My night w/ Thom Hartmann

[WilliamPitt]

I mentioned this in a thread yesterday:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=112521&mesg_id=112521

I didn't know what to expect when I got there. I'd been told it was a 'dinner party,' but as it turned out, it was a party party with food...so there were a lot of people, a lot of milling about, your standard crowd issues etc. It was fun.

I cornered Hartmann in one room with a few other people. Right off the bat, I have to tell you that he is one of the smartest humans I've ever spoken to, and is also a really sweet, nice, funny guy. His wife is at least as smart and funny as he is. Anyone who thought this was some wild-eyed conspiracy bombthrower can put that to rest; he is a straight up academian with an incredible amount of data at his immediate command.

I have to apologize, because the conversation did not linger very long on the voting issues. We sat around with a lot of other smart people and hashed out strategies to deal with it all, and everyone was excited about the Conyers hearings. Most of the questions you all put forward did not get into the conversation, I am sorry to say.

I got the definite sense that Hartmann was stepping lightly around the voting issue because he'd been forced a couple of weeks ago to publish a retraction and an apology for some of the stuff he'd written. Specifically on the Jeff Fisher/Florida thing, Thom was very clear that there isn't anything at all to that particular angle.

Most of our conversation, actually, was centered around all the work he's done on the Santa Clara v. Southern Pacific SCOTUS case that gave corporations 14th Amendment rights, i.e. the birth of corporate personhood. The story is amazing, insane and frustrating as hell, and will be the subject of an essay of mine really soon. Just a wild story. Mr. Hartmann is very, very, very smart, and, oh yes, he already knows about and loves DU. :hi: Thom!

There were two other people at the party who I had a great time talking to. One was Chris Lydon. Anyone here who listened to 'The Connection' on NPR will remember Lydon as being, basically, the inventor of intelligent talk radio. He's a really nice guy, sharp as a tack, and an attentive listener. He got an earful from me oin Iraq, Iran and the vote, I can tell you. Those of you who enjoyed his work should know that he is working hard to get back into the game, big time. Stay tuned for that.

The other person I met, and wound up talking to nonstop until 5am, is a man named Stirling Newberry. Newberry is one of those guys who has seen and done so much across so many spectrums - political, econmomic, military - that his grasp on the issues is spherical in nature; i.e. he has wisdom from all the angles. I was deeply impresed by him, his thoughts, his strategies, and what he thinks the real ballgame is about. An example of his thinking can be found here:

http://www.bopnews.com/archives/002338.html

I came away from the night filled with the knowledge that we have a lot of goddam smart people on our side who are working very hard at think-tanking a new route to victory for us and our causes. It was a good feeling.

[stella2cat]

1. thank you, maybe we need to be devious as well as smart :-) n/t

[JoMama49]

12. Definitely devious and suspect everything & everyone!

I was just listening to 911 Truth Radio. One thing that is scary is that they report when September 11th happened, national and international headlines were just about to bust out with the fact that Gore really won the 2000 election. They had to quickly engineer 911 to get the Florida recount off the headlines. And, that was when they had only been in power for a year and a half. Now that they've sewed it all up, what will they do if the electronic voter fraud gets so big that the MSM is starting to broadcast it? How can we ward off a diversionary tactic like marshall law, red terror alerts or worse? The 911 Truth radio url is:
http://911truthradio.com/. Click on Stream 1.
JoMama.

[MarkusQ]

17. Do you have text links to this, or to supporting evidence? (n/t)

[havocmom]

2. Thank you, Mr. Pitt. Sometimes we need to know we are not the only

howlers in the night. ;)

[johnnie]

3. Sounds like a intellectually stimulating evening

It once again proves that us "libruls" aren't all as moranic as the other side likes to think we are. I would have loved to been in the company of some of those you were with last night.
Thanks for the report Will, and I'm glad you had a good time.

[intelle]

4. Thank you so much for this report, Will

It sounds like you had an amazing evening. I kind of envy you...:-)

I posted this in another thread, but I wanted to post here also that I have a concern about the Conyers forum. What if Blackwell doesn't show? What happens then?

Just a thought, but it occurred to me that the Dems are in the minority so much so that this thing is not even a hearing...it is a forum. So, how seriously will Blackwell take it?

Thanks again, Will!!!

:toast:

[WilliamPitt]

8. I guaran-damn-tee that Blackwell won't show.

No way, no how. Bank on it.

[intelle]

10. But then

why the excitement over the "hearings"? Will they go on as planned, do you think?

Many of us are emailing and calling C-Span to cover this. I just hope there will be something to cover.

