MoveOn moves on with no mention of election fraud?

[KaryninMiami]

This is rather disturbing. Their new direction press release doesn't mention voter fraud - period. Yet their site still has Investigate the Vote on the top of the page. Any thoughts? Have they decided not to proceed with supporting the investigation? I hope not but found this piece rather disturbing...

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/120504W.shtml


Final paragraph/summary:

In the short term, MoveOn's leaders say its mission remains the same: mobilizing rapid response on issues of concern to the organization, from the Iraq war to future battles over Social Security privatization and nominations to the U.S. Supreme Court.

In the long term, Boyd said, the group will seek a more substantial foundation for the progressive movement, from creating think tanks to counteract the conservative Heritage Foundation and Hoover Institution to building grass roots networks that rival the Republican Party's deep ties to evangelical churches.

"People really feel like they're at the beginning of a movement rather than the end of a campaign," said political director Eli Pariser. "It's such an exciting feeling for a lot of these people, and it mitigates some of the heartbreak of the next four years."

MoveOn's many boosters say that despite the election's outcome, the group motivated voters more effectively this year than either Kerry or the Democratic Party. The group was also widely credited with its rapid reaction to news events, even launching ads renouncing the claims made by the anti-Kerry group Swift Boat Veterans for Truth before the Kerry campaign responded to those charges.

[davidwparker]

1. Not at all. I gave $50 to their recount efforts in WA.

On C-SPAN, the Dem party leader thanked MoveOn members for contributing over $250K raised at the last minute. He tanked the Dean folk too. Dean!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[KaryninMiami]

2. Ok - but what about the rest of the story- such as Ohio? Florida? Etc.?

[davidwparker]

18. Ohio/FL is being covered by

Greens/Libertarian, the Dem party, and even Kerry (imagine that) joined.

Bev Harris is covering FL

[Eloriel]

3. Of course Dean

Always ready to show the DNC what nitwits they are, step in where they've created a gargantuan breach.

Go, Howard!

[Zan_of_Texas]

4. I have a really hard time getting a bead on Move-on.

Many many months ago, they had one of those take-the-pulse things on their website, and the election verification issues were no. 1 or no. 2, and NOTHING came of it from Move-on. There were countless passionate statements at the site about it, many with plenty of detail and info.

I went to one of their house parties before the election, and people were typing in their comments, and they were supposed to be shown all over at all the parties at the same time. But the only comments that showed up seemed to be prepackaged -- the ones our group typed in did not, nor did any that rocked the boat even slightly.

The Move-on heads have said that their little group actually makes the decisions -- it is NOT a democratic organization.

Larry Bensky (Pacifica Radio long-time political correspondent) said today on air that he has sent them numerous emails, and has not been able to get a response -- that he would like to interview them.

As messy as we all know democracy is, I think is a bit odd to use a model of "just send the money, we'll make the decisions" and never give a real grass roots method of decision-making to the people supplying the buckets of dough. To make a more responsive democracy.

[serryjw]

5. This is total Bushit........

I have given up on non-profits and 527's. This is a business that keeps them EMPLOYED. If they don't work for the most important issue( election fraud) the rest is Buishit. THEY are part of the BIG Corporate Bushit just like the DLC is. I will work with a grass roots candidate ( like DK and Mike Miles) or I won't do anything. I am not going to support their lifestyle. PFAW also said they would have thousands of boots on the ground DEFENDING the election....so what happened?
I sent a REALLY nasty letter to the Wellstone organization because they are so business educating grassroots people they don't see the forest thru the trees.

We need another party

[davidwparker]

19. I agree with what you're saying.

I'm giving the Dems through 2008 to nominate Dean and either cast my vote for him or write him in. Like you with DK -- who I came to respect during the primaries, what a guy -- I will ONLY vote or support what is right, not a strategic vote.

Dean, DK, and Nadar (the original Dean in spades) have it absolutely right. There is collusion between the parties.

If I'm going to vote for a candidate who is going to lose (or more accurately, walk away amid shots of fraud), then I'm going to lose voting for the best candidate and not the lesser of two evils.

[serryjw]

26. Isn't it a shame .......

that is our only choices?

