WHY ? WHY ? WHY ? WHY ? WHY ? WHY ? WHY ? WHY ?

[TruthIsAll]

FACT
1.Florida 2000 - thousands disenfranchised (mostly black), butterfly ballots in Palm Beach to fool the old Jews into voting for Buchanan, 175,000 spoiled undervotes and overvotes (most in black precincts), most of which would have gone to Gore. Sixteen thousand Gore votes lost in a Volusia Diebold "glitch" to third party candidates. Why?

FACT
2. Repubs cause Dade County riot to stop the recount.Why?

FACT
3. SCOTUS votes 5-4 to stop the recount. Why?

FACT
4. 2002 Senate- Max Cleland Diebolded in GA, along with others. Why?

FACT
5. Repubs push through HAVA - but make sure to avoid paper audits.Why?

FACT
6. 2004 - Kerry leads big in all exit polls, but he loses. Why?

FACT
7. Thousands of incidents: disenfranchised, touchscreen votes switch to Bush, terror alert lockouts, paucity of voting machines in Dem precincts, spoiled ballots (again). Why?

FACT
8. Professors and researchers statistical analyses points overwhelmingly to fraud, as there is a one-way shift from the exit polls to Bush.Why?

FACT
9. The media immediately blames the exit polls, not the vote counters.Why?

FACT
10. Exit Pollsters won't release the raw data. Why?

FACT
11. Since 1988, Dems vote tallies have consistently trailed the exit polls. Why?

FACT
12. Vast majority of gliches and incidents favor Bush. Why?

FACT
13. Exit polls are used to check for election fraud all over the world. But not here. Why?

FACT
14. I have to post this on DU because the Media won't report it. Why?

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[brainshrub]

5. Exactly! As everyone knows, exit polls are only accurate in Urkraine.

[leftchick]

10. and Yugoslavia...

and Venezuala...

[KansDem]

42. And in the United States where paper ballots are used...

...if I recall correctly.

[flyarm]

44. how about venezuela..

the exit polls are drastically wrong in venezuela where bush has attempted to over throw chevez ..but chevez wins regardless of exit polls...
gee we know the fix was in there but chevez withstood the atrempted overthrow!

[andyhappy]

59. dont forget poland!

[Kurovski]

62. And in the five decades preceding this one.

[rdmccur]

67. In any other country thet're accurate, but not here

And their always overpredicting the democratic vote. Maybe the pollsters are good at biasing their results that way just to lead us astray? Yeah, right!

[AllegroRondo]

6. Exit polls inaccurate?

yet they were used to find election fraud in Ukraine and Columbia.

Germany has relied on them for decades, and within .1% accuracy.

In every election previous to 2000, they have been almost dead on.

These pollsters get paid MILLIONS to be accurate. What has changed that made them wrong?

[Igel]

54. I'd point out the following:

For Ukraine and Venezuela, we're comparing "final" exit polls with "early" exit polls. Until I know they're the same, I'm not committing to the leap of faith necessary for that comparison. (Let the "kill the infidel" posts begin, if they must.)

[robbedvoter]

56. ALL exit polls pointed in the same direction. Except for the one

CNN changed after 1 AM - which would add yet another WHY? to this thoughtful post

[Nederland]

58. Not Accurate

The 8pm exit polls showed Bush winning too.

[tridim]

7. Well I certainly know freeper troll "facts" are inaccurate

Do you have a shred of proof for your theory? Faux News is not proof.

[tngledwebb]

9. What is the most important political issue

for the Dems?

[Karenca]

11. bye-.bye!

:nuke:

[bullimiami]

19. is it at all suspicious that exit polls in the states with

auditable voting machinery were all within the MOE?

[Duncan]

25. Vote tallies above the vote tallies?

Where are you going with this? Hopefully off these boards.

[Alizaryn]

39. Huh??? Good enough when it supports the Bush agenda?

Independent Media TV - Dec 02 7:00 AM
Colin Powell said recently, “We have been following the developments very closely and are deeply disturbed by the extensive and credible reports of fraud in the election.” The Bush Adminstration is also concerned that was a significant disparity between the exit polls and the actual election results.

http://www.independent-media.tv/item.cfm?fmedia_id=9983&fcategory_desc=Under%20Reported

[knowbody0]

3. and just how could anyone certify ohio?

