damschroder did not act alone. There are 74 wards and 472 precincts in Columbus, Ohio. It is not possible for one person to have delivered all the voting machines, and it is unlikely that nobody else was involved in planning where to deliver them. Anyone who associated with Mr. Damschroder on or shortly before Election Day should be investigated for possible complicity. Richard Hayes Phillips, Ph.D. 4 Fisher Street Canton, New York 13617 [phone] [e-mail]

Stealing Votes in Cleveland

http://web.northnet.org/minstrel/cleveland.htm

Indications of possible ballot box stuffing in Warren County, Ohio

http://web.northnet.org/minstrel/warren.htm

Favoritism in the Suburbs

http://web.northnet.org/minstrel/suburbs.htm

Analysis Indicates Kerry could win Ohio with a "fair process" and fair vote count

http://web.northnet.org/minstrel/uncounted.htm

[berniew1]

20. Strong indication of major irregularities or fraud in Ohio counties

Strong indications of major electronic glitches or fraud in Ohio in several counties (rural and suburban counties)

In analyzing the still-unofficial results, the totals reveal that C. Ellen Connally, an African-American Democratic candidate from Cleveland running for Ohio Chief Justice, received more than votes than Kerry in many counties. For example in Butler County, Connally received 5347 more votes than Kerry. The list of the counties where Connally actually outpolled Kerry include Auglaize, Brown, Butler, Clermont, Darke, Highland, Mercer, Miami, Putnam, Shelby, Van Wert, and Warren.

The reason the Kerry vote counts are suspect is because Connelly, a retired African-American judge, was vastly outspent in her race, and did not have the visibility of the presidential race. Thus for a more obscure Democratic candidate, farther down on the ticket, to get many more votes statewide than Kerry, suggests something happened to suggest there may have been a transfer of Kerry votes to Bush. ""Statistically, Kerry, as the Democratic presidential candidate, should have more votes than Connally. In a presidential election, most voters have the priority of casting a vote for president and the votes for president are almost always much higher than those of candidates farther down the ticket. As of election night, 5,481,804 votes were counted for Bush and Kerry. 4,327,270 votes were counted for Moyer and Connally.

""This looks like a computer glitch or a computer fix,"" said Bob Fitrakis, a lawyer, political scientist and Editor of the Columbus Free Press (http://freepres.org) who has written about election irregularities since Bush was declared the winner. Fitrakis is among the team of lawyers who announced they would soon file an election challenge in the state’s Supreme Court.

[berniew1]

21. Warren County, Ohio: indications of stuffing the ballot box

Warren County, Ohio: most successful voter registration drive in American political history, or stuffing the ballot box

Warren County, a traditional Republican stronghold northeast of Cincinnati, came to national attention on election night. While the nation awaited returns from Ohio, the state that would decide the election, county officials locked down the administrative building and prohibited all independent observers from watching the vote count.

An analyst who has all the vote data for 2000 and 2004 by precinct in several Ohio counties did a detailed analysis by precinct of the huge increase in Bush votes and margin in Warren county. This county first did a lockdown to count the votes, then apparently did another lockdown to recount the votes later- resulting in an even bigger Bush margin and very unusual new patterns.

Several very unusual patterns were evident in the history and the vote totals by precinct. The analyst concludes:

"George W. Bush’’s big win in Warren County was due to one of two things –– one of the most successful voter registration drives in American political history, or stuffing the ballot box. If the vote was legitimate, the records will show it. There will be a signature in a different handwriting for every one of the 16,803 newly registered voters, and for every one of the 95,512 ballots cast. If the vote was not legitimate, there will be a shortage of punch cards in the ballot box, or duplicate handwriting on the voter rolls, or fewer registered voters than reported." http://web.northnet.org/minstrel/warren.htm

Richard Hayes Phillips, Ph.D. 4 Fisher Street Canton, NY 13617 [phone]

Other counties and likely Kerry win in recount with fair rules: http://web.northnet.org/minstrel/alpage.htm

www.flcv.com/ohiov04.html

(these URLs are not hyperlinked, you have to mark and paste them into browser) (web site is hyperlinked)

[tbuddha]

22. Those finks had the place locked down while they forged ballots

maybe my canvassing idea could help there.

[unblock]

2. might score some political points, but really doesn't prove much at all

unfortunately, when you ask people after an election, far more people will claim to have voted than actually voted.

and even those who voted might lie about their actual choice. typically more people claim to have voted for the actual winner, but with the fraud allegations, it could go the other way.

in any event, you would have to get people to give their names and voting precincts and correlate that with the voting rolled to confirm if they actually voted.

the voting records would probably be available only under subpoena.

[tbuddha]

4. I know we would need a poll book

maybe when we do the recount we could acquire one.

I don't think anyone would say they voted for Kerry if they voted for Bush and vice versa.

It would be best to hit a certain precinct that had funny numbers, like a real low number for Kerry. Then show that he had much more people vote for him.