[Helga Scow Stern]

6. I have been wondering what they're up to all night...

We got these emails from them that look very promising, but I wonder who they are talking about when they say they have thousands of volunteers helping with the recounts. Maybe they are just asking people in those states? Anybody know?:

Dear MoveOn member,

We're excited to tell you that your contribution yesterday not only helped us hit our goal of at least $250,000 to contribute to the Washington State recount but put the Gregoire campaign over the top. They announced today that they have successfully raised the minimum $750,000 that they need to proceed and they have called for the hand recount to begin. Christine Gregoire called personally and asked us to express her gratitude to you and other MoveOn members for helping ensure that all the ballots will be counted fairly.

Our efforts won't stop here: in Washington we are also recruiting MoveOn members to volunteer as recount observers, to watch that each ballot is counted fairly. A few thousand other volunteers have signed up for recounts in OH and NM. And additional funds raised above the $250,000 for the Gregoire campaign will go to support recounts and investigations in other states--overall we raised more than $400,000 including contributions from every state plus DC, Puerto Rico, and the Virgin Islands.

Fair and open elections are crucial prerequisites for a healthy country. Thank you again for your contribution and your help in safeguarding our democracy.

Sincerely,

--Adam Ruben
MoveOn PAC
December 3, 2004

PAID FOR BY MOVEON PAC www.moveonpac.org
Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

[jamboi]

9. I've been puzzling over MoveOn too. It seems to me they are still in idle

along with the rest of the Dems leadership. I think they don't want to get ahead of Kerry just like I think Moore doesn't want to be seen as leading the way. Highly annoying. But this is why http://usvip.org/ did their action today to highlight the election fraud scandal and try to get MoveOn to MoveNow. Please follow the directions found there to "vote" for MoveOn to get involved.

[Helga Scow Stern]

11. I did go there and vote. But I've heard that they hardly look at that.

[righteous1]

13. I guess they moved on n/t

[kk897]

16. MoveOnPAC is supposedly different from MoveOn.org

In the meetings for the PAC they kept making that point. Don't know if that's relevant to the discussion, but just wanted to float that by you.

[lthuedk]

7. These are words of denial and false rationale.

If the real reason Bush is still president is too painful for them to realize, then they should...

...move on.

[KoKo]

8. The Truthout Writer Fouhy got the Latino vote wrong. New statistics from

a Latino polling organization said the Latino vote did not break for Bush, and NBC revised the Latino vote numbers down just last week.

So Move On's statement in the article is wrong...but they didn't know at the time. I also questioned the "married white women vote" since the Latino vote was off.

[garybeck]

10. check their home page... story #1 is "Investigate the Vote"

I agree the "new direction" thing should have mentioned the problems with the election.

but if you go to their home page, the top story is the election problems and they seem to be still invovled in it.

[EFerrari]

20. Largely symbolic?

Asking a Republican Congress to investigate the Republican machines that favored the Republican incumbent seems to me not to be a winning strategy.

[max sg]

12. Concession

I'm still in a lot of pain that we conceeded so quickly. What happened to the 50 million dollars we had set aside for lawsuits. Edwards was a trail lawyers for God's sake. I'm still feeling betrayed.

[KaryninMiami]

14. Write to MoveOn and ask them to print a retraction or amendment

At most of the house parties they mention, voter fraud was the number 1 topic yet it was not mentioned in the press release truth.out sent last night. Election investigation is indeed on their front page, but we need MoveOn to take a more active part in spreading the word and supporting these efforts. I don't know about you, but I donated quite a lot of time and money to MoveOn who I believed were a champion of like minded issues- for them to ignore this issue is not good enough. Plus, they have access to George Soros and to his donations which could fund our media campaign (massive advertising) which we desperately need now with most
MSM being in lock-down. A full page ad in 10 major newspapers demanding an investigation, listing the links and some of the blaring issues, would make a HUGE difference in getting the word out. MoveOn has access to the funds that could do this and has access to people who can help.

WRITE TO THEM- Demand that they take action.

Remind them that Our democracy is at stake here.

[Eric J in MN]

15. MoveOn is raising money for recounts in OH, NM, and FL.

https://www.moveonpac.org/donate/recount.html

Support important recount efforts

MoveOn members have contributed over $400,000 so far, including $250,000 that put Christine Gregoire, the Democratic candidate for governor in Washington State, over the top and allowed the hand recount there to proceed. Additional funds raised will be used to support recounts and vote investigations in other states, including OH, NM, and FL. Please donate now.

[IndyOp]

17. MoveOn, Common Cause, DFA all appear to be on board

Check out the National Ballot Integrity Project <http://www.ballotintegrity.org/> -

MoveOn.Org, Democracy for America, Common Cause, Verified Voting Foundation, Black Box Voting, True Majority, Working Assets, Rock The Vote, People for the American Way, Electronic Freedom Foundation, Voice for Change, Lawyers Committee on Civil Rights, CountTheVote.Org, Interfaith Communities, United for Justice & Peace, Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility... ALL seem to be working on recounts and more...

Someone on another thread mentioned that the National Ballot Integrity Project is actually the work of DU'er Hedda_foil. Wow!

[trudyco]

23. I guess I need to get on their lists

I want to see what steps they are taking and 2 way communication. Same problem I have with the dems.

We should have by now a concise explanation of the:
1) Opportunity for Fraud (who owns what and who are they)
* Counting machines
* evote machines
* Ballots
* Military "secure" votes
* Voting lists, registration, felons lists

2) How buggy the computers were at the least and how many people voted into a black void (were they strategically placed?)

2) The fact that Gore won in 2000 and the Supreme Court told us to move on. We see even worse stuff going on this election and we don't want to move on this time. We want justice. HAVA made it worst.

3) Voter suppresion via voting machine allocation.

4) Strange cases of people no longer on the voter registry or having their identity challenged.

5) Minority/democrat overrepresentation in under/overvotes and spoiled ballots.

6) Election officials who coach the team and umpire at the same time. They purposely obstruct the right to recount.

7) Lack of an individual's right to vote in the constitution and lack of federal standards for voting for federal offices including shoddy tracking of ballots, storing ballots and equipment, absentee ballots, provisional ballots, what to count in a hand recount.

I would think one of these groups has a PR firm that knows how to package this in Newspaper AD form, Pamphlet form, and made for TV form.

They should also be proving fraud by canvassing people in suspect precincts, organizing rallies (a point person in every state), and have media blaster organizations to counteract any BS media.

[Malva Zebrina]

21. It's really too bad that we find ourselves in this postion

in order to prove that the election was "stolen" again or that there was fraud.

There were four years to do something about it.

We have many groups jumping on this and unfortunately, it appears tp be chaos and appears to be sour grapes at this point. Why?

Without a Kerry or an Edwards behind it, it will continue to be chaos with small grassroots organisations drumming for more money to continue--but continue what?

I am not saying they should give up, but it appears to me that it is beating a dead horse in spite of the tenaciousness of those advocates, if there is NO ONE with ANY authority, such as Kerry or Edwards, beating the same drum.

Sorry to those who are working so hard to prove some kind of voter fraud in Ohio no matter what. I respect your efforts. But there were four years to do something about it by people who did have SOME authority, and it simply and regrettably fell by the wayside. We need to ask why that was allowed.

Hysteria and sensationalism by persons digging in garbage in Florida and filing Qui Tam law suits that seem to be frivolous and geared toward collecting some big bucks, does NOT help this cause.

It, in fact, has hurt the cause and contributes to the chaos.

At this point, without any one like Kerry or Edwards involved, it looks like a crazy quilt.

[corbett]

22. Grassroots Patchwork Is A Good Beginning

I have to concur. However, if you remember how poorly things went for Gore in the 2000 crisis because he bungled the controversy, Kerry and Edwards are wise to remain mostly incognito for now. After Ohio certifies, they'll be in a MUCH better position to decry how wrong the vote was in that state since hundreds of sworn affidavits from defrauded and disenfranchised voters will have been received and made available to press and public at large by then.

Make sure that you check out

http://www.moderateindependent.com/v2i21election.htm

[Malva Zebrina]

24. If there is nothing but patches all over the place

and all sewed together in crazy fashion, the entire quilt looks bizarre, hurts the eye, and is nothing more than a bunch of patches from used up clothing that do not match sewn toghether in order to make a bedspread.

What is needed is a distinct and disciplined completely measured and exact pattern that is strong.

There is no one providing that necessary template.

We cannot continue to give our hard earned money out to every grassroots movement, hither, thither and yon and expect that this distribution of money over a wide range of those who are challenging the Ohio vote, will accomplish something.

It cannot.

It needs a strong leader and a strong challenge and a consistent, deliberate and exact measured pattern and that is what is missing from the vote challenge quilt.


my two cents

[Peace Patriot]

25. So,

Malva, BECOME that leader. Design the quilt.