It's either next week or nothing

[JPJones]

The Ohio vote will be certified on Monday. Either the Kerry campaign has evidence of fraud or they don't. I don't think a recount alone will turn up enough votes (you can't count ballots that are in a dumpster behind the BOE).

One important point is that voter suppression by providing too few machines IS election fraud. If only one voter was unable to wait for 5+ hours to vote, you must revote in the whole state.

The modes of fraud:
1) Vote early, vote often - The Daley technique, somewhat elaborate in that it requires fake ID. Will not be detected by a recount.
2) Destroy ballots - If the voter rolls are untampered, then the missing ballots would be detected by a recount.
3) Destroy ballots, replace with fraudulent ballots - This is more likely. The thing to look for would be straight Republican party votes (who has the time to vote for the judges, etc., when you have thousands of ballots to fill out).
4) Spoil ballots - intentionally add overvotes by selecting mulitiple candidates. Would not be detected in a recount.
5) Manipulate counting machines - program the machines to read the votes incorrectly. Would be detected by a hand recount.
6) Forget to count ballots from certain precincts - should be detected by a recount.

Does anyone know if the Kerry campaign is looking at the voter rolls? Surely a signature is required to vote. Are they counting signatures.

I also hope that in suspicious precincts, someone goes door-to-door to figure out how Badnarik or Cobb got >20% of the vote, for example.

Another thing you can do - police your own precinct. Have you looked at the results in your precinct yet? How many undervotes in your precinct? Anything suspicious compared to 2000?

[shraby]

1. An inordinately high number of absentee

ballots in any precinct could be another red flag.

[JPJones]

3. That's a bit dangerous, if the voter didn't request an

absentee ballot and actually shows up to vote, that would be a huge red flag.

But it could be done with very infrequent voters or dead voters.

Or, poor ballot control by the BOE, but that should show up in the records.

[berniew1]

11. 93,000 uncounted votes still- mostly punch card failures(hanging chad)

These are mostly undervotes on punch card ballots, similar to Florida in 2000. Most counties in Ohio use punch card ballots which are subject to high undervotes. Most of these are in the Urban Kerry areas. There are maps showing their distribution.
The majority of these votes when hand counted are likely to go to Kerry. Ohio has uniform rules on how to count hanging chad. That should begin soon. With all of the indications of glitches, irregularities, mistakes, fraud, as well as these; Kerry has a good chance to overtake Bush in the recount- just based on things that have already been documented by Dr. Phillips.

[ClassWarrior]

2. Bush** doesn't get inaugurated till Jan.20. And the way...

...these past four years have gone, who knows what we can make happen??

NGU.

[politicasista]

6. How can we make that happen?

Smirky has already has his cabinet in place, people are telling us to move on and get over it, while P'd off at the Kerry campaign for doing "nothing." How can that happen? Bush always get his way.

[ClassWarrior]

9. You really like to play the victim to Bush**, don't you?

I'm not listening to people telling us to move on and get over it, and I'm not pissed off at the Kerry campaign for doing "nothing" (as a matter of fact, he's deployed attorneys, joined a lawsuit, and donated funds to the WA recount).

I am doing what I -- repeat, I -- have to do to expose this. You need to choose your own actions to take. Donate to the Glibs, volunteer to recount in OH, send letters to the editor, stage a rally in your own community. That's how we can make something happen. And we're slowly-but-surely doing it. At least those of us who are doing something.

NGU.

[ClassWarrior]

13. No answer?

Another hit and run "bon-bon" post, it seems...

NGU.

[genieroze]

14. people are telling us to move on and get over it

Oh well, they can all eat sh*t and die. eom

[berniew1]

12. There is a lot of detailed analysis indicating glitches and/or fraud

Stealing Votes in Columbus http://web.northnet.org/minstrel/columbus.htm
Stealing Votes in Cleveland http://web.northnet.org/minstrel/cleveland.htm

Indications of possible ballot box stuffing in S.W. Ohio
http://web.northnet.org/minstrel/warren.htm
www.flcv.com/swohio.html
www.flcv.com/fraudioh.html
Favoritism in the Suburbs
http://web.northnet.org/minstrel/suburbs.htm

