Anyone else stop visiting lefty sites not acknowledging election theft?

[goldengreek]

The last time I visited atrios, mydd, emergingdemocraticmajority, and others they didn't believe that had happened. All their analyses had assumed Bush won fair and square. To me, if that were true, it would be silly to entertain any strategy other than the one that assumed the Democratic Party was on the road to extinction.

After all, Little George is a big fat fish in an itty bitty barrel.

I'm not angry at these guys or anything, its just that the more we examine this alledged Bush victory the more impossible it looks. Not to mention the huge and specific instances of voter fraud and violations of the Voting Rights Act we've proven. I don't have a lot of time to waste.

Anyone else doing something like this?

[Liberty Belle]

1. Yes. Salon and Slate. Why don't we e-mail them

and shame them into it, seeing as the mainstream actually IS covering this story now, and the so-called progressive sites are not.

[aquart]

6. I already told Salon.

[SueZhope]

2. YES

I stopped listening to Al Franken
also, I loved his show but when he gave the
poo poo on this issue
I was turned of

[bunny planet]

10. I also stopped listening to Franken. I do keep him on as background noise

real low so that AAR won't lose ratings. How do I tune in Thom Hartman or Ed Schultz. I'm in NJ, are they on the regular radio or do I need to stream them. What time are they on?

[KoKo]

14. Both Thom and Ed Schultz are streaming online. I can get Ed easily

but Thom's site sends me to some link that doesn't work with my RA player.

If you check their websites they probably say if they are carried in NJ.

Just remember that "Big Ed" sounds just like Limbaugh, but from the Left..his voice and his style. But, I like him and I cannot stand the sound of Limbaugh's voice. Thom I think is very different.

[SueZhope]

17. Thom

I listen to him online at Als same time (12-3)
I found this via DU its on one of the pages
at the top they post whos on ..its great

I believe in AAR......
however this Fraud story must be covered
in detail , without a fair election...
whats the point of the rest of it

[rucky]

24. I'm done with Franken as well.

Randi and Malloy are the only ones with their priorities straight right now.

[pauldp]

27. Al has wussed out.

Dam shame.

[flowomo]

3. how will you notice when they change their minds?

I'll keep reading them and let you know. :)

[goldengreek]

5. I check in every great once in a while.

But DU is definitely the clearinghouse for all the best information.

[Shalom]

13. No Doubt About It ! n/t

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

4. It's a big world out there.

Lotsa viewpoints. The vast majority do not agree with my views. If I ran away from all of them, I would be poorer for the running.

With the Dems on the House Judiciary calling an investigation, that will change. It now has cred for more to see.

[goldengreek]

8. I know.

But I've got other irons in the fire right now, and this is just a really absorbing hunt with lots of serious repercussions. With this lawsuit in Ohio, for example, we may actually be on the verge of proving enough fraud in a court of law to get Kerry sworn into office in January. That will be an amazing feat even if the Supreme Court steps in again and illegally shuts us down.

Hard to beat this action

And if Kerry really lost? Still not a waste of our time.

[SueZhope]

18. very true

lets see if the ones that have been ignoring it...
start to see it differently after that move

[ailsagirl]

7. Yes

The Left Coaster and DailyKos weren't saying much-- I don't know how much that's changed because, frankly, that's all I was interested in. Yeah, Salon.com. And The Nation (David Corn).

Whenever you hear them launch into "Why the Dems lost" and "Why Bush won this," I know I won't be hearing about voter fraud.

They're barking up the wrong tree!!

[bunny planet]

9. Yup, stopped reading Salon, Slate, Talking Points Memo.

I still check up on The Rude Pundit, and Liberal Oasis, Truthout, Common Dreams, and Bradblog. Havn't been to Atrios or Bartcop recently, are they wearing foilies over there or should I not bother.

[deansyawp]

16. Here's Another

"Political Strategy"

http://www.politicalstrategy.org/archives/000868.php

[bunny planet]

28. Thanks, I'd forgotten about this one.

[texpatriot2004]

11. Yes, sure have. n/t

[Chasing Dreams]

12. Me too. That's why I'm here now.

[GettysbergII]

15. There should be an offica list for history of the date each progressive...

...organization, blog, politician finally joins the fray. Not so much for who gets the blame as for who gets the kudos.

I guess that's why I find it so personally baffling to see anybody promoting the Bev-Keith nonsense going down.

[goldengreek]

31. That would be interesting.

But again -- I'm not mad at them or anything. It's just an exercise in frustration visiting them right now. NBC just admitted it had to downsize its estimate of the Hispanic support for Bush (back down the the level of support in 2000), which begs the question in the posting I made right before this one: who the hell took Bush over 50% if he was running dead even with Kerry going into the election and the undecideds went definitively for Kerry?

Trés strangé.

[YellowDoginthehouse]

19. me too

Stopped reading TPM and others. Still read Kos, though-some of our own people from DU are doing great work over there.

[bleever]

20. What else matters? Having a big "blame the victim" discussion?

[glitch]

21. You betcha. Just say no to faith-based vote counts.

Since the vote isn't verified, those not questioning the count are relying on nothing more than faith in the vendors.

Ridiculous.

