Okay, we won the election. The question is why...

[ClassWarrior]

...do some newbies insist without knowing the facts that we lost Ohio??

NGU.

[EMunster]

1. That's the Spirit! n/t

[BeFree]

2. It's TV's fault

TV has yet to come to terms with the deficit of democracy. TV continues to act like nothing funny, or fishy smelling happened on Nov. 2.

TV still thinks everything was hunky-dory, and TV is the most wide spread educational tool around.

Oh, it's not just newbies who still think Ohio is lost, there's plenty of old timers who watch too much TV.

[ClassWarrior]

3. In some cases...

...it's probably too much Free Republique.

NGU.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

5. In Mass., Rhode Island, and Delaware

Bush turned out 21 to 25% MORE VOTERS THAN 2000!!!!
If someone can show me fraud in any of those 3 states I will be more likely to believe fraud occurred elsewhere.

on edit to explain: These are 3 uncontested states where Bush was expected to lose, and I believe they all use voting systems which would be very hard to hack or otherwise inflate vote totals.
More importantly, the 21 to 25% increase in Bush support is consistent with net change in Bush vote across the country, including the popular vote total of 60 million.

So what happened in MA, RI, and DE????

[fasttense]

9. Why?

You cheat to win not cheat to lose.

[merh]

19. Are any of those your states? If so, then why don't you look and

see if you can determine if padding of the votes occurred, like 107% of the registered voters voted in a county, things like that.

[merh]

6. That was to be my reply!

I also can't stand the thread hounding where they warn that some investigation of a document or subject is a "rove alert" or "Ratheresque" and they kindly warn that further inquiry will harm "the cause" (another irritating phrase).

:shrug: I just don't get it - if they were smart, they wouldn't post in the threads and would let them die a natural death. Instead, they challenge and warn, producing more posts and flame wars. What a bunch of goobers!

[Sideways]

7. Easy CW You Know How The FreepNuts Feel About France!

:silly:

[ClassWarrior]

18. You caught that, huh?

:evilgrin:

NGU.

[Marnieworld]

11. What's NGU?

I have really tried to figure it out but I can't. Help.

[Sideways]

13. Never Give Up

CW put it in his sig line Nov 3. We all need to be as brave!

[Marnieworld]

20. Wow! I love that.

I thought it was no good umbrella but of course that doesn't make any sense. ;-)

[RevCheesehead]

22. Actually, it does, if you're in a shit-storm.

:hi:

[seito]

4. ClassWarrior you rock!!!

The reason is...they can't handle the truth.

The truth is coming out and it scares the _____ out of them.

[Straight Shooter]

8. There you go, shaking up some people's little world

But you're rockin' the rest of ours ;)

Why, you ask? I'll tell you why. Because they do not accept that those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it.



(Caption: "Long Live Germany!")

[fasttense]

10. Not all us newbies are lacking in intelligence

Some newbies don't bother to read all the information posted here and just want someone to spoon feed them.

[ClassWarrior]

17. Oh, by no means am I indicting ALL newbies.

And yes, there are a number of folks with high post counts who are playing these defeatist games as well. I certainly didn't mean to stereotype...and welcome to DU, by the way.

:hi:

NGU.

[fasttense]

26. Thanks for the welcome

And I know how irritating it can be when you've researched and studied the evidence and yet people (people who have not read up on all the good information posted here) still insist the vote was fair. I just shake my head and hope they will read some of the evidence.

I remember about three days after the election, I joined DU and there was a post that said: (I paraphrase) "Where is the smoking gun? No one has come forward complaining about their votes. There can't be election fraud." Well, I would like to see their face after they visit this site.

https://voteprotect.org/index.php?display=EIRMapNation

[txindy]

12. Because they think we may listen and change our minds

Which only proves how little they understand.

I just don't read that nonsense. I certainly don't waste my time and energy responding to it.

[SueZhope]

14. what about the oldbies

I noticed that there are also many oldbies who seem to be of the
"Move on..."get over it .....there are all kinds of people with all kinds of conclusions here
many of us newbies came here because of the fraud.

It's a great place to learn
and meet up with like minds.

[tinanator]

25. professionals amongst us

I wouldnt want to overstate the importance of DU, but it is the focus of a great number of radical rightists who surely number amongst them some well placed and overpaid professional "activists" smart enough to evade the DU cutoff, and evil enough to sellout their country. Add to that any number of self starters who probably have certain skills and abilities acquired in the military or commercial fields that utilize perception management and psyops, rest assured this takes place, and many, many longtime high post count participants evince CONSISTENT behaviourisms and tactics in line with this hypothesis.
-the double edge of this logic is the sad possibility of induced paranoia. For this reason it is best to disregard the possibilities and intent of these operatives, disengaging from wheel spinning arguments and time wasters, all the time working towards solidarity, the one thing they fear most.

[ClassWarrior]

35. I agree, tin.

Ignore their threads and let 'em drop. And when we have to answer them, answer with honest Progressive values. There's no way they can respond to that. After all, as George Lakoff says, Progressive values are the BEST of traditional American values.

NGU.

