An honest question about Bev....

[senseandsensibility]

I don't have any axe to grind here. I joined DU after most of the infighting with Bev was over, and was oblivious to the rest. I did admire her for sticking her neck out, and admire her fighting spirit. I am exceedingly polite and get along along well with others, but I could have never done what she did to bring this issue forward. The media is in *'s pocket and has been for more than four years. They're not going to cover this AT ALL unless someone gets in their face.

My question, however, is this: I accept that Bev was not good at the PR aspect of this fight. Was there anything wrong with her research? Besides the fact that she couldn't get it onto the corporate media, I mean. Did she claim things that weren't true? Did anyone catch her lying? I think that these are the important questions, although personalities are certainly interesting.

[liberalla]

1. Yes. Excellent questions! Anyone know ???

"Was there anything wrong with her research? Besides the fact that she couldn't get it onto the corporate media, I mean.

Did she claim things that weren't true?

Did anyone catch her lying?"

These are important questions.

[SomthingsGotaGive]

7. yes I know

Why do I know ? I search DU archives.

How did I do that without a Star? Easy. Google site search.

Now nobody has any excuse.

Here are 4 MUST READ LINKS.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1960084#1967764
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1993788&mesg_id=2000755&page=
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2021230
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2021230


"Her" research for her book was top notch.


But her definition of "Her" and you and I's definitions are not the same.

Her definition means anybody and everybody.


She even rattles of in one of those threads that hers is Pulitzer worthy work.

LoL.


So to answer your question YES she has been caught lying. Several times. And OUTRAGEOUSLY.

Her work lately hasn't been posted for peer review and can not be validated.

Any claims that she is now doing research are bogus.

Please see the following unanswered post that lasted less than 10 minutes on bbv.org

BBVFT
Crew
Dec-05-04, 03:58 PM (PST)

2. "Not wasted at all"
In response to message #1

The valuable talent has been misled on purpose.
Her reply above suggests they didn't allow a general discussion forum because they were to busy to moderate it.

This answer is disingenuous at best and deliberately misleading at worst.

Bev you have had 2 years to properly organize the flood of gracious offers to help you with basic tasks, complex programming and legal brief writing.

You have ignored everybody.


It is nothing short of gross negligence that you didn't have a team of volunteers on the ground and around the internet working on your site and pouring through data.


I know why you haven’t let anybody look over your FIOA data.

You don't want someone else to find a smoking gun. PERIOD.

But why you wouldn't put the infrastructure in place to manage the EXPECTED flow of disgruntled voters after Nov 2 is a mystery to me.

It seems the only part of your site that always seems to work is your Donation link.

The only time it Ever goes down is when you have just appeared on a radio show and it gets flooded with donations.

Bev, how many responses have you received from your 3000+ FOIA requests, who have responded, and WHO IS REVIEWING THE MATERIAL?


Your latest "freepers are people too" angle is absurd.


The "freepers", as you yourself have testified in many public forums, have been systematically trying to block ANY attempt at VERIFIED VOTING.

Now that you have uncovered a conspiracy within the Democratic Party to silence you and your Florida investigations do you expect to get "freeper" assistance to bring it out?

Check DU archive by going to http://www.google.com/. Do an advanced site search for the text Bev Harris + freeper + conspiracy and you should see the folly in now claiming to have friends among freepers.

Unless you've had "freeper" friends all along and your attacks on them in the recent past have been a ruse to gain credibility in the only partisan group that cares about this issue enough to actually donate and support the cause with anything other than lip service.

You will probable remove this post shortly and claim that your board is "buggy". You have already removed a few of my questions here and have never answered any of my questions elsewhere.

On this site you are the boss and you can remove and avoid the questions without any real problem.

But unanswered, direct, and reasonable questions on a public forum are received like a reporter getting shouted down at a press conference. You may have avoided answering the question but you left the distinct IMPRESSION that you have something to hide.


So delete away I have already copied this post onto several forums you visit.

BBVFT







Alert | IP Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top


BTW BBVFT = Black Box Voter For Truth

[Pepper32]

14. Self Deleted

x

[IAMREALITY]

15. For The Record SomthingsGotaGive

If someone is going to spend time here, in what to me has become the greatest moderated and designed forum I've ever come across, it would only be respectful to donate at least something to the cause. Then you could have a star and search with pride, rather then cheating away while thumbing your nose at your hosts ya know? Think about donating if you want the perks, just my opinion

[Pepper32]

18. Nevermind, I just saw you were talking to Somethingottagive... lol.....

I need sleep

[SomthingsGotaGive]

23. I asked for 2 DU t-shirts for Christmas last year.

My Girlfriend and I happily wear our matching T's every chance we get.

I chose that route to show my support instead of the $10 bucks to the site.

Not only did I contribute to the site but I spread it's message while doing so.


I asked Skinner for a star but no dice.