Plus, this weekend, Columbus will be rife with people motivated enough to canvass.

[theboss]

3. Frankly, I wouldn't sign that

I still think the idea of secret ballot is pretty important.

Besides, I don't know what this would prove. It's not like you could prove anyone was lying anyway (unless they claimed to vote and didn't).

[tbuddha]

6. HUH? What are you talking about?

You totally missed the point.

I'm talking about taking a precinct that lets say only gave Kerry 100 votes. If we went into that precinct and canvassed just the people who actually voted and got 200 people that said they voted for Kerry, I think that would be pretty strong.

[theboss]

8. No, it's meaningless

How can you prove that they are telling the truth? It's a secret ballot.

[tbuddha]

9. I think that if someone says they voted for Kerry, and signs an

affidavit saying they did, that is TOTALLY proof. answer this, Why would a Bush supporter sign an affidavit that he voted for Kerry? hmm?

[theboss]

11. To fuck with you....

I suppose that if you got the poll book and interviewed every person in it and made sure that they had actually voted, you could do . . .something. I still don't see how it would be admissable since their actual vote is unprovable.

[seriousstan]

12. Your vulgarity is uncalled for

The person is simply trying to find a way to help. If you have something constructive and informative, perhaps you could show them why this wouldn't work. Your response simply shows your lack of the ability to discuss a subject intelligently.

Were you that shook by a simple "hmmm"?

[theboss]

13. We're not allowed to swear now?

Anyway, in the body of my text, I explained that I don't think such an affadavit would be admissable. I think it would probably qualify as hearsay since the underlying assertion is unprovable.

[seriousstan]

14. I didn't say you couldn't do it . I said it was uncalled for.

I believe that buddha would not rad or respond to much you wrote after reading your opening statement, making the rest of your message irrelevant. I would rather instruct than insult. That is just the way I have found to be effective. You are free to pursue whatever avenue you see fit.

[Razorback_Democrat]

19. I think you are right that it would be inadmissable

or worse, somehow evidence of reverse fraud (from what was trying to be proven) as if people lied and then somehow they were able to trace their vote (I believe optical scanners have stubs that are given to a voter and the number is written down, at least it is in my polling precinct) and if they lied and you had an affidavit showing they lied, then you'd be just proving the tinfoil hat theory that the right wants to play on us.

there is no privacy really with voting as how you vote gets put in databases that are used by ?????

[seriousstan]

5. You wouldn't need a poll book

The county Dem party has all of this info.

As for the idea, it will mean nothing. After the fact statements by voters proves nothing. I recall an effort before the election, it had something to do with getting a notorized downloaded ballot, that would have proven no more than this idea would. Nobody can prove how they voted on election day. It was a secret ballot.

People lie every day under oath, why would this be any diferent or be any more proof than the election numbers?

I ubderstand the motive and the drive but there is only one set of numbers that count....the election results.

I would say to get the recount, if we can, and let the chips fall where they will.

[tbuddha]

7. the problem is the paper ballots themselves could be tossed

and replaced with new ones that match the fake total. Remember the lockdown in Warren County?

I think it would be hard to argue that someone who voted for Bush just decided to sign an affidavit that they voted for Kerry...and if you got over a 100 extra? I just think that would be extremely hard to swallow that 100 Bush supporters would sign affidavits that they voted for Kerry.

[seriousstan]

10. It wouldn't have to be Bush voters, it could be Dems that support the war

until you have them put it on paper with their name and phone number next to it. See the problem? It would mean nothing.

About tossing the paper ballots, you do realize that a Dem is at the polls when the machines are broken down at the end of the day. Then a paper copy of the numbers is immediately posted at the poll for all to see. After that 2 more copies and the magnetic card are delivered to the collection site, where there are both Dems and Reps. These are then tabulated with both parties watching.

Another wrench in your conspiracy is that any precinct that id predominately Dem has a Dem presiding judge. That is the person transporting the paper and magnetic cartodges to the collection site.

I have worked the polls for near 20 years.

[tbuddha]

18. Shit...just realized it doesn't matter...Columbus used touch screens

Dammit...wouldn't you know it. No paper trail in the county that has the Dem presiding judge.

[seriousstan]

24. There are three paper trails generated from every machine.

These are the tally papers that are generated whaen the poll machines are closed down.

[bemis12]

15. But

You'd get a lot of Kerry supporters who never made it to the polls for one reason or the other, but don't want to admit that.

Then you check the pollbook and they are not listed! Walaa! Fake fraud!

[tbuddha]

16. You'd have to give the canvassers a list of only those who voted

In my precinct, that can't be more than 600 people. If we did it in Columbus somewhere, we could easily round up 100 people from the rally. 100 people could contact a bunch in no time.

Would it be legally admissible? probably not. But if it got attention, it would shake things up, especially if we hit more than one precinct.

[jamboi]

23. Interesting idea. Worth exploring. n/t

[jagsd01]

25. VOTER SUPRESSION

"Its the number of voting machines, and accessibility, you all !"