Righteous Ramblings

[righteous1]

I believe one month after the election it's time to take a good hard look at the South. Up until Bush 41, the South has been owned by the democratic party in Presidential elections. That's 141 years of everything south of the Mason/Dixon line going Democrat. Baby that is total domination. Starting earlier but showing significance in 1988 the dynamic changed. The south began voting Republican. Bill Clinton stemmed the tide some for two important reasons. 1) He is a southerner himself 2)He is a moderate that paid homage to the beliefs and mores of the southern culture. But post Clinton it has been all downhill. Gore did terribly in the south; He couldn't even manage to hold the southern swing state he represented in the Senate, Tennessee. Reason; He was a good deal more liberal than BC and he did not "connect" with his southern constitueny on a cultural level. Many SOMDs (south of Mason Dixon) had him identified more as a New England liberal than a Southern moderate, and that perception was not without merit. When John Kerry was nominated it certainly didn't take a rocket scientist to know that he wasn't going to do any better with the SOMDs than had Gore. maybe worse. The prevailing wisdom that John Edwards might pick up North Carolina for K/E and possibly a few more. Didn't happen, predominantly because Edwards wasn't even that well liked in his state. Most experts actually thought that it was good that Edwards wasn't running for a second term because there was a better than fair chance that he was going to lose the seat. Now that we have shed a bit of light on why the Democrats are not winning in the south the 2 questions that beg answering are these: Do Democrats need the south and if so what is to be done to reverse the downward spiral the Democrats have experienced there. The first question is easy, absolutely YES. If you are going to cede the south and the plethora of electoral votes held there you are going to lose elections, a lot of them. And not only the presidential elections, but lots of Senate and house seats. If in 2006 all the SOMD Senate seats up for grabs go republican, they will have a supermajority and that folks is game, set, match. The second question is a bit tougher but not without answer. The philosphical differences between the average southern state costituency and the Democrat party are significant but not insurmountable. The major disagreements are these: States rights, the south wants a stronger state the Dems want stronger centralized Federal government. Next Secular vs Religious. The south believes as a whole that religious freedom, expression and tolerance are paramount in this society and anything they percieve as a threat to that is doomed. You will find upon studying the average southern Christian that they have no desire to convert anyone. There purpose in life is not to force feed scripture down your throat or intall some warped Utopian verson of America where your forced to pray 3 times a day to there God in schools and other public places and where the Bible trumps the constituion in public policy. On the contrary the feeling is more that of leave us alone to worship as we please, let us say the pledge of allegiance where "in God we trust is included" and if we put the ten commandments in the City Hall, what harm can it possibly do. Anyone who says the US is a secular society is plain and simple full of cr@p. From the founding fathers to present day spiritualism has played a huge role in our lives and our laws and when it is percieved that the cultural fabric based on these beliefs is being torn, look out , a large number, a majority in my opinion of the people will turn on you like a cat who's tail you have just stepped on. Lastly, It's the respect stupid. Alot of people in the south have a bit of an inferiority complex when it comes to "Yankees" We bad mouth them apout there intelligence, we bad mouth them about there preferred sport (Nascar), we disparage them for being rascist and blindly hyper-religious. And we condiscend and belittle there lifestyle as being sedentary and aimless. All the above are arrogant opinions of uniformed northern elitists who are conceptully lazy and intellectually dishonest. Many parts of the south are some of the fastest growing areas of the country and a new influx of Yankees are coming in daily. This part of the country is vibrant,alive and growing, and they know it even if we don't. Finally, what is to be done. Well, there are only 2 things that will change what has been happening. The left has to move more toward the center or the SOMDs have to be moved there. My suggestion is the former. If you wait untill the latter happens if it ever does, many many elections will have been lost and the makeup of the Senate will be 65R 34D 1I. You can be smugly self assured that you are just and correct and excuse the term, righteous, and stand steadfastly with your single-minded beliefs and lose elections or you can moderate your opinions think compromise and common ground and make inroads into lost costituencies. Do you think for one minute John Kerry could have been elected dog catcher if he hadn't modified and moderated his views (at least in public), not a chance. People on the far edge (either edge) are doomed from the start, why do you think they call it the fringe. Extremists and radicals make a lot of noise but they lose elections big time. Untill we start showing the same tolerance toward faith, conservative values, and modest cultural mores that we show toward the gay lifestyle, our minority brethren, and all the other groups we happily embrace we are destined to sit on the political bench. The in your face my way is the only way self-righteous rhetoric may make you feel good, but it alienates people. It did and does in the South and it will continue to if change isn't made. If your so inclined to spout, "the south is wacked out", "they are useless and ignorant bigots", "they are stupid redneck relgious Nazis" great, be happy and indulge yourself in the belief that yours is superior. But also be prepared, be prepared for irrelevance, and for a very long time

[Trajan]

1. As much as I support our southern democrats and liberals from ...

needless and unfair criticism from unthinking DUers .... It is apparent that you are promoting the adoption of conservative VALUES to maintain a hold on the south ....