[Kralizec]

15. I know what you mean. Sometimes when I read some of the people

comments who are trying to remove doubt from the election and my only thoughts can be, "These poor souls are proof-positive how potentially intelligent people can so easilhy come to a bogus conclussion based on 'easy access' information." It stinks that we have to look so hard for real news, and even with a bagfull of news-tools, even this American can't claim to be completely informed....

[PATRICK]

16. giving in to the TV mode

of passive inertia that is weakly presented as fact or opinions that appear to be based on assumed reality. The spell of non-observance of truth is very hard to break out of since the recourse and redress of justice just no longer seems to exist when it comes to elections. Yet even the locals who don't "do national news" wax eloquent on the Ukraine without noting our own government(both parties!) heavy handed interference down deep in the whole charade. What tools these mortals be.

They can track down a stolen Sponge Bob Square Pants exhibit and arrest the offenders, but they can't even express outrage at televised fraud and GOP operatives bragging openly about their dirty missions. Can't even dare to think the word in fact or wonder at their own inability to comprehend what happened on Nov. 2 at all.

Now that through mass hypnosis the whole state of Ohio has disappeared except for the slate of bush electors....

will they arrest Mandrake the Magician or Kreskin?

[RevCheesehead]

21. Thanks for the reality check, CW!

Hi, sweetie, good to see ya! :hi:

I saw the defeatest posts yesterday, and totally agree. But one of the most disappointing was from a 1000+, long-time member. I wonder if it was KKKarl.

BTW, can you inform me about what the "Blue Paperclip" is? I seemed to have missed that one.

And N, NGU!

[ClassWarrior]

28. Hey Rev, Sweets...

The blue paperclip is the new/old sign of resistance to fascism. Blue is preferable, signifying blue states, but any old paperclip will do. To learn more, see this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

I hope you're well.

NGU.

[RevCheesehead]

30. Link doesn't work - was it removed? n/t

[ClassWarrior]

31. Nope. It's there.

In fact I just kicked it. So if the link below doesn't work, go to "GD: Politics" and look for "Forget RIBBONS...wear PAPER CLIPS!"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1399359&mesg_id=1399359&page=

NGU.

[Justathought]

23. I am not sure what is meant by this post ....

but as a newbie, I have been reading most of the posts on this issue. I am not convinced we lost Ohio, but I am not convinced anything will be done to correct the fraud that was evident. This is a nation of apathetic voters except for the few who really care about the privilege of voting in an election. I believe it is because most voters do not feel the direct effect of fraud in the voting process. But this is just my opinion and no matter the spin, apathy is the downfall of making sure a fair election was undertaken in this country. Will this ever change? I doubt it will as long as voters lives are not directly effected as a result of a fraudulent voting process.

[FloridaCrat]

27. Those weren't apathetic voters that stood in line for 9 hours

Mostly in working / poorer precincts - that's where the lines were and the voter turnout - percentage wise - was indeed lower. Maybe that's because they stuffed more people into the precinct so that the lines would be longer? Maybe people were afraid to lose their jobs, if they had to spend more time in line.

Do you have a reference for the statement that voters in this election were apathetic? I haven't seen any official numbers of voter turnout broken down between election day, early voting and absentee ballots.

ngu

[ClassWarrior]

29. First of all, WE're doing something to correct the fraud that was evident.

I'm sick 'n' frickin' tired of waiting for Superman to arrive. BE the change you want to see. When the people lead, the leaders follow.

Second, "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." - Margaret Mead

Third, there was RECORD turn-out on election day. Numbers were way up over the past few decades.

And fourth, Never Give Up.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

32. Ukranian can teach us something!...why aren't we doing the same????

[ClassWarrior]

34. In case you hadn't heard...

...there are plenty of groups planning rallies. Sort of like the ones in Columbus this past Saturday. Were you there? If not, why not? Ukraine can teach us something, you know...

There are links to several groups who are organizing protests in this thread - and plenty more similar threads THROUGHOUT DU:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=117215&mesg_id=117215

So how are you planning to protest, ED?

NGU.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

36. i will be in DC on the 12th with my 3 children PROTESTING the FRAUD vote

just as we were in Boston for 4 days of the Convention and NYC for 3 days of marching and protestinf chimpco at the RNC convention...always!


mean people suck

[robbedvoter]

24. Ha! Tha's the thread I kick!

Remember how eversince 2000 they never wrote one line about Gore without adding "who lost to GWB in 2000"? That article is in the same trend. As Bob Boudelag would put it, it's a "so stop saying that" kinda article.

[EMunster]

33. through the posts!!!

[Nordic]

37. because if it's not in the mainstream news, it didn't happen

People are VERY conditioned in this country to resist anything that runs counter to what they've heard in the mainstream media.

I, myself, used to be this way.

It takes a while to break out of this. It's a big, world-shaking shock to realize that the media is complicit in the lies and the bullshit and the propaganda.

People on DU still fall for the mainstream media. I see it every day I'm at DU.

It's very difficult to get away from the programming. It's part of our culture and hard to shed.

[IAMREALITY]

38. Because the One Characteristic That the Human Race Has Most In Common

Is Ignorance...

But ClassWarrior, with the help of your efforts, and many other DU'rs efforts, we WILL get the word out. And Ignorant they shall be no more...

[ClassWarrior]

39. High-five, my friend.

You're doing God's work as well. Thanx for being there.

NGU.