The work around was to avoid having to defend against the eventual " I can't search and I guess you knew that when you suggested" bullshit.


I agree with 100% of what you are saying though.

Your post last night made me LOL for a long time.


WE"RE COMING TO FUCKIN GETCHA !!!

[IAMREALITY]

25. LOL No Problem Bro

Sorry bout the post, It hit me afterwards who you were and I was like oh crap, I can't delete it now, Pepper already called me out LOL

[bemis12]

2. The answer is

that nobody really knows. She has not been forthright in sharing any proof that she has, if any.

[RageKage]

3. As with all research, unless publicly verifiable....

"It don't mean nothing at all."

As far as I know, (which aint really that much) the statistical analysis and background reasearch has all been verified, (and was done mostly here at DU, as I've read).

Beyond that, I don't know, its too hard to follow for me.

[kimchi]

4. Well, I can only give my opinion.

Also, FYI, this will probably be locked as mods and admin don't like to discuss people who have been banned, although EarlG did create a thread to explain Bev's leaving so maybe they will be lenient with this one.

The main complaint I saw on that other thread was that Bev wasn't showing any real evidence of fraud. She kept saying there were huge developments but we didn't really see anything that would make it to MSM. I, personally, never saw her lie. I did see her change her mind about Qui Tam suits. I chalk that up to changing as circumstances dictate. Others were way more harsh.

IMHO, others saw Bev as wanting attention or power. Again, I can't judge her because I don't know her. I know that she is determined to fight for our votes to be counted and so I am willing to overlook any personality quirks or disagreements. I don't have to work with her so that isn't hard. Basically she was banned for being a pain in the ass, alerting on others, and threatening litigation. I can certainly understand admins position.

[IAMREALITY]

5. Unfortunately

I'm way too new here and there is no way for me to know or judge. I can just tell personal feelings. I always respected what she is doing and wish there were a million of her doing it, albeit with a little more class. As far as her research goes I have been more than impressed with it, and learned more then I ever knew about the potential of bbv fraud. The only part of her research that disturbs me though (and actually, disturbs me about others too) is that we have this case in Gahanna Ohio that I STILL believe to be the smoking gun, unduplicatable, evoting tabulation error, very well could be an oops by one of the perpetrators, still not explained, EVERYTHING you think you could dream for in this investigation, yet why hasn't she flown straight to Ohio to demand an audit of that machine and its tallies instead digging through dumpsters in Fla? She got great stuff in Volusia, don't get me wrong, but I just don't understand why she, and actually others, haven't gotten right on a plane to audit that Gahanna incident when everything we could be looking for is right there, in that oops.

[senseandsensibility]

8. This is probably a naive question

and I haven't read all your posts, but have any of the journalists covering voting issues investigated this? Do they all know about it?

[IAMREALITY]

12. There's Been Coverage

But I still am baffled at why there hasn't been an immediate audit by outside professionals on just how those 3893 votes were manufactured. I am still convinced that was no glitch, but rather a fraud perpetrator accidentally waving helloooo :hi:

[SomthingsGotaGive]

10. You obviously never watched Scooby Doo.

If you had you would have known that splitting up when chasing the Evil Monster always lead to certain HiJynx.

Besides you need the whole gang present for the grand unmasking at the end.

[IAMREALITY]

11. SelfDelete

[SomthingsGotaGive]

26. OK you're right

I changed the offending typo missed by the checker and has now reads had.

If You still have trouble, imagine the bbv escapades as a scooby do episode. Every time shaggy and scooby went off on their own lead they always got up to no good. Bev is smarter than that. She's not sending one of her three team members up to Ohio to get swallowed up.


Thats all I was saying.

It makes as much sense as any explanation they've given about why they are in Florida and not reviewing the 3000+ fiao request data.

[IAMREALITY]

27. Gotcha

Actually I deleted the other post, cause I think I like ya :)

Personally though I don't think they should've split up. I think all 3 of them should've audited that damn machine. I wish someone would, no one yet can just say how the hell it happened.

[SomthingsGotaGive]

29. Coolio

I tink I think you're not to bad yourself.

:toast:

[AntiFascist]

6. It really is quite simple....

there is the movement that Bev represents and continues to pursue, and then there are the facts that she has uncovered. The most significant of those facts, in my mind, is how easily the Diebold GEMS tabulator Windows-based system can be hacked into using MS Access. You can see a very clear demo of how this is done in the video that can be downloaded from www.votergate.tv This could conceivably explain why there are big discrepencies between exit polls/Democratic registration and the final voting results in states like Ohio and Florida. It can also explain how vote padding could have occured in big states like California and Texas. Of course there are several other systems and many other issues involved in whole BBV controversy, but this single fact alone can explain a lot.

Perhaps Bev Harris should not be the one to lead the broader movement of investigating the fraud and communicating this to the media, but that is a separate issue.