[jhgatiss]

49. Maybe if you're co-chair of Bush's re-selection campaign and its your job

then you could do it.

[Kellis]

4. Excellent post.

Im copying this and forwarding it to my media list.

Thank you.

:kick:

[stellanoir]

8. "because, because , because, because, because,

because, because, because, becaaaauuuusssssse. . .

It's 'cause of the (fraudulant) things (they) do !

we're off to see the wizard. . ."

sorry couldn't resist.

[Kellis]

16. LOL

HAhaha!

Thanks for the laugh.Never let it be said DUers don't have a sense of humor:toast:

[stellanoir]

22. always glad to inspire a smile

especially under these miserable circumstances.

Upon some reflection,

I should have been even more facetious and said

". . . it's 'cause of the wonderful things * does. . ."

As if . . .anyone can swallow a guy with his record of total incompetance and criminality could ever have been reelected legitimately.

Sleep tight America. Someday we'll wake up and smell the fascism.

Sheesh.

[electropop]

26. When Bush* is mentioned,

does anybody else hear that Wicked Witch music?

[stellanoir]

28. either that or . . .

the Darth Vader theme music. . .but actually you may have it right.
The wicked witch music is more randomly frenetic, whereas the foreboding Darth Vader may suit Crashcart (Cheney) more aptly.

Wow funny typo. . .I typed Darth Nader instead of Vader. LOL just fixed. Sorry for derailing as usual TIA, great summary again.

[IAMREALITY]

29. Actually

When I hear the shrub or see the shrub I always hear that circus music. Ya know, do do deedee deedee dit dit do do....

Can't argue with the Darth Vader music for Cheney though...

:)

[SammyWinstonJack]

66. Jaws

:scared:

[Turn CO Blue]

77. I think of Cheney - "I'll get you, my pretty, and your little dog too! nt

[tngledwebb]

12. Excellent summary.

Helps to get the gestalt, the big picture.

[seito]

13. Because God loves *

He gives him at least five miracles per election.

[KurtNYC]

14. FACT Pre-6. Kerry is 4th in Iowa polls but wins Iowa

why?

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KurtNYC]

41. So Howard Dean supporters are trolls to you?

or is this because I said photography was more craft than art (that ticked off some people - you'd be surprised).

:-)

[mod mom]

15. Go to John Conyers website...

and send your questions to the Judiciary Committee's Democratic Leadership forum. We need to get behind their investigation and demand FULL investigation. What the republicans worried about spending too much money? We can spend 40 million+ to invesitigate Clinton. What are they worried about-the TRUTH?

[TruthIsAll]

24. Why don't you email this to him?

tia

[bleever]

33. Done. n/t

[Kurovski]

63. 70 million n/t

70 million was spent on the Clinton investigations.

[tridim]

17. I've been trying to whittle the Ohio fraud down to three simple points..

Here's my attempt so far.

1. Republican voting machine company CEO (and Bush Pioneer) promises to deliver Ohio to Bush at least a year before the election.

2. Republican SOS (and Ohio Bush/Cheney campaign manager) counts the votes in a "locked down" building and lies about the reason it was locked down, citing a terrorist threat. FBI flatly denies it.

3. Ohio is delivered to Bush even though exit polling shows that Kerry won easily.

Duh.. Fraud.

[tngledwebb]

20. Sounds good,

that terror threat 'lock down' was predicted in slightly different form elsewhere on DU. 9/11 archives to be exact.

[mackdaddy]

36. All good points, but Disenfranchising by Machine Distribution -

is the one hard and fast fact that can be pr oven beyond a shadow of a doubt. This was a direct attack on minority voters and drove them away from the polls by the thousands. We have the records of the machine distribution, and the resulting hours and hours long lines in only Dem areas. This is a true in-hand smoking gun.

These other items are definitely "smoke" and we should be looking for the source. But these have to still be considered "theories" right now, and can still be dismissed by the right.

I guess maybe it is hard to boil down at this time.

[LilKim]

43. Disenfranchising by Machine Distribution

Do you have a link on this for Ohio, say, with as complete as possible stats (or at least a reasonable sample), that shows Republican precincts consistantly getting an adequate (or even surplus) of voting machines and Democratic precincts getting too few? Thanks.

And regarding the original message, an MSM link for each point would also be helpful.

[EFerrari]

18. Who owns the outlets?

Sorry if this is a dup, but yesterday I found out that the President of the AP managment group is the Managing ED of the Omaha World-Herald. The OWH also owns ES&S.

Now, who is UPI? And so on.

[tngledwebb]

30. They are complicit, MSM,

some more than others. Read about the Powell doctrine for a start.

[EFerrari]

52. MSM complicity

Mostly likely right.

And it would be useful to map it, rather than just experience it or be victimized by it, no?

[Darknyte7]

21. Another question...

I've been thinking about this of course since election night, but I started posing the question to family during the Thanksgiving Day weekend and have continued doing so when the opportunity presents itself. The question is simply this.

'Where/how did George W. Bush get 10 million more votes then he got four years ago?'

We all know that Rove had been saying since 2000 that in order for the President to win this time around, they needed to meet their goal of getting out the 4 million evangelical voters that didn't turn out four years ago. Let us assume arguendo that they (Bush/Cheney 04) over achieved by 25% and got out another 5 million voters... Where did the other 5 million votes come from?? You can look at Kerry's vote total, and figure out how he got about 6.5 -7 million more votes then did Al Gore, but were does Dubya get 10 million new votes. I have yet to see/hear a reasoned explanation for this...

[plasticsundance]

23. Darknyte7 ... Exactly ... Good Question

Surely the talking heads and political pundits would have some facts behind this ... but nothing ... nada ... even approaching a reasonable and valid explanation.

Concerning exit polls, the only one the media accepts are those supposedly do with the Family Values and Moral Principles. It's the pick and choose news cycle, and the rest is news to make the public more stupid.

Odd isn't it? It all seems to blow in Bush's favor. Or should I say, what are the odds? I'd say the odds are about as good as Bush being an "A" student during his college years, and that's considering he went back to school for a second chance. I'd still place my ball on the "C" and "D" square.

:eyes:

[KaliTracy]

32. dixicrats, Right?

that and moral values throughout the country! brought *huge* numbers of voters out...
at least, that's what we were told.... so it must be true!

:eyes:

[BR_Parkway]

81. Didn't the "dixiecrats" vote Shrub in 2000 too? MSM keeps saying

that they have been registered Dems, but vote Repug for years - everyone knows that!

[tngledwebb]

dupe

[tngledwebb]

35. The big lie works, it's the main tactic of fascists,

emperor's new clothes and all that. And if corporate MSM wasn't corrupt and complicit with the evildoers who've taken over this country, they would be asking the obvious questions 24/7 about this election,the last two, or three, plus Iraq, and especially about 9/11, etc etc.

But they haven't and they won't, until they are outed. That's why we have a long hard fight ahead.

[nolabels]

31. Outside the little bubbles of truth that we at DU and others habitate.....

There is this big ocean of sheep. They go BAhhahahaha and sound kind....well you know

The first few months after I found this place called DU I did lot of checking and study, here and there and everywhere about a few things I found at DU with the links, ideas and stories I came to realize we were all more than screwed in so many ways (but that's beside the point). I don't portend to know any answers about anything but this place has made me aware of how it's comming

The things I never give up on is the truth. It often has strange ways of working things out, but it never lets you down in the end if you keep at it.


Twenty Five Ways to Supress Truth



1. Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil. Regardless of what you know, don't discuss it -- especially if you are a public figure, news anchor, etc. If it's not reported, it didn't happen, and you never have to deal with the issues.

2. Become incredulous and indignant. Avoid discussing key issues and instead focus on side issues which can be used show the topic as being critical of some otherwise sacrosanct group or theme. This is also known as the "How dare you!" gambit.

3. Create rumor mongers. Avoid discussing issues by describing all charges, regardless of venue or evidence, as mere rumors and wild accusations. Other derogatory terms mutually exclusive of truth may work as well. This method works especially well with a silent press, because the only way the public can learn of the facts are through such "arguable rumors". If you can associate the material with the Internet, use this fact to certify it a "wild rumor" which can have no basis in fact.

4. Use a straw man. Find or create a seeming element of your opponent's argument which you can easily knock down to make yourself look good and the opponent to look bad. Either make up an issue you may safely imply exists based on your interpretation of the opponent/opponent arguments/situation, or select the weakest aspect of the weakest charges. Amplify their significance and destroy them in a way which appears to debunk all the charges, real and fabricated alike, while actually avoiding discussion of the real issues.

5. Sidetrack opponents with name calling and ridicule. This is also known as the primary attack the messenger ploy, though other methods qualify as variants of that approach. Associate opponents with unpopular titles such as "kooks", "right-wing", "liberal", "left-wing", "terrorists", "conspiracy buffs", "radicals", "militia", "racists", "religious fanatics", "sexual deviates", and so forth. This makes others shrink from support out of fear of gaining the same label, and you avoid dealing with issues.

6. Hit and Run. In any public forum, make a brief attack of your opponent or the opponent position and then scamper off before an answer can be fielded, or simply ignore any answer. This works extremely well in Internet and letters-to-the-editor environments where a steady stream of new identities can be called upon without having to explain criticism reasoning -- simply make an accusation or other attack, never discussing issues, and never answering any subsequent response, for that would dignify the opponent's viewpoint.

7. Question motives. Twist or amplify any fact which could so taken to imply that the opponent operates out of a hidden personal agenda or other bias. This avoids discussing issues and forces the accuser on the defensive.

8. Invoke authority. Claim for yourself or associate yourself with authority and present your argument with enough "jargon" and "minutiae" to illustrate you are "one who knows", and simply say it isn't so without discussing issues or demonstrating concretely why or citing sources.

9. Play Dumb. No matter what evidence or logical argument is offered, avoid discussing issues with denial they have any credibility, make any sense, provide any proof, contain or make a point, have logic, or support a conclusion. Mix well for maximum effect.

10. Associate opponent charges with old news. A derivative of the straw man usually, in any large-scale matter of high visibility, someone will make charges early on which can be or were already easily dealt with. Where it can be foreseen, have your own side raise a straw man issue and have it dealt with early on as part of the initial contingency plans. Subsequent charges, regardless of validity or new ground uncovered, can usually them be associated with the original charge and dismissed as simply being a rehash without need to address current issues -- so much the better where the opponent is or was involved with the original source.

11. Establish and rely upon fall-back positions. Using a minor matter or element of the facts, take the "high road" and "confess" with candor that some innocent mistake, in hindsight, was made -- but that opponents have seized on the opportunity to blow it all out of proportion and imply greater criminalities which, "just isn't so." Others can reinforce this on your behalf, later. Done properly, this can garner sympathy and respect for "coming clean" and "owning up" to your mistakes without addressing more serious issues.

12. Enigmas have no solution. Drawing upon the overall umbrella of events surrounding the crime and the multitude of players and events, paint the entire affair as too complex to solve. This causes those otherwise following the matter to begin to loose interest more quickly without having to address the actual issues.

13. Alice in Wonderland Logic. Avoid discussion of the issues by reasoning backwards with an apparent deductive logic in a way that forbears any actual material fact.

14. Demand complete solutions. Avoid the issues by requiring opponents to solve the crime at hand completely, a ploy which works best for items qualifying for rule 10.

15. Fit the facts to alternate conclusions. This requires creative thinking unless the crime was planned with contingency conclusions in place.

16. Vanishing evidence and witnesses. If it does not exist, it is not fact, and you won't have to address the issue.

17. Change the subject. Usually in connection with one of the other ploys listed here, find a way to side-track the discussion with abrasive or controversial comments in hopes of turning attention to a new, more manageable topic. This works especially well with companions who can "argue" with you over the new topic and polarize the discussion arena in order to avoid discussing more key issues.

18. Emotionalize, Antagonize, and Goad Opponents. If you can't do anything else, chide and taunt your opponents and draw them into emotional responses which will tend to make them look foolish and overly motivated, and generally render their material somewhat less coherent. Not only will you avoid discussing the issues in the first instance, but even if their emotional response addresses the issue, you can further avoid the issues by then focusing on how "sensitive they are to criticism".

19. Ignore proof presented, demand impossible proofs. This is perhaps a variant of the "play dumb" rule. Regardless of what material may be presented by an opponent in public forums, claim the material irrelevant and demand proof that is impossible for the opponent to come by (it may exist, but not be at his disposal, or it may be something which is known to be safely destroyed or withheld, such as a murder weapon). In order to completely avoid discussing issues may require you to categorically deny and be critical of media or books as valid sources, deny that witnesses are acceptable, or even deny that statements made by government or other authorities have any meaning or relevance.

20. False evidence. Whenever possible, introduce new facts or clues designed and manufactured to conflict with opponent presentations as useful tools to neutralize sensitive issues or impede resolution. This works best when the crime was designed with contingencies for the purpose, and the facts cannot be easily separated from the fabrications.

21. Call a Grand Jury, Special Prosecutor, or other empowered investigative body. Subvert the (process) to your benefit and effectively neutralize all sensitive issues without open discussion. Once convened, the evidence and testimony are required to be secret when properly handled. For instance, if you own the prosecuting attorney, it can insure a Grand Jury hears no useful evidence and that the evidence is sealed and unavailable to subsequent investigators. Once a favorable verdict (usually, this technique is applied to find the guilty innocent, but it can also be used to obtain charges when seeking to frame a victim) is achieved, the matter can be considered officially closed.

22. Manufacture a new truth. Create your own expert(s), group(s), author(s), leader(s) or influence existing ones willing to forge new ground via scientific, investigative, or social research or testimony which concludes favorably. In this way, if you must actually address issues, you can do so authoritatively.

23. Create bigger distractions. If the above does not seem to be working to distract from sensitive issues, or to prevent unwanted media coverage of unstoppable events such as trials, create bigger news stories (or treat them as such) to distract the multitudes.

24. Silence critics. If the above methods do not prevail, consider removing opponents from circulation by some definitive solution so that the need to address issues is removed entirely. This can be by their death, arrest and detention, blackmail or destruction of their character by release of blackmail information, or merely by proper intimidation with blackmail or other threats.

25. Vanish. If you are a key holder of secrets or otherwise overly illuminated and you think the heat is getting too hot, to avoid the issues, vacate the kitchen.


Came Across this while surfing, sounds like our media doesn't it?
(snip)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1284516

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nolabels]

45. I have not been around here for a couple days, your correct...........

they are quite thick here as of late. They seem to tire easy though. Mostly they to bare themselves when they ignore pertinent facts and questions, sort of like one or more of the points up there.

PROPAGANDA TECHNIQUES

"Propaganda Techniques" is based upon "Appendix I: PSYOP Techniques" from "Psychological Operations Field Manual No.33-1" published by Headquarters; Department of the Army, in Washington DC, on 31 August 1979
(snip)
http://www.mapinc.org/propaganda/propaganda/proptech.htm

On edit, also hate having to read my own typos, syntaz errors, etc, but I will go most any distance to find out the truth :dunce:

[nolabels]

61. Moderators please delete my posts also

baaaaaahhhhawwsaaaawwwaa

(I am attacking myself, my posts stink :crazy:)

[Alizaryn]

34. Nice compilation

[Protect The Vote]

40. TIA, I agree with all your facts, but...

I think fact 10 is the most curious one.

As a professional pollster, why wouldn't you take every opportunity to discuss your work? I would be especially eager to discuss it if people were drawing wrong conclusions from it. Let's take the *hypothetical* case that the exit poll data were "correct" but that there was an incorrect weighting involved that got leaked to the internet on Nov. 2. Let's also assume that some people were misinterpreting the data to mean that Kerry "won" the exit poll. If that were the case, as a professional pollster I would release the raw data and educate everybody on the correct interpretation of the poll. I would also use the opportunity to get as much exposure for my profession and company as I could.

I just don't understand this one. Something's very fishy here.

[KoKo]

50. Excellent post TIA....And, there isn't any answer except the obvious

conclusion. "They" just want to obfuscate anyone asking those Ten Simple questions...

[garybeck]

46. because

our country has been taken over by theives in an almost bloodless coup.

those who raise the flag upside down are correct.

[ClarkUSA]

47. Send To [e-mail]

He is the only one in the media talking about it, but we have to feed him and express appreciation instead of taking him for granted.

[TruthIsAll]

48. I have sent him stuff already. Why don't you send him this?

tia

[EFerrari]

51. Olbermann's mailbox

I started sending him stuff on Nov 3. He's probably sick of me. Whose turn is it <g>?

[Kellis]

53. HA~lol

The media are probably SICK of me too!!
Iv already sent this one out to Olberman along with MANY many others :thumbsup:

[Nordic]

55. because you're just one of those "angry Democrats"!

who won't get with the program!

Don't you listen to the media? This country is RED, damnit, RED and FUNDAMENTALIST CHRISTIAN!

Even though Zogby proved otherwise, we're shoving it down your throat that Americans are concerned with MORAL VALUES like baby-killin' and butt-sex!

[Psyop Samurai]

57. Um..., because they hate our freedom?

Excellent, TIA. Perhaps a "Coincidence Theorist's Guide to US Elections" is in order. Minstrel Boy, are you there? :)

[TruthIsAll]

64. Send it to Conyers

tia

[ewulf]

65. They do don't they (n/t)

[malatesta1137]

60. don't forget

FACT
15. Clinton in 2000, Gore in 2000, Kerry in 2004 remained silent. Why? Are they true leaders or just part of the fraud effort.

[TruthIsAll]

68. Gore fought for a full recount, then realized no one at the DNC

would fight with him.

Clinton has been a real disappointment. He spoke out very mildly against the 2000 fraud. He has said nothing about 2004. Then again, who has?

Kerry, it appears, is getting all his ducks in a row.

But if the Dems don't fight this seriously then they no longer deserve our vote. In fact, are vote will no longer means anything, anyway.

[malatesta1137]

72. Gore only asked for a full recount

when it was too late. He asked for a partial recount first, a stupid move. He didn't fight hard enough.

Clinton is the weirdest, after all the farse Repugs put him through, he simply did freaking nothing.

But Kerry!!!!!! The warrior, the hero, what the hell is wrong with this Democrats??????????????

[JohnnyCougar]

69. Fascism is why. n/t

[pauldp]

75. It's not Fascism, it's "Compassionate Fascism"

They're kinder & gentler Fascists.

[snot]

70. Love this--kick!

Useful for ltrs to media, etc.

[Kellis]

73. Kick

:kick:

[rumpel]

71. Official Preliminary Report of OSCE

The Mission was deployed by the OSCE Office for Democratic Institutions and Human Rights (ODIHR) and the OSCE Parliamentary Assembly. It published its preliminary findings today, based on the work of 92 observers from 34 countries, including 56 parliamentarians.

in pdf 11 pages

http://www.osce.org/news/show_news.php?id=4505

[pauldp]

74. Fact 5B: - HR 2239 Killed by Repugs

This was the legislation introduced by Rush Holt to implement the paper trail. Hastert and Delay refused to allow it out of committee.
I don't think a big enough deal has been made of this. I've read the transcript of it, and Holt and others make an impassioned case for a paper trail on the floor of the House. The fact that it was intentionally stalled, considering it had bi-partisan support, is very powerful evidence of malicious intent on the part of the Rethug leadership and the president.

[TruthIsAll]

76. TODAY WAS JUST A START. THE END OF THE BEGINNING.

TIA

[TruthIsAll]

78. Only a few of these questions were asked at the hearing. Why?

Why did Conyers have to rush the witnesses from the get-go? It should have gone on as long as possible to give them a chance to speak without time pressure.

A lousy three hours with American democracy at stake.
It's worth a lot more than that.

[oddtext]

79. Fact: Mel Carnahan and Paul Wellstone

lead in their respective senate races in the final weeks of their campaigns, then die in tragic plane crashes.

seems to me that Diebold may not be the only way to "fix" an election.

[TruthIsAll]

80. FACT 15: Gore won. Kerry won. Bush Selected and Re-Selected

.