Analysis Indicates Kerry could win Ohio with a "fair process" and fair vote count
http://web.northnet.org/minstrel/uncounted.htm
http://www.opednews.com/shurberg_112004_election.htm
Voter Suppression
www.votersunite.org/electionproblems.asp?sort=date&selectstate=OH&selectproblemtype=ALL
www.flcv.com/ohiov04.html

[seito]

16. Hmmmm..... n/t

[CantGetFooledAgain]

4. This is good information...a couple of questions for you

I hope the investigators are looking at this the same way you have. This is exactly what is needed: a definitive list of how it could have been done, and the kinds of cross-checks that could uncover it.

So much comes down to the security of the physical ballots themselves, which have been sitting around for over a month now. I find this alarming.

Questions/remarks on some of these "modes":

1) if not by recount, is there ANY reasonable way to determine if this technique was employed?

2) What if the voter rolls WERE tampered with? Any way to detect this?

3) Does ballot numbering provide any security or cross-check for mode 2 or 3? Or is it easy to get around by reprinting ballots?

4) ...but could possibly be hinted at by statistical analysis of number of overvotes by location. Also, would be difficult to do, because the after-the-fact ballot tampering would have to be coordinated with doctoring of totals in multiple places.

5) This combined with matching ballot tampering (mode 2,3,or 4) it seems to me would be undetectable and is likely to be what was done.

Bottom line: there's too many ways that they could have gotten away with this.

[JPJones]

5. It sounds silly, but I think the best way to determine

the feasibility of fraud, 9/11 conspiracy, etc, is to try to write a short story describing how it was done. In doing so, you figure out what is possible and what is impossible.

[Imajika]

10. That is not silly at all

Personally, I don't believe in the massive voting fraud conspiracies being tossed about.

But if I were actively investigating it, I'd do just what you suggested. Most writers do this all the time. Think of a sci-fi writer who wants to tell a fantastic story of something that seems unbelievable, so they have to think outside the box to make it plausible and realistic. In doing so, you just might stumble onto something.

What was it the Bush administration was saying after September 11th, that there was a failure of imagination right? Though it may not apply to them since it is clear many folks were perfectly aware that terrorists might use jetliners as suicide missiles, it does apply elsewhere.

Imajika

[acmavm]

7. Can someone please explain one thing to m?. With all the voter

registration fraud that has not only been documented but there are witnesses ready willing and able to testify about, why has no one ever thought about a civil lawsuit for violations of rights? I know that the Constitution doesn't outline an American's right to vote, but a historical proof of a 'custom' of something, can sometimes (maybe) he shown that this in fact is the right of the American people. An established precedent or procedure. Okay, I said that very very badly, let me try again for those who are wondering if I've lost my mind.

Voting for the president by the American people has been a 'tradition' how many hundred years? Well, after that long, wouldn't it be established that the people have that right, regardless of the lack of any Constitutional specificity? Okay, then if that is (or might be the case), wouldn't depriving an individual or group of individuals of that right be a violation of their civil rights? Especially if it was directed at a specific race or group of citizens?

Does anyone understand what I mean? Am I making any sense whatsoever? Am I just imagining that the voter registration fraud should also be included as a main issue in this election that was stolen?

Please don't be mean, but if you think that I'm wrong, tell me.

And by the way, don't hit me with any stuff about the electoral college, I understand that that is a separate issue. I just want to know about the general election for president.

[JPJones]

8. I hope some of these issues will be addressed

Some here at DU have focused on them, e.g. ladylawprof, etc.

[NVMojo]

15. with the repuke SOS from NV taking a bill to DC a few months

ago with Reid and Ensign from NV a few months ago to force every state in the nation to use e-machines by 2006, we might as well screw the pooch.

"Heller traveled to Washington on Wednesday to discuss the state's effort with Nevada lawmakers, including the possibility of providing them with voting machines to show to colleagues, according to spokesman Steve George.

Sens. John Ensign, R-Nev., and Harry Reid, D-Nev., are promoting an Ensign bill that would require all states to follow Nevada's lead and allow voters to review ballot printouts in time for the 2006 elections. "

http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2004/Jul-17-Sat-2004/news/24333313.html