The 1960 Election was probably not stolen.

[goldengreek]

I say this because Republicans like Bob Novak -- a known traitor to the republic -- keep throwing that in our faces. What's worse, I've noticed that a lot of Democrats have internalized that argument, therefore throwing off their moral compasses. So let's set the record straight.

Yes, votes were stolen/manufactured for Democrats in Chicago.

Ditto for Republicans in southern Illinois.

Yes, LBJ probably used stolen/manufactured votes in Texas.

But the Voting Rights Act wasn't passed until 1965. This killed hundreds of thousands of votes for Kennedy. The subversion of this act is one of the main reasons Bush is in office today. It's how he got in in the first place. And it's probably also why exit polls have tended to overcount Democrats relative to how they end up doing in final vote tallies.

Throw in the fact that (usually) Black/Latino constituents are taken out of (Democratic) cities, moved to prisons in (Republican) rural areas, and you have more indirect voter fraud. These people can't vote, and yet their numbers increase the representation of Republican districts by artificially inflating their populations, while artificially deflating the populations of largely Democratic urban areas. I woudn't be surprised if the combined effect weren't a million votes lost to Democrats in every presidential election before a single precinct is opened.

So sure, you can say the election was stolen since there are documented cases of fraud conducted by Democrats. But that was at least counterbalanced by the crap Democrats had/have to put up with.

[mattclearing]

1. We deserve a handicap.

Based on that, Democrats should be spotted a three point head start in all national elections.

[goldengreek]

2. I would just like clean elections.

It's sad when Mexico has a cleaner election process than the United States. But it sure as hell does. By a country mile in fact.

[ahyums]

3. that's a very dangerous game to start playing

No sort of fraud or suppression should be justified at all. None. Everyone who has the slightest vaguest inclination to cast a ballot on election day should be able to, and should be able to do so with the confidence that their vote will be counted. Perceived injustice is no justification for fraud, it provide extra incentive and drive to change the system.

[mattclearing]

5. Hello? It was a joke.

What is this, golf?

:D

[ahyums]

7. sorry

I have seen this kind of thing being advocated seriously though, which is why I didn't spot it.

Edit - and to clarify a bit further, obviously saying the Democrats should be given a handicap was a joke, but I think the overall suggestion (not made by you) that because there is a level of disenfranchisement or suppression fraud somehow becomes relatively acceptable is not.

[iamtechus]

4. Free clue

Kennedy didn't need Illinois in 1960.

Don't spread that republican propaganda in here.

[tritsofme]

6. I read a piece in Slate a while that utterly debunked the 1960 "stolen"

election.

I wish I had it in front of me, it was a great article.