Thanks for responding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jamboi]

9. Its quite possible Blackwell chooses not to come, but if he does we've got

to work him if he doesn't come. The forum will go on without him and I'm sure we'll have great speakers so it will be a good thing either way. Since he wouldn't be under oath, I wonder if its better if he doesn't come, and then he'll likely look like he's afraid w/o his disinformation being put out.

[intelle]

11. Jamboi

Very good point. I was afraid that, since Blackwell is the "star" of this investigative effort, there would be no forum if he didn't show.

BTW...am PM'ing you on another matter...:-)

[intelle]

I finally get it

Will...my mind does not work in this way...so had to think about it for a while.

Yes, I think you are right...it WOULD be better if he didn't show.

Now, if this would just, for once, make it to MSM, life would be good..:-)

Thanks, Will!

[bleever]

5. Thanks, Will, and it must be said that here on DU a lot of us

hold you and your work in very high esteem too. Truthout has been an invaluable resource for me over the last year and more, both for information and inspiration, and you've provided the lion's share of the latter.

Glad to have you with us.

[NEOBuckeye]

6. There's always more reason to hope.

Thanks for sharing your experiences, Will. In times like these, it's good to be reminded that we still have people like Thom Hartmann in our camp.

[Sideways]

7. Ciao Will ......Baby Still Needs A Kiss We Are In Sicily Now

Thanks for the insight. Wine glass lifted and a kiss for you from Peyton. I want to send you some wine PM me your address. Love Mary T.

[dweller]

13. Question

Do you have a link to the Hartmann retraction? It may have been on DU, but then i missed it. Was it about the Fisher/Fla thing, or some other story?

glad you had a good time at the 'dinner party' . . .5am, did they serve breakfast too? :)

dp

[KoKo]

14. Thanks for the report, Will. And, understand why you didn't get to ask

questions, but what you reported is a good "perk up." I have to believe that all the intelligent and "down to earth" folks out there will someday be heard and that they can't "keep us down in the basements" much longer!

Hope the food was good...(better than canned ravioli}, and thanks for giving us the info! Brainstorming is the Best! We need more of it...with interesting minds working together but also working together while "relaxing."

Will check out Stirling Newberry, but remember a thread on him back from the "Primary Battles" where lots of us were asking: "Who is Stirling Newberry?"

[WilliamPitt]

15. He worked with the Clark campaign

so that's probably why he came up in a primary conversation. Google his name and you'll see what he's done.

[KoKo]

16. Some "Key Points" from Newberry.....

His "Theory/Rant" is worth a read. And, among many interesting points these stood out in my mind." Our "DU Marketeers" would find these points interesting as many articles verifying this "financially" have been posted on Ozymandius daily post in "Latest Breaking News" Forum here on DU. Many of us have been concerned about much of what Newberry says for awhile now. Just some small "snips" of the article which appealed to me......
------------------------

The second is the right wing has a replacement system for the New Deal: namely, a militarized society, where prisons, air craft carriers, defense procurment, homeland security and contracting in endless foreign wars - they pay truck drivers in Iraq more than many doctors in the US make - would replace civilian domestic spending. This trade has two important benefits for the parasitic classes: first they don't feel like parasites, on the contrary, they are the holy crusaders, the most important function of society. Second, it means their social structure - of moral and intellectual rigidity and bloody mindness - is the important one. They win, economically, politically, and personally.

The warnings from Madison and the founding fathers were clear: standing armies were the bane of a free people, and as soon as a majority could vote itself a subsidy from the public chest, it would be the end of free government. And so it has come to pass: the standing military, which Eisenhower called the "military industrial complex" has found itself a majority with which to tyrannize.


(SNIP)
The reason the left has been so weak is that the activist left sees itself as anti-capitalist, anti-corporation and anti-development and preaches radical agrarian austerity. Instead, it is through capitalism, corporations and development that the liberal wing of the polity will survive and grow. It is rent, not capital, that voted for Bush. Owning stock doesn't make one a capitalist - one is renting money to others.

The need to protect this rental system rests on the view that money is a thing that you accumulate. This means that the bottom of society works by a "quantity theory of money". Inflation is caused by there being money available for consumption. They are in favor of the rich getting richer - because the rich will vacuum up every cent at the bottom, and therefore keep prices stable.

This structure - trading income taxes for property taxes - which levels the real value of property - trading military for civilian growth - which favors the "God and Country" society - and trading rigid for flexible social arrangements - is not a distraction, and it is not immediately doomed. That is, as long as they can charge the rest of the world for the US protection of the oil system, they can get away with it. This will not last long, but it might be long enough to Japanify the society - create a permanent closed system within which there is no real social mobility, except by occasional windfall. The Lottery Effect.