[mary195149]

9. Bev says she is willing on going on Olbermann's show

shouldn't we be giving her the benefit of the doubt?

Anyways, scroll down to see the article.
http://blog.democrats.com/node/1754

[IAMREALITY]

13. What gets me as strange is

Bev and her defenders came here the other day touting how DU is losing so much by losing her, we need her so much, KO needs her, blah blah blah, yet as can be seen by EarlG's post the other day she was banned from DU once and she came crawling back begging to be reinstated and that she'd behave, and now it looks like she is crawling back to KO saying 'Keith, please give me a second chance, I'll be good". Now granted, god bless her, nothin wrong with that, but it is just ironic how it seems to keep turning out that way yet I see so many posts the other day about how Important she is, and WE need her and KO needs her and this just don't mesh with the Reality I have seen.

Gotta say though, I'd still LOVE to see her on Countdown kickin some fraud ass.

[mary195149]

19. When Bev was scheduled on Countdown a few weeks back,

wasn't it Countdown that cancelled the show?? That's how I remember it. I remember thinking Countdown cancelled because they had already stretched themselves further than anyone else on questioning the election and maybe they should take it slower than what would come out of Bev. No??

[SomthingsGotaGive]

21. Sorry No More Benefit Of the Doubt.

Kieth : Bev I want you on my show to show the world your "proof"

Bev" ............

Kieth : Bev???........

Bev : .........

Kieth : Well folks I tried to get Bev on the show but she declined I guess, she never got back to us.

Bev : Fuk you you lying sack of shit I'll fucking sue you for every last dime you useless sportscaster wanna be journalist.

Kieth : Folks after speaking with mis Harris this morning I want to make one thing clear....SHE WILL NEVER APPEAR ON MY SHOW OR ANY SHOW I HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH EVER.

Bev : I'm not sure what all the fuss is about I've always said I'd love to go on Kieth's show.


Paraphrased of course.


BBVT Black Box Voting Truths.

Bev Can prove the Who, What, When, How.

Who = GOP
What = Election fraud
When = Nov 2 2004
How = A murky complex set of theories that invariable end with a central tabulation hack.


Now what Bev does OVER and OVER is ramble off all of the undisputed facts above but then throws in speculation about the important missing component hoping people will confuse it with other facts in her argument.
But she is missing the WHERE.

And she has a bout as much idea or proof of that as you or I do sitting in our homes reading the horoscope.


Thats why this Florida escapade is so infuriating and DECEIVING.

What BBV are in effect saying to US is that the THREE people working on this are as qualified to randomly pick a state and go create a ruckus as we are to pile through complex technical data. And gallivanting for the press and Docudrama cameras is more fun.

[AntiFascist]

22. Yes by all means.....

and I very much appreciate KO's recent blog entry.

But I really find it hard to believe that MSnbc would allow anyone to suggest that MS software may have played a role in rigging an election. If she does appear I'm sure she would be required to skip around this little fact.

[stillcool]

16. I read those links a few....

days ago, and felt like a complete idiot. The problem seems to be language and the all to common mis-information. If you really want to know you have to take the time read the links to ascertain what is relevant and make your decision. There are many posts on the issue of late fueled by anger, resentment and betrayal. The harshness of said posts had me convinced the more 'positive' were accurate. My perceptions were way off. For some reason I keep running head first into the wall of truth, and it hurts. I keep coming back but with a newly gained incredible admiration for the 'old-timers'here, and their collective wisdom. Nasty business this reality stuff.

[senseandsensibility]

20. I tried to wade through the latest

monster thread, but found it very frustrating. So many of the posts seemed to be rooted in ange or resentment, which doesn't always mean that they are invalid, just difficult to judge objectively. Then as the thread grew longer, my slow dial up connection couldn't handle it.

[Lerkfish]

17. completely bypassing personalities, it becomes clear that

several things MUST happen:

this issue is too important to put all eggs in one basket. There should be hundreds of Bevs, if not thousands of them.

any and all proof of fraud should be exposed, not hidden further.

to do otherwise invites further danger of discrediting those fighting for fair elections. If there is only one person, its easy to discredit them and thereby discredit the issue. If they do not display their proof, it becomes easy to discredit it prior to release.

if there are a thousand people working on the issue, its impossible to discredit them all.

[IndyPriest]

24. Amen, Lerkfish

While I understand the fascination(?) of us DUers with Bev, there are a least a score of others now on the case. The Conyers sessions starting Wednesday will show some of that. Bev's work is just one piece of the new machinery in place. Her ultimate evaluation is a ways off. But one thing is already clear: her work is not going to destroy the investigation into BBV.

[alittlelark]

28. Isn't Bev a pr mod ?

IF HER PR IS WPORTHLESS... then ... I gave her far too much $$$$.

Live and learn....

[Moderator]

30. I'm locking this thread

Reason :

Flamebait