Which reminds me, here is a link to mp3 audio of people discussing the fraud: http://www.radio4all.net/proginfo.php?id=10518

[pointsoflight]

22. Just glad that MoveOn is getting involved this time.

[cloudythescribbler]

23. issue as always is STRATEGY

There are many sites -- not only the ones mentioned but also "watchdogs" like Media Matters and Spinsanity that have not been barking much. Emerging Democratic Majority (remember they are new "Democrats") came out with a piece to REFUTE the UC Berkeley massive study. The best strategy is NOT to ignore these sites but to frequent them all the more, along with Eschaton, and hit them with comments "Why join the media lockdown?" at every single thread, as early as possible in the thread. In some, as in emerging democratic majority they choose which ones to post, so the comments have to be composed to get printed by them. But it is probably a relative waste of time to simply bombard people with emails (as in the Zoe Baird case, eg, that is only a way to launder an issue and never a way to effectively protest it). But media matters, Michael Moore, spinsanity, Eschaton, emergying democratic majority and others allow posting, so GO TO IT IN NUMBERS.

Note that this obvious form of complicity is not the only problem, but it does need to be confronted. LARGE AND MILITANT PROTESTS AT MEDIA CENTERS which are conveniently located in the center of blue areas like NY, LA and DC and not near contested areas are a good venue for activism.
"STOP THE MEDIA LOCKDOWN OF VOTERGATE 2004" "DEMOCRACY IN AMERICA, NOT JUST THE UKRAINE!"

[pauldp]

26. Good Point Cloudy

We have strong arguments and data to back up our arguments, we should be hitting all of these sites and making the case.

[Hobbes199]

25. Before this election...

I got all my news from the Daily Show, and Fark.com

[sportndandy]

29. Alternet let me down

So I let em know and they didn't even respond to my critique.

[AmyCrat]

30. I was a MyDD'er too...

Still check in there occassionally, but not as much as I did (hardly) before election night.

[libertypirate]

32. Yep- Won't read anything they produce until -->

They start fighting for democracy and act like Americans.

[milkyway]

33. Yep. Everything they write is based on the false premise that bush

received more votes than Kerry. When I go peek in at sites I respect, I have little interest right now in what they are writing about.

I avoid every single word about what the Dems need to do in the future. The Dems need to do one thing in '06 and '08--get the fucking votes counted right. I am not in the mood for any of this Dem navel gazing that's been going on. Say clearly what you stand for, then actually stand up for it, then count the damn votes.

[glitch]

34. Exactly - and also, if they are missing something so blatant as this fraud

what else are they missing? What else have they missed in the past?

[marions ghost]

40. This is a turning point for me re. news resources...

Definitely it has been an eye-opener. Now, if I go to a site that is not dealing with it, or worse, urging liberals to "move on" and figure out why it's OUR fault, or if they dare say the words "conspiracy theorists" --I don't go back. I am sticking only with news resources that are reliable on this issue, and I will read about other issues only at those sites which also are following this primary one.

Yes, we should send these views to the ones who have missed the boat, and tell them exactly why they've lost credibility.
This is THE story of the election aftermath.

[Kota]

35. DailyKos still covers it. Atrios got fed up but occasionally posts some co

[CyberChas]

36. There was the Huffington Strategy that Kerry ignored!

Arianna Huffington proposed early in the summer that the best Kerry strategy would NOT be to appeal to the small number of swing and undecided voters but to BRING OUT THE MASSES. To somehow energize the 30-50 million eligible voters who DO NOT VOTE.

This fits a bit into the VOTE FRAUD story because HAD HE DONE THIS, it would have been impossible to steal the election.

Oh yes, you can steam 2-3 million votes by taking 10-100 from every precinct, and it's only 3% or so of the total population. You can rig electronic counting to do anything you want, of course.

But, if the margin of bush "victory" had been off by 20% from the exit polls, we would have a Ukraine-like uprising right now. As it was, the 5-7% difference is statistically hard to explain, but three times that would have been such clear evidence of fraud that nobody (not even the RWMSM) could have ignored it.

It's another approach to winning in '06. If the Dems keep moving to the center, they won't have a chance.

Charlie Levenson
Portland, ORegon
[e-mail]
(phone # on request)
----
As Susan in Denver (pookysuz) says: Stay Calm, Committed, Cognitive, and Coherent!
----
If we allow this election to stand without a fight, and the media convinces the masses that it was "fair and trouble-free" then we will never have another honest election in our lifetimes in this country.

[SmokingJacket]

37. YES!!

The navel gazing, me oh my, why did lose shit gets to be too much.

It's not even worth talking about anything else until we clean up the fraud/voter suppression stuff.

[nmoliver]

38. yes

It's too distressing for me to read these sites that assume we lost the election, and then try to figure out why. This will not save us. That is a pre-Nov 2 strategy. If we keep on pretending that we have clean elections in this country, then we will be pouring all of our energy into exposing Bush and persuading people to vote against him next time, then lose the election and start planning for the next one, ad infinitum. That is a waste.

Our strategy must focus on exposing this fraud. There is no place else to go. Nobody is going to want Bush pretty soon, as the dollar collapses and the state of the economy becomes unmanageable, and as there is nothing driving this country except war. His popularity is not the problem. It is our rigged elections, our inability to get rid of him through the accustomed process.

Nina

[mountebank]

39. Yep - Talking Points Memo.

I understand why some liberal sites, like the inside the Beltway ones, need to stay distanced until something concrete breaks. But I have found it pretty hard to read those sites lately.

[KnowerOfLogic]

41. Yeah, why bother; until the vote is verified nothing else matters.