Why ? ...

Is it more important to WIN ? ... or to adhere to decent personal philosophies ? ...

If I wanted to be a conservative: I would be a Republican ....

No .... What we NEED is the reinvigoration of LIBERALISM because it is RIGHT for America ...

We need voices to speak ON OUR BEHALF, not AGAINST our beliefs ...

We need to DEFEND Liberalism against the strawman fallacies that have surrounded it, nearly unchallenged, for 30 plus years ...

I will NOT become a conservative to win ANY votes, not even in the south ....

It is not 'extremist or radical' to resist fascism or warmongering ...

It is not 'extremist or radical' to promote the social legislation that has helped sustain our lives for over 70 years running ....

It is not 'extremist or radical' to advocate the role of government to 'promote the general welfare' of it's citizens, by rule of consent .....

[righteous1]

5. I am promoting nothing

I am stating my opinion, nothing more nothing less. Give the American people credit for having seen thru the "strawman" of extreme liberalism, many chose not to embrace it. If you don't accept this you are destined to repeat the same mistakes from the past over and over. Your rhetoric is lofty but has neither meaning nor substance. Look up fascism in the dictionary. When you idly toss around inflammatory labels like Fascist or Nazi you demean the abhorrence of both. Exaggeration only serves to impune the credibilty of the exaggerator not the person he wishes to define

[Trajan]

7. We are LIBERAL ......

There is already a party for conservatives .....

Why come here and demand we become YOUR party of choice ? ... Do not ....

The Democratic Party is NOT a party of 'extreme liberalism' ... yet another fallacious assertion ....

Though some Democrats are 'extreme' they do not form the core of the party ... they are on the margins ..... your saying it is so doesnt make it so ...

Again: You want to have a conservative party ? .... cross the line ....

[righteous1]

12. I am demanding nothing from my readers or

the Democratic party. I am stating the facts and the climate of political realities as I see them.

[BlueCaliDem]

18. Yes. I give Credit to the *Educated*, and *Informed* American People...

...for having seen through acts of extreme liberalism, but in order to see, one must be willing, righteous1, and from what I've been seeing, predominantly in the south, there aren't that many "willing".

Still, aside from the fact, that Clinton won two terms not only from votes in the South, but also--and don't you forget it--from Easterners, and Westerners alike, that alone should tell you something about us "Liberuls".

In spite of his background, and his Southern roots, Clinton was embraced by the "Hollywood Elite", most liberals, and a good portion of progressives, so where does the problem then lay?

With the liberals? I don't think so. We've proven ourselves already, by voting for two Southerners.

This is not rhetoric. This is FACT.

So facts show, that the "ball" of prejudice, bigotry and alienation of everything "we don't understand" is firmly in the Southern States' court. Why should we, who have voted beyond our "soil", bend to those who don't give an inch themselves? Just how much more do you, in your lofty opinion, want Liberals, and Progressives, and Democrats alike, to bend for Southerners who refuse to see the forest for the trees??

As for Nazis...I see alarming less difference between Republicans and Nazis these days, and that's frightening. Nazis were nationalists--remember the "deutschland uber alles"--Germany above all, credo? Remember that Hitler was blessed by the then Pope to wage war against "Christs' killers"; giving birth to anti-semiticism,, and hatred against the Jews? Do you honestly see much difference between Republicans, and Southerners and Nazi sympathizers??

As for fascism...it was a word coined by the Italian dictator and Nazi sympathizer, Mussolini, who believed that corporations and government should merge into one and govern over the masses.

Do you see any difference with this administration and it's minions of corporate CEOs today that set the guidelines for Federal governance? Energy conglomerates drafting a national energy bill for all Americans; wars launched by "ex" CEOs of gigantic corporations like Halliburton? Gigantic so-called "Christian" foundations (corporations in their own right as they are tax exempt too) defining the way America should be governed?

Come on, righteous1! Open your eyes, and you will see...See, that trying to excuse the willful ignorance of those still supporting this disastrous administration, and it's reps, and senators, is a losing battle to those who do their best to open their eyes, and not talk the walk, but walk the walk of what's good, and what's right for ALL people...not only the "elected, and connected, and the wealthy".

Inflammatory labels like "Nazis" and "Fascists" are demeaning. You're right. But as the old dutch saying says: "If the shoe fits, put it on."

If one abhors being labeled one, one must gain sufficient knowledge in order to avoid being construed as one, and that can only be done, once one educates thyself.

It's really that simple--oh, and not to forget: Liberals, progressives, and real democrats WON the elections since 1992. We, in good faith, just thought that, with all that Jesus-praising, Republicans and their ilk wouldn't stoop so low as to steal the elections again, and again--you know, because of one of the Ten Commandments they so worship saying that's a sin, remember?

Intolerance is not a moral value. Bigotry, is not a moral value. Prejudice is not a moral value. Stealing, is not a moral value. Ignoring the needy, sick, and poor are not moral, nor Christian values.

If Liberals, Progressives, and Democrats seem "intolerant" of your point of view, and/or opinion, please understand, that it's not an action, but a REaction to what is thrown at us from down South, and from the right of center.

The intolerant tone by Republicans was set, when they set out to take down our last legitimately elected President for eight years to the tune of nearly 100 million taxpayers' dollars.

In those 8+ years, we've not only turned the other cheek, we've done so again, and again, and again.

Now we say: NO MORE.

[righteous1]

19. A discussuion of Republican /Democrat differences

concerning the "Clinton incident" policy issues both foreign and domestic are completely legitimate and strenuous discussion of these issues is warranted. But that is not at all what my analysis entails. For another day then.

Bigotry is the same whether it comes out of the mouth of a high minded well educated elitist or some poor dumb cracker. When the people of the south are generalized as monocular, rascist, religous zealots it's no different than ignorant redneck generalizing that most blacks are dumb useless and lazy. It's just as inflammatory and untrue regardless of who says it. And it accomplishes nothing but to diminish your cause.

I can't even address the "we voted for southerners twice" argument because it I scratch my head and still can't make any sense of it


My eyes are open, and what i see scares the he11 out of me. I see a small, highly motivated but frustrated group of intensly idealogical people who keep losing elections, who nobody pays attention to anymore because their rhetoric has become so vicious and vitriolic that no-one listens. Diatribe so exaggerated that the once proud & righteous group have become nothing more than caracatures of themselves. ie "Jesus praising Republicans" what does a label like that accomplish in the fair exchange of ideas...you no the answer, and if you don't you should

Fascism and Naziism they have been thrown around so much they have lost much of there significance. The most integral piece of a fascist regime is a dictator You may consider some of Bushs policies dictatorial but that is quite a stretch considering we just had a national election. economic regimentation, forceable suppression of the opposition, elevating the state and often race over the individual. Cmon BCD not buying it. Naziism, shouldn't even have to go there, but i will briefly. Stating that promoting a sense of "nationism"(alot of people would term it patriotism) indicates the similarities with Naziism is silly nonsense and tortured logic at best. The people making these accusations have the onus of proving that there person is what they say he is not the other way around. Most of us think that going to be a tough sell

I never planned on getting "off topic" this much, but so be it. Suffice it to say that if your angry, you feel wronged OK fine, live with it and use it to your advantage. Screaming wringing your hands and pounding your breast is not going to help. Nor is characterizing the opposition in a way that does not jibe with the facts. Credibility is very important thing in politics maybe the most important. Don't undermine an otherwise good philosophy with false premise

[TR Fan]

2. Remember, paragraphs are your friends n/t

[sam sarrha]

3. i have reading disabilities..if you separate it into sections with a space

between i will be able to read it...

as for the last part the derogatory statements are Very True around here in this part of TN.

you cant change them, we just need to get our people registered and get them a place where their votes will be counted/and recounted if necessary.. and Get them to vote..

when the extremists lose a couple times they will lose their self righteous Mandate and will go back to reading the bible and hating fagots and liberals.. in their own homes/churches.

*ush was just able to give them delusions of grandeur for a while with his "Mandate" propaganda.

but people around here can not separate the church from ANYTHING...
I went to the Unemployment Office and got a SERIOUS 3rd Degree on what church i went to and "Well Why Don't You Go To Church!!" I got a lesson in morality and a stern look as i left with the statement.."I hope i see you at our church next sunday.." more than half the time i was there was her grilling me about information of my wife mother and myself about personal things and Church.

these people are dangerous, they have no respect for anyone outside of their church.. their privacy nor the constitution.

[righteous1]

6. Sorry bout the paragraphs folks

I thought i had done that correctly but when i submitted, the paragraphs went away

[righteous1]

10. I was a transplanted Yankee, from Iowa to 55 miles

north of Tallahassee in southeastern Ga. As deep south as you can get, dry county, 18 churches per square mile etc. I lived there for nine years and never ran into prostilitizing, but i suppose it does happen

[blueatheart]

16. pledge of allegiance written by god...

thats what a teacher said to room of 3rd graders here in Duval County. First time I brought my kids to doctors when we moved here, the nurses first question was "what church you go to, you need to check out our church". I could go on and list hundreds more like discussions.

The worst needless acts of violence I have seen anywhere are from these "more moral" zealots. I am not saying all of Duval is like this, but a large portion is and Duval is hardly the "deep south".


Bush could be filmed on national tv murdering little children with his bare hands, say its gods way and they would shake their heads in agreement. They are "always right" and use the bible to excuse their unethical behaviors.

[righteous1]

20. Have always found that

exceptions can be found for everything

[pnutchuck]

4. I agree with some of your points concerning the South

however, I am from Texas, born and raised. I've lived in CA now for almost 11 years. You are correct that the south is expanding and vibrant. However, religious conversion is a priority in most areas. I can't tell you how many times my door got knocked on Saturday morning in the hopes that they might gain another parishoner. And they weren't subtle either, insisting on discussing my beliefs and inundating me with flyers and brochures. Forget about talking to them for a few moments out of politeness, or they'd be back next Sat. South Carolina has put stickers in their childrens' public school biology books stating that "evolution is a theory, not a fact". As you said, many 'Yankees' are being relocated to the south for jobs, how is it fair that their children must be submitted to beliefs that the family does not agree with?
Many of these corporations that are setting up in the south are doing so because they are courted with tax exempt buildings and properties. They offer northern families the ability to retain their jobs by relocating. Many of these corporations, like GM completely shut down factories to take them to more lucrative areas in the south what with properties so much cheaper and the offers of tax exemption. When they do this, they destroy the original town and offer little options for the northern families but relocation.
Yes, Northerners are typically arrogant regarding the intelligence of the Southerners. I was told to lose my accent before competing in a National Debate because most of the judges were "Yankees". There is still a real division that exists between the North and the South, but I don't believe we Dems should move to the center. If we do that, then we are no longer Dems, we are Repukes. The Dems do not believe in suppressing religious freedom, they do believe in allowing all people to have their beliefs without risk of ridicule. The South is not known for it's tolerant attitude to outside religions. Hell, I was raised Southern Baptist, but began practicing Buddhism about 7 yrs ago. Whenever I go home, I can't even mention this without everyone, and I mean everyone, telling me that Jesus loves me and will forgive me if I come back to him. I believe in humanity, in forgiveness, in fairness, in tolerance, in understanding. I don't believe in violence, or hate, or bigotry, or lying. If that makes me too far to the left, then so be it. I have no intention of moving any farther to the right, I am left and proud of it.

[righteous1]

8. Do you believe that John McCane is a republican?

Well most republicans would disagree with that. A great quote said (don't remember who) "Well I've pi$$ed off both sides, must have it right"

[pnutchuck]

14. Yes, he supported his party against overwhelming evidence of

fraud and corruption. I don't care if he has some values that swing to the left, he put his support in Bush and that means he's a repuke.

[Yupster]

9. Righteous

Paragraphs please. Some of us aren't as young as we used to be and our eyes go a flitter.

[righteous1]

11. If someone gives me a heads up as to how to edit and correct

that, I would be happy to

[pnutchuck]

13. just go to your post and click edit at the bottom

you can then go in and click enter between the sentences that end and start new paragraphs.

[righteous1]

15. Missed my edit window, sorry, will correct next time

[righteous1]

17. Post Script

I get the feeling that some of you after reading this have the impression that I am pushing you to foresake your "liberal roots". Nothing could be further from the truth. Embrace your ideology espouse it to the heavens. My analysis is directed only toward how elections are won (or lost) do to the "Southern factor". In case it didn't "read through", the criticism i am levying is that of presentation and affiliation. Inflammatory rhetoric, mischaracterization and exaggeration are completely self defeating. Remember the South went with the Dems even though plenty of "issues" existed. We must only be cautious that excessive or extreme fringe issues that we mindlessly promote can ballast the boat to the point of sinking it.