(SNIP)


What is fundamentally broken is this: banks can loan money for assets - mostly development of land. But land value is supported by cheap oil. One "wins" the land rush by going farther out than other people, building on cheap land, and hoping enough people follow you to make prices spike through the roof. This means burning more oil.

But oil is in shorter and shorter supply - we are, therefore, burning oil to support land prices. There is an economic civil war, and the Saudis are selling both sides the ammunition. This means that the problem is that the relative land/oil price in the US is out of balance - people burn oil to pay less for land.

(SNIP)

So that is the conflict - the lower middle and wealthy against the lowest and the professional class. It is a recipe for violence, because there is no compromise - one social-economic system or the other will win out. It is a recipe for constitutional, not democratic, change - because the people themselves are bitterly divided. It is also a recipe, as history shows, for election fraud and manipulation, as the side with the "tyranny of the majority" seeks to selectively disenfranchise the other, to hold on to the extraordinary powers of a constitutional moment.
It is winner take all.

[gorbal]

18. :)

Hey look, Bill's cute-

http://www.truthout.org/overview.htm

[helderheid]

19. And smurt to boot!

Yeaow!

Thanks for the report, Will!

[myschkin]

20. Advertisings in news papers about the questionable election

William, maybe you look at our threads:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x114873
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x115059
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x115227

I hope you'll support us...

Please contact Karyn (KaryninMiami) at [e-mail]

[KoKo]

31. Kick...........

:kick:

[progressoid]

21. Thanks William - the Sterling Newberry link is outstanding!

[liberalnurse]

22. Excellent update.....

It is apparent that we may be slow on the draw but we are straight shooters in the end.....

This update coupled with the Columbus Rallies yesterday, tells me that we are circling the wagons. Lots of brainstorming going on, lots of passion. Soon we will lock in on action steps......

[cyn2]

23. Thanks for the report.

Sounds like one of those fantasies where you get to have dinner with whoever you want and you choose the most interesting people you know.

Thanks for taking the time to share it all with us.

[rdmccur]

24. Do you know Naomi Klein

at the Guardian? She seems like a pretty independent and smart journalist. Would she be a good person to clue in on the election fraud business (or does she already know)? Will she write something on it?

[Bread and Circus]

25. Well I've known Stirling Newberry since the early draft Clark days...

and he is brilliant in many ways. He's probably the
best writer the Draft Clark movement had.

You should him ask him about his involvement in that because
he was a prime motivator but became one of its most controversial
figures.

I've only communicated with him via email and online chatting
in the main Draft Clark Yahoo group but I probably know more
about him than most here would believe. I was also more involved
in the Draft Clark movement at a higher level than many here would
believe as well.

I had a big falling out w/ Stirling but in the long run I think
he was right about a great many things. I'm no fan of his but
I respect his intellect.

He would be an asset to DU but In some ways what he was to the
Draft Clark movement, Will Pitt is that to DU so perhaps we don't
need two.

BTW, he didn't like getting graded either.

P.S. Ask Stirling what these mean:

"If he runs, he wins"
"We can do this. We are doing it"

[KoKo]

26. Kick...for Will's "Long Night" with Newberry.....it's a good read...n/t

[caligirl]

27. Reassuring to me as well. Thanks for the update.N/T

[ohio_liberal]

28. Apparently the admiration is mutual

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/12/6/144245/095

[frank frankly]

29. i agree. will is an inspiring person.

and he kicks ass daily.

right on, will.

[hlthe2b]

34. Wow, Will... You have definitely made an impression! Kudos!

[Bread and Circus]

30. A synopsis of Newberry's paper:

The sociology lesson he provides is nice.
I don't disagree w/ it. Basically he's
reworded a basic sociology concept:

Culture follows economics.
Economics follows geography.

(In this case the problem is we don't
own most of the oil we need)

He ends with an an impass - here's your
solution:

Radically change the energy structure
and you will change the Politics, policy,
and culture of this country.

Don't believe me?

Study Native American history. Study
why some Nations were warlike and others
peaceful, nearly passifist, and you will
find your answer.

[proud patriot]

32. Great to hear

like I said in your other thread Hartman has saved
my sanity living w/ and raising my ADHD son .

I look forward to your article about corporate person hood .
This is an issue I'm very passionate about .

peace out :headbang:

[eleny]

33. Kick

:headbang: