Mathematicians: Anyone know the significance of this? (Important)

[Carolab]

SCV Computer
Developments in Shannon Sampling Theory

Shannon sampling is a special case of the general problem of reconstructing a function from its values at a discrete set of points. This is often the essential underlying problem for machine learning, data mining, etc.

Prof. Stephen Smale, Field Medal Winner, Mathematical Nobel Prize, of UC Berkeley and Toyota Technological Institute at Chicago, will discuss this topic at the January 29 meeting of the Santa Clara Valley Computer society. His talk will deal with age-old algorithms for solving this problem and new estimates of their accuracy and efficiency.

Stephen Smale, a partner in Piotr Blass's company, ZeoSync, was lecturing early this year on this subject.

Anyone understand the significance of this?

BTW, Dr. Smale is at UC Berkeley and is a member of NCSA and IEEE.
He got his PhD from the University of Michigan, same as Piotr Blass.

[Hamoth]

1. Heh. Have you written him yet?

Certainly this would be usefull. How advanced are the methods? Could we not only determine potential fraud, but the acutal mechanisms of it?

[Carolab]

2. I just found this and haven't done anything with it.

I don't know whether it's significant or not.

Dr. Smale is a very famous mathematician.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyquist-Shannon_sampling_theorem

It's a connecting link between analogue transmission and the world of digital computers and has something to do with "filtering noise" in transmissions.

[DoYouEverWonder]

3. The statistics from this election are too consistant

From looking at the numbers, there was definitely manipulation of the results at a couple of different levels. The last tweak was on election night, when the numbers still weren't come out right, and the freepers freeped the election.

[Zerex71]

6. I know a bit about this.

If my guess is correct, they are referring to the work of Claude Shannon, an important figure in telecommunications. I don't remember exactly the implications of Shannon's work, but one thing that was very closely related to what he was doing was Nyquist sampling, which is probably what they are referring to. Basically, what it comes down to is the ability of a sampling and quantizing function to operate on a natural (analog signal), and the ability to faithfully reconstruct a natural signal without the ability to have all the original (i.e. mathematically infinite) points at your disposal.

In plainer language, it's how you're able to listen to a digital copy of a song and have it be so accurate that you can't possibly tell the difference between it and the original, yet there is not an infinite amount of data in the song. This is because the Nyquist sampling theorem states that all you need is a sampling rate of at least twice the expected bandwidth of the original signal, and explains exactly why the standard CD sampling rate if 44.1 kHz, which more than covers twice the bandwidth of the audible range of 20 Hz - 20 kHz.

As for it's applications for polling, one could extrapolate that the real results of an election could be reconstructed if you had enough *accurate* samples. However, this does not explain why polls are supposedly reliable over a sample population of ~300 million if you only ask 1,004 adults -- that's a different theorem entirely.

Mike

[turbo_satan]

4. Mathematician reporting for duty...

Sorry -- you're barking up the wrong tree.

This has nothing to do with the process of drawing inferences about the distribution of a population based on measurements taken from a subset of that population (i.e., statistical sampling). Rather, it is concerned with reconstructing an analog (e.g., continuous in time) signal from a discrete (but possibly infinite) set of samples. An example would be the process of creating the analog music signal you listen to from a set of digital samples stored on a CD.

[Carolab]

5. I wasn't thinking of it re: polling

I was thinking of it re: transmission. Particularly data transmission over phone lines to computers. Read the above description from Wikipedia.

ZeoSync was making claims about 0 data compression which created quite a buzz in the computing world but then it was disputed far and wide. And ZeoSync was being run by a couple of apparent conmen, St. George and H. Hamby Hutcheson, but had Dr. Blass and Dr. Smale on board, a couple of math phenoms both from the University of Michigan.

IOW, think "hacking" in regards to this. Remember, the fear is/was that the data could be changed remotely over phone lines, or over wireless nets.

[turbo_satan]

7. Still not applicable

Shannon's work on channel capacity is far more "foundational" and not terribly constructive in this regard. In other words, it proves an upper limit on the rate at which data can be shoved through a channel as a function of the channel's bandwidth and the amount of noise in the channel.

If there was fraud, it didn't happen by "zapping" the communications channels in order to flip votes or change the transmitted numbers. Due to the vagaries of data communications, this would be nearly impossible to do. It's almost infinitely more probable that if numerical fraud occurred, it happened at the algorithmic level.

[Carolab]

8. Okay, then

Are you familiar with the fact that ZeoSync was touting (and this is what Blass said, too) an amazing discovery in algorithms? If you type into the search engine ZeoSync you will find information about it, and also there is some info on Fisher's site that Blass provided about it. I've posted it below.

[Carolab]

9. Here is what Dr. Blass provided:

Fisher has a link from November 27 that says Palast has opened up an investigation into Cybernet, but the link is broken:

http://www.jefffisherforcongress.com/Campaign2006/Elect...

There is also this on his site, the link to which works but I am pasting it here in its entirety in case the link gets broken:

The following information comes from a research team which has linked together the missing dots in this criminal act and they want everyone to share the data from this investigation with the entire planet.

Below is some very important evidence everyone needs to take a look at.

'You might want to get out the calculator...

"Dr. Piotr Blass, chief technology advisor at ZeoSync, said "Our recent accomplishment is so significant that highly randomized information sequences, which were once considered non-reducible by the scientific community, are now massively reducible using advanced single-bit-variance encoding and supporting technologies."

"The technologies that are being developed at ZeoSync are anticipated to ultimately provide a means to perform multi-pass data encoding and compression on practically random data sets with applicability to nearly every industry," said Jim Slemp, president of Radical Systems, Inc.

"The evaluation of the complex algorithms is currently being performed with small practically random data sets due to the analysis times on standard computers. Based on our internally validated test results of these components, we have demonstrated a single-point-variance when encoding random data into a smaller data set. The ability to encode single-point-variance data is expected to yield multi-pass capable systems after temporal issues are addressed."

http://www.amrad.org/pipermail/lf/2002q1.txt

Doctor, are you certain that such multi-pass capable systems aren't already in use?

http://216.239.57.104/search?q=cache:VF37oWXvqEAJ:www.o...
http://news.com.com/2100-1023-839851.html

http://www.duxcw.com/newsold/2002/jan.htm

It appears that they were in use in several florida based locations and oddly enough it was compounded into multiple operating systems...Including Oracle including Windows NT, so lets see then...

Lucent technologies adapts the program followed by CyberNET and its legacy based software department CyberNET systems, which is even on their company page. It appears as though ZeoSync largely based in Florida was involved in this whole deal to develop the software...

http://216.239.57.104/search?q=cache:6Qg-OtoBmWEJ:www.c...

The software is nothing but a code, a shell code easily applied into any legacy database which is what Cyber has always specialized in. The same companies trading stock with the machine voting vendors.....What did I discover about your interesting code Dr. Blass?

Reverse integer integrations appear across the board, depending on the bit size. Having personally heard on the radio today, from Ohio state talking about the new smoking evidence of election fraud they found....I did a little back ground check.

Guess what happened to the tabulators the lawyers found which lost all the Kerry votes? They ended up counting backwards....They ended up reversing integers, which based on the studies of Dr. Blass, this entire program was sold and patented to rig elections....Think about it, unparalleled control of elections due to database source code, which could be found in normal voting machines and their programmers all the way down to small end company network systems. All with one purpose in mind: Control the numbers.....Doctor you are a master mathematic genius are you not? What purpose would a math-integer compression program serve inside the wrong hands? Can you imagine being able to hack one machine, install this code, and have virtual control over all of the votes in an entire state in literally minutes.....Have control over all the social security numbers in Accenture's database in less than 10 seconds....Have control over the world financial records and their bank totals, using Diebold ATM's in under 20 seconds....Can you actually imagine the impact such a profoundly evil program could have, besides the basis of good it can do?

Nothing but the facts, I'm sending it in.'

http://www.jefffisherforcongress.com/Campaign2006/Elect...

[skids]

11. This here post from Jeff's site is bullshit

It's a dead end. It was conned off on Jeff by the "Activists" people, and while it may contain some truth you're best off chucking it -- there's too many illogical connections here to do anything constructive with.

Someone needs to get Jeff's ear and have him take this thing off his site.

(Oh, and in case you didn't know, all indications I've seen say that ZeoSync is a fraud, that their compression algorithm is snake oil, and that they were just bilking the investors. From what I know of compression, their stuff sounds like bullcrap to me as well.)

[Carolab]

14. I know that ZeoSync is a fraud--see the "Texas Connection" thread

But the research into algorithms has not been debunked as far as I know. There was a lot of press around this particular discovery and a lot of people disputed it, I am aware, but I don't think that makes it completely irrelevant to this discussion.

[turbo_satan]

18. Again, nothing terribly relevant in there...

Fisher has seized upon language that looks familiar to the layperson but actually has a specific meaning in the parlance -- one that's not very damning in this particular instance -- and blown it WAY out of proportion with flights of linguistic and logical fancy. Please don't waste your time with this; there are far more sensible places to look for fraud.

[Carolab]

10. And something else to consider

You talked about reconstructing the continuous line without knowing the discrete points--wouldn't that be significant if you were trying to make it appear as though transmissions were continuous even if they were interrupted? Remember the evidence BBV is looking for--interruptions in the transmissions evidenced in the audit logs--i.e., gaps would indicate that some kind of hacking via dialing into the modem to change data took place.

[skids]

13. There's no question Zeosync had real mathemeticians

They just may have been dishonest ones.

If they are connected at all to this, they may have supplied macro-analysis to help direct a coordinated vote-stealing operation to make things less obvious. But at the same time, I wonder whether this whole thing was more a case of a bunch of zeolots who all knew implicitly that they were expected to cheat in their own local areas, with little or no central coordination.

I'm not trying to discourage looking into Blass. Just concentrate on the P.I. type stuff -- family relations, coworkers, etc. Trying to tie stuff together based on the math in Zeosync P.R. materials will get you nowhere but confused.

my 2c.

(Oh and who else thinks Blass's hair is awful?)

[turbo_satan]

19. No.

To quote you:

"You talked about reconstructing the continuous line without knowing the discrete points.."

Actually, it was *with* knowing the discrete points. And again, the answer is no... does not apply. Incommensurate ideas. Continuous in a mathematical sense has a very different meaning from "sporadic in a temporal sense," which is what you're trying to connect with.

[Joe Chi Minh]

43. Surely, "continuous"

would signify the antithesis of sporadic in both fields?

[mrfrapp]

16. Snake Oil

Zeosync's claims sounded suspiciously like snake oil. In a nutshell, they were claiming that they had broken Shannon's channel capacity limit. ie. that their algorithm could compress all inputs or random inputs. Both provably false.

Either way, this is completely orthogonal to the vote fraud issue.

[stirringstill]

27. Snake oil = Shell?

If it is snakeoil then perhaps this a shell or a cover company for other activities.

[electropop]

44. Not zapping, but tapping

In other words, yes it would simply be seen as a bad connection if you injected some noise signal or something as the data is transmitted. But in many cases the connections from voting machines to tabulators was insecure. Some were done of standard telephone lines, leaving the possibility of simply dialing in and mimicking the data stream of a tabulator, or hacking into the OS or code (it is believed that the code contains "back doors" for just such purposes). Some connections may have been over the internet(s), in which case the Windows operating system used in all the election equipment is one gigantic back door, easily hacked by every middle school script kiddie.

[stirringstill]

12. Blass is an interesting character

I'm not in a position to know the significance of Smale's work, but despite the messenger (Fisher), I still find it interesting that Blass claimed to be linked to an effort to manipulate the election. I mentioned this in a previous post and I'm just speculating here but it seems that his background in Math and in particular the types of projects listed on his CV oddly seem suited to the task.

(Again, this is just hand waving) If one wanted to tweak an election on a grand scale electronically, various methods of manipulation would require some ability to identify precincts to target and may require predicting the number of votes to tweak to yield the desired outcome--perhaps even in the context of an actual vote count.

__________________note these snips

1998 Database Project Director, Bank Rate Monitor, Inc.
Designed an industry wide database to describe the entire financial industry in the U.S. including BRM Publications, Financial Institutions, and Financial Products.

1998 Senior Developer, AIE, Inc.
Developed a system applicable to lotteries and options trading.

1993 Senior Analyst, Noble Investments, Inc.
Asset Allocation software, trend prediction software.

__________________________
Probably nothing, but Curtis worked at FLA DOT didn't he?


2000- Chief Scientist, Grasshopper Central Inc.
Distance learning universal patented software. Web enabled courses and universities. <b> National Traffic Safety Institute</b> course for all fifty states. SQL Server 2000, ASP, Cold Fusion, E Commerce, XML.Data Warehousing and Data Mining. Assured a long-term multimillion-dollar contract for the company with NTSI. Coded data driven Search Engine software. Responsible for a team of developers, academic consultants, visual artists and business leaders working on creating, testing and implementing the proprietary educational software. Developed a new proprietary web highlighter using MFC. Implemented web enabled asset allocation and options trading software. Designed a proprietary inventory control system. (bold emphasis mine)

Zeosync also seems interesting.

___________________



__________________________

[Carolab]

15. Yes, Curtis did work at DOT

and one of ZeoSync's principles (a flim-flam man) named H. Hamby Hutcheson was working on "deals" with the Transportation Department, primarily in the areas of providing them with retinal ID (smart cards) and facial recognition technologies--relevant to Homeland Security if I'm not mistaken.

Also the guy who was doing the research who wound up dead (can't remember his name) had a wife who was working at NASA, I believe. And Cybernet Systems Inc. is "connected" to NASA/DOD through Veridian/General Dynamics/Carlyle Group. Also, two of the reps in the West Palm Beach area, Sherwood Boehlert and John Marburger, are both on board with NCSA (National Supercomputer Association), as is Cybernet and as is Dr. Smale.

[Razorback_Democrat]

17. Veridian is a Texas based group

with ties to the Bushies if I'm not mistaken

[mccoyn]

21. Not unlikely.

"connected" to NASA/DOD through Veridian/General Dynamics/Carlyle Group"

These are big groups that are highly connected. Finding only two degrees of separation between companies is like finding six degrees of separation between me and Kevin Bacon.

[newyawker99]

25. Hi mccoyn!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[mccoyn]

26. Thanks.

I've been lurking since shortly after the election, but only posting in the last few days.

[buzzard]

37. Which would mean little connection ??

[papau]

20. Sounds like VoIP useful - but how would it be of interest to vote fraud?

I am at a loss on this one -

or the brain is too old -

but I honestly can't think of an application of this to vote fraud.

[trudyco]

22. Out there but,...

COuld this be related to the powere outages all over the place? I mean why would the voting machines keep causing power outages? What if this compression could be sent through power lines? So maybe you don't need a modem and maybe there would not be a record????


I don't really understand the mathematics but the way you described the compresion scheme made me think of it.

Hey, if we've got General Dynamics and Accenture and Lockheedmartin and NASA why not pull Enron back in LOL.

FWIW,
trudyco

[Eloriel]

23. I think ya'll are looking in the wrong places

No offense, but this kind of inquiry -- and indeed Madsen's whole line of inquiry as well IMO even with the signed affidavit -- seems to be following an unlikely and most of all a totally unnecessary direction away from where the action is.

Please remember that in the case of Diebold, whose code HAS been examined and by more people than just Avi Rubin's team including former DUer Roxanne Jekot (DEMActivist), plenty of backdoors were found giving insiders at Diebold access for tampering in numerous ways. In fact, as she described some of it to me, it sounded like it was a game to them to see how many different ways they could provide themselves virtually or absolutely undetected access. (In at least one case the bit of code involved was self-deleting, leaving NO trace.)

Perhaps ya'll should read this, if you haven't:

Hack the Vote by Chuck Herrin (a Republican)
http://www.chuckherrin.com/hackthevote.htm

We even know the names of at least some of the programmers involved because their work was clearly marked. Further, we also know that there are 5 different Diebold employees who are ex-cons -- Herrin has a very nice explanation of this in his Hack the Vote FAQ http://www.chuckherrin.com/hackthevoteFAQ.htm :

Check this out - No less than 5 people (Cooper, Lee, Graye, Elder, and Dean - http://www.blackboxvoting.org/bbv_chapter-8.pdf ) involved with the management and development of Diebold's systems are convicted felons, including Senior Vice President Jeff Dean, and topping the list are his twenty-three counts of felony Theft in the First Degree. According to the findings of fact in case no. 89-1-04034-1 (Washington State, King County District Court):

“Defendant’s thefts occurred over a 2 1/2 year period of time, there were multiple incidents, more than the standard range can account for, the actual monetary loss was substantially greater than typical for the offense, the crimes and their cover-up involved a high degree of sophistication and planning in the use and alteration of records in the computerized accounting system that defendant maintained for the victim, and the defendant used his position of trust and fiduciary responsibility as a computer systems and accounting consultant for the victim to facilitate the commission of the offenses."

To sum up, he was convicted of 23 felony counts of theft from by - get this - planting back doors in his software and using a "high degree of sophistication" to evade detection. The reason for the embezzlement? He needed the money because "he was embezzling in order to pay blackmail over a fight he was involved in, in which a person died."

-- more --

Now, I realize that if you're pursuing Ohio issues, Diebold machines were not the issue. IMO that doesn't really change my argument. Take a look, if you haven't, at the ownership of the vendors of these various voting machine systems: http://www.ecotalk.org/VotingMachineCompanies.htm

This is the work of Lynn Landes who has been on the issue of computerized voting for a long time. Poke around at her site, she's got some terrific information there.

I really just worry that this whole Madsen thing is a huge distraction. The best Curtis has is an affidavit saying some people (incl Feeney) were interested in manipulating the vote, nothing that says anyone did it. The most important thing is that it seems to me IT WAS LARGELY UNNECESSARY to do what Madsen alleges was done.

Now, I'm not saying that it didn't happen -- I don't know. But I worry that it's a distraction -- even if it DID happen as Madsen alleges. It's the kind of thing, IMO and from observation over these 4 years of how Bush-related "scandals," that too easily gets shrugged off, as so many others have gotten shrugged off again and again so nothing happens. One way the shrugging off happens is to isolate the issue and/or boil it down to a detail that is found to be false (Think: Dan Rather and James Hatfield's Fortunate Son), or is deemed inconsequential especially as some larger national or international issue arises to capture media atttention.

It's also, as I've already pointed out, largely unnecessary AND logistically improbable. If it happened, it happened in a much smaller number of areas than the much larger, more pervasive and IMO larger problem -- the insider hacking.

I'm not suggesting that people not follow this line of inquiry -- I just worry about it being pursued to the detriment of the larger problem that COULD go unaddressed if the focus goes entirely or even primarily on what Madsen is alleging.

[trudyco]

24. I think you are missing a couple of things

One is that the systems are moving towards evoting so this is going to get worse. Also, as many of the bbv were paperless it is impossible to catch on a hand recount. Finally, if they are able to do this from a central place then there are just a handful of players that need to know - much harder to catch and much scarier.

The big thing I was wondering is if they had found a way to hide it. Yes, you mentioned how the actual code would be hidden or self-destoyed but on systems that were supposed to be stand alone there would be telltale signs of potential hacking/intruding.

Also, these ties between players and groups is really eye opening. It will be important in the future to clean up not only this illegal presidency but also many of the congressmen, senators, local officials, media and military-industrial complex.

trudyco

[Carolab]

28. Fine, Eloriel, but this information relates to the FISHER story

not to Madsen's. I am trying to figure out the mathematics behind the ZeoSync thing and Cybernet Systems, which were TWO KEY FACTORS in Fisher's story, remember? Stephen Smale is a MAJOR MATHEMATICAL GENIUS as is Piotr Blass and they both went to and worked at the University of Michigan, which is where Cybernet Systems Inc. is based. Also, Blass mentioned an Alan Gutierrez who worked at Cybernet in Ann Arbor, University of Michigan, and that pans out. There is a lot to the Fisher story, in fact, that makes a GREAT DEAL of sense. So I am trying to find out more about the ZEOSYNC connection because that is where Blass and Smale were BOTH working together, along with the two principals who were both CON MEN, Peter St. George (West Palm Beach, but just moved to Chapel Hill, NC) and H. Hamby Hutcheson who was working for the company with deals for the Transportation Department and then suddenly quit the company. The company was founded in West Palm Beach, which is where Blass is and also the Bay Point Middle School. The Bay Point Middle School is where Neil Bush put out his FIRST PILOT program for his Ignite Software which he then put into SCHOOLS all the BATTLEGROUND states, with a huge number of them put in "FREE" which I find VERY SUSPICIOUS. HOW MANY SCHOOLS WERE USED AS POLLING PLACES? How many of them had Ignite software in them? It would be interesting to find out where the Ignite software was placed, wouldn't it? I think that the Ignite software was a program that was used to hide the real programs running in Linux/Red Hat in the background. Also, Alan Gutierrez was working with Cybernet Systems on some Linux/Red Hat projects that he was blogging about and was very EXCITED about but now you cannot read those blog entries/diaries. The links have been broken to his documentation. Also, Cybernet Systems principals are members of the National Supercomputer Association, as are both Drs. Smale and Blass. In addition, at ZeoSync Dr. Smale and Dr. Blass were both working on some very complex data compression/transmission networking schemes and I think there is SOMETHING THERE, some scheme whereby they could set up a network hacking scheme using (analogue)phone lines to dial into (digital) PCs and change the votes from REMOTE locations. I would not disparage this as "Madsen's story" without first looking at WHAT IT IS. It is FISHER'S story and that is what I have been pursuing.

[Carolab]

38. I need to clarify something from the post above

Ignite was installed in schools not necessarily just in battleground states, but rather in states where Madsen claims "padding took place" to give * his "majority popular vote", like TX, CA and FL. It was also installed in GA prior to the 2002 elections (which had numerous "upsets") and OH in 2003.

[americanwhothinks]

40. hey, eloriel--

i wrote on opinion piece for opednews.com that made this same argument-- ie, that a certain kind of reduction sets up dismissal, and i argued that this tactic is what OJ's lawyers did so well..

if you want to see your own logic laid out in a little different fashion, the address of the article is,

www.opednews.com/maland_111904_glove.htm

anyway,i always find it fun to see my own logic phrased differently...so if you share that interest, check it(me?!) out!

p.s. i'm a big eloriel fan!!

[thanatonautos]

29. Smale, Shannon

I'm a physicist not a mathematician but, Claude Shannon
and Stephen Smale are both very very famous, very highly
regarded mathematicians. The Fields Medal is roughly
equivalent to the Nobel Prize.

Shannon basically founded what's called information theory,
with specific applications to electronic communications.

One theorem Shannon proved is the Nyquist-Shannon sampling theorem.

It makes a precise statement about the minimum number of points
you need to sample a periodic function at to be able to determine
x number of frequencies in its Fourier decomposition.

Smale is legendary, and produced lots of results. The work for
which he won the Fields medal is in an area of mathematics
called Morse theory. Morse theory makes connections between
the number of stationary points on a differentiable manifold, and
the topology of the manifold.

It's an abstruse subject I don't know all that well, so
I won't attempt to explain.

ZeoSync is not a company I am familiar with, so
it doesn't signify anything to me at all. I don't
know anything of Piotr Blass.

I'ld guess that Smale is a highly, highly
unlikely person to be involved in any sort of election fixing.

Was there some special reason that this came to your
attention?

[Carolab]

30. Yes, he was mentioned here

www.walkingwithfisher.com

Jeff Fisher ran for a seat as a rep in Florida. He has information from Dr. Blass and others that proves how the votes were hacked. Dr. Blass worked with Dr. Smale at this company, ZeoSync, which has now been mysteriously abandoned after making industry-shaking announcements about a "zero data compression" breakthrough. This story is extremely involved and so you need to go to Fisher's site to read about it. There is also some highly technical information reproduced on his site that he apparently obtained through discussion with Dr. Blass that pertains to what ZeoSync was doing. Since I am not a mathematician it makes no sense to me. But I understand enough about the basics of data transmission over phone lines (used to work at Northern Telecom when voice-data technology was just coming on) to see that there just might be something here that could explain some of what Black Box Voting has said about these voting systems being hacked using remote transmissions and phone lines--over the internet or intranets. There is even a possibility of wireless transmission having been used. Dr. Blass worked at the Bay Point Schools, and he mentions that juveniles there were trained to do this vote rigging. The Bay Point Middle School was the very first installation of Neil Bush's "Ignite" computerized educational software ever, and it was in West Palm Beach, where ZeoSync is located. In addition, the Ignite software was installed in schools all over battleground states subsequent to its first introduction and prior to the 2002 elections and these past elections. Dr. Blass also mentions a Cybernet Systems Corporation in Ann Arbor Michigan. Dr. Blass and Dr. Smale both were trained at and worked for the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor. There is in fact a Cybernet Systems Inc., which is headquartered in Ann Arbor, Michigan. The CEO of that company, Chuck Jacobus, used to work for Veridian, which was purchased by General Dynamics, which is a company that gets the lion's share of no-bid defense contracts and is in fact a company of the Carlyle Group a private investment firm owned by the Bushes, James Baker, and Frank Carlucci and of which the bin Laden family had an interest until it became "embarrassing" after 9-11. Neil Bush got a huge investment from the Saudis in his "Ignite" software company and in addition is to be instrumental in placing it in schools in Kuwait and Iraq as part of the "rebuilding" effort there, and also has substantial contracts for Mexico. There was a programmer Dr. Blass named, Alan Gutierrez, who worked for Cybernet Systems in Ann Arbor and that story checks out. He was working on Linux/Red Hat applications which were apparently pretty high-end and he was very excited about them and posted them on his blogs but the links are no longer there. I think it is especially interesting because Cybernet Systems develops applications in Linux/Red Hat, and in addition they have been very heavily involved in virtual reality/flight simulator programs and have contracts with NASA. The ZeoSync company was working in the area of RFID/retinal scanning ID/facial recognition and was selling contracts purportedly to the Transportation Department. The other principal, H. Hamby Hutcheson, has a history of felony and he suddenly dropped out of this company which is still listed as active on the Florida Department of State's website but its CEO, Peter St. George for some reason moved from West Palm Beach to Chapel Hill, NC in April. Jeff Fisher says that Dr. Blass has refused to give him the rest of the evidence because he is protecting Joseph Klock, who was Katherine Harris's attorney in 2000. Dr. Klock knows Roy Black, who every year runs a fundraising gala in West Palm Beach for the Bay Point Schools. Dr. Blass is protecting Klock because Klock helped him to get his son out of a "treatment center" called Growing Together which was abusing his son. This center is owned by the Semlers, Mel who was is ambassador to Italy, and Betty whom Jeb Bush calls "ambassadorable". The Semlers ran a string of Group Homes that have a lengthy history of litigation for abuse, called "The Straight Foundation". The Straights are also involved with Rev. Moon of the Unification Church, as are the Bushes. I think there might be a few details I left out but this pretty much covers it. Fisher has gone to the FBI with his information and he was at the Conyers forum today and brought that up. This guy is risking life and limb to get this information out to the public. His life is a mess, with a house that was torn up by hurricanes, a site that is being hacked into regularly and I am sure no small degree of harrassment for his efforts. He has nothing to gain by this, as far as I can tell, and he comes across as someone who is completely genuine, and scared almost out of his wits, but who is determined to get this information "to the world", as he said today. Of course, he is getting the usual "tin foil hat" wearer treatment and even DUers today were disparaging him as coming across kind of "wacky". Well, I think I would be wacky too if I were carrying this kind of information around with me, trying to get it out to the world, taking it to the FBI, etc. and not getting anywhere with it except for being ignored and written off as some kind of a quack. I think he is very genuine and trying with all of his ability to help his country.

[thanatonautos]

31. OK, I see what piqued your interest.

But I think the mathematics of Shannon and Smale are
completely irrelevant here.

You don't need Morse theory, or apparently non-existent zero
data compression breakthroughs to hack elections. Just
ordinary computer programming and a bit of cracking
experience.

I can't comment on the Blass connection to the schools ...
but the mathematics seems just not to be related in any
conceivable way.

[Carolab]

32. Thank you.

That is what I wanted to know. But, still, do you not find it very curious, if not entirely unbelievable, that a man with Dr. Smale's background would be tied up in something like this? YET, his name is listed on the ZeoSync website as a principal in this company, along with Dr. Blass, who is himself no lightweight mathematician (it says on the website he developed one of the first websites). So I am trying to figure out what this company was really doing, why they made this incredible announcement which then sort of died off, Dr. Blass and Dr. Smale still listed as being involved, and H. Hamby Hutcheson suddenly having removed himself from this company. This firm is STILL listed as active, so what is going on here? The head of this operation is an affirmed "con man" from Florida. In addition, people were chasing down another company in Grand Rapids, Michigan, a CyberNET Group, which in the middle of our investigation was suddenly shut down and its records seized by the FBI! This CyberNET Group was apparently a "shell company" that masqueraded as a company doing websites and operating as an ISP, and they borrowed a large amount of money from CharterOne but had about half of their servers empty but rigged with lights to appear as though they were operating. Then, after the records were seized, the CEO, Barton Watson, disappeared for a few days and later called 911 threatening to kill himself, police came to his house, shots rang out, and hours later they found him dead of a "suicide". This company is being investigated for wire, mail and bank fraud and money laundering. Watson's wife, Kris Kolarz Watson, and Watson's partner, James Horton, are being investigated, or so we are told. Grand Rapids is also the HQ for Amway/Quixtar and I don't know how much you know about DeVos and Van Andel and their connections to the Christian right and to the Council for National Policy but they are extremely powerful, huge donors to the Republican party and apparently control Grand Rapids and a fair share of Michigan if not part of the rest of the country. Their company has been exposed as having "scammed" even their top-level "diamond" people, some of whom are suing. The CyberNET Group, coincidentally, listed DeVos Place as one of its clients, and Quixtar's website as well as the CyberNET Group's website appear in the portfolio of the same website designer, who also runs a website design business in Orlando. We are all trying to make sense of this and there have been lots of facts collected on quite a few threads, but this is the gist of it.

[thanatonautos]

33. Mathematicians can be pretty unworldly ...

That is what I wanted to know. But, still, do you not find it very curious, if not entirely unbelievable, that a man with Dr. Smale's background would be tied up in something like this? YET, his name is listed on the ZeoSync website as a principal in this company, along with Dr. Blass, who is himself no lightweight mathematician (it says on the website he developed one of the first websites). So I am trying to figure out what this company was really doing, why they made this incredible announcement which then sort of died off, Dr. Blass and Dr. Smale still listed as being involved, and H. Hamby Hutcheson suddenly having removed himself from this company

I don't find it entirely unbelievable that Smale would be
involved in some shady company ... mathematicians of Smale's
caliber can very, very eccentric and not necessarily
business savvy at all. I have met a couple of mathematicians
of that level, though not Smale.

My guess as to what they were doing, is that they
were probably trying to make a lot of money by claiming this
great breakthrough, possibly Smale got involved on Blass's
suggestion. Maybe Smale didn't check the work, maybe
he really didn't care, maybe he's getting a bit old
by now.

As you say, Smale, and Blass were both mathematicians. They knew eachother at Berkeley.

Do you remember the cold fusion nonsense?

Pons and Fleischman were a pair of con-men ... my mother
could tell it from the minute she saw them, I knew the
physics was impossible, but did a trivial calculation to
show it. Their result was impossible by about 80 orders
of magnitude. But some excellent physicists ...
no less than Julian Schwinger, believed in it and that
there was a conspiracy among Western theoretical physicists
to suppress the truth of it.

You see what I'm saying?

[Carolab]

34. Smale's involvement and an explanation of the ZeoSync technology

Blass and Smale knew each other from the University of Michigan. I don't believe that Blass was at UC Berkeley. But Smale is there now.

Here is an article I found that discusses Smale's involvement and the technology that ZeoSync was developing, and also a link to a discussion of the encoding techology itself.

http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0%2Caid%2C79223%2C00.asp

http://www.endlesscompression.com

NOTICE that the second article references Shannon sampling. Also it includes comments by Peter St. George on the techology and includes a section called "strange things" that makes VERY interesting reading--notice some of these dates, too. (Be sure to scroll down to read both St. George's and Piotr Blass's statements.)

Strange things:

Jan Sloot just died (July 11, 1999) some days before the date he needs to register the source code. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Sloot)This can always happen, but there is never found anything back from all his papers or equipment what can explain his inventing, while there are people who have seen that he had wrote it down and also they have seen much more equipment and papers then what's found after his dead.

The death cause of Robert Langley (Sept 14, 2001) and also what happens with his company and license is unknown to me, if somebody has more information let me know.

The ZeoSync Corporation website shutdown (quickly after June 3, 2002) after they announced (January 7, 2002) their invention to the world and after they fund (round March 1, 2002 an extra 40 million dollar private stock (the company was already started with 10 million dollar private funding).

Media World Communication Limited acquire (October 1, 2003) Inventor Adam Clark Adams Platform Technology (APT) licence after the Tolly Group(*), CSIRO and the Monash University proofed(**) that the inventing was working. Just before MWC want to start selling stocks at the Australian Stock Exchange (ASX) again, suddenly (September 3, 2004) the APT inventing is not working as expected and they even use a copy of the On2_VP3 codec(***), this after 7 years research and improving the inventing and many successful demonstration(****)! It's clear that here are tested two different systems where the Tolly Group tested the real ATP system.

* The Tolly Group test for 3Com, Cisco Systems, Inc., Dell Computer Corp., Hewlett-Packard Co., IBM, Intel Corp., Lucent Technologies, Microsoft Corp., and Nortel Networks.
** Update: Adams Platform proof removed off Tolly website September 23, 2004!
*** On2 codec company website www.on2.com started January 25, 1999, years after Adam Clark showed his inventing!
**** Screendaily August 17, 2001 wrote 'Shrouded in mystery and under tight security, some 20 specially selected guests, including cinema executives, were this week given a demonstration at the Hard Rock Cafe in Sydney, of something that could change the face of video distribution into the home. What they saw - and an "independent" executive from high-profile consultancy Deloitte Touche Tohatsu confirmed there was no smoke or mirrors - was full screen video streamed in real time from a server 1,000 kilometres away, using Internet protocols and a standard PC, analogue phone line and modem. There was no down load time, no broadband infrastructure and impressive picture quality. "We would not be in this if we were not 110% sure that the technology works," MWB chief executive John Tatoulis told Screendaily, admitting to feeling a bit like a snake oil salesman. "It is real, it was developed in my home town, and we now have the opportunity to revolutionise the distribution and entertainment industry."'

[Carolab]

35. Kick

[Carolab]

36. Sloot (from the Wikipedia link above)

Jan Sloot was a Dutch inventor, who claimed to have developed a revolutionary data compression technique, the "Sloot Digital Coding System", which could compress a complete movie down to 8 kilobytes of data—obviously, this is orders of magnitude greater compression than the best currently available technology.

This system supposedly didn't use the binary system, but an "alternative digital alphabet" he designed himself. Despite the seeming impossibility of such a technique there were investors that saw potential. However, Sloot died of a heart attack one day before he was supposed to place a patent on his technique.

Such grandiose claims of "too good to be true" compression are not uncommon, but somehow they never manage to produce a functioning product.

[thanatonautos]

39. Thanks,. those articles are quite illuminating about Smale.

Blass and Smale knew each other from the University of Michigan. I don't believe that Blass was at UC Berkeley. But Smale is there now.

OK, thanks. I didn't read carefully enough. I certainly have no personal knowledge of the whereabouts of either of them, or where
they met.

Here is an article I found that discusses Smale's involvement and the technology that ZeoSync was developing, and also a link to a discussion of the encoding techology itself.

http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0%2Caid%2C79223%2C0...

Yes. So the basic story is that ZeoSync claimed in 2001 to have
developed a magic compression algorithm, which defeats
theoretical limits on compression algorithms and thus
will revolutionize telecommunications. You'ld be able to
download whole movies instantaneously over a 56K modem ...
etcetera, etcetera.

The proof is in the pudding ... what is this magic algorithm?

To make anyone believe that it exists at all, ZeoSync either
has to exhibit it, which they refuse to do saying it's proprietary,
or ZeoSync could develop devices based on the algorithm and
show that they can do what's claimed for them.

ZeoSync clearly hoped to con a bunch of venture capital into
giving them money to develop prototype devices.

It's an obvious scam, and they've tried to attach the names
of lots of mathematicians to it to try to give it credibility.

After reading the first article I retract my guess about what
went on, it looks like Smale showed pretty good sense.

Steve Smale, an award-winning researcher and
professor emeritus at the University of California at
Berkeley, was also named as someone involved in the
project by ZeoSync. Smale said in an e-mail to the IDG
News Service that he had only spent "one hour" on the
project and was "in no position to say anything about
these claims."

So contrary to the impression I got at first, Smale
was not a member of the ZeoSync company, he's
just one of many who were named by the company as
taking part in this hypothetical project. But he
effectively denies even that he was taking part.
He says he just spent one hour on it, can't say
anything about the results.

It's pretty clear from this that Smale wants nothing to do
with the whole thing. It looks a bit as if he probably just
talked to Blass about it for a half an hour or so, realized
it was total crap, and then Blass told the company Smale
was on board. Sheesh.


http://www.endlesscompression.com

NOTICE that the second article references Shannon sampling. Also it includes comments by Peter St. George on the techology and includes a section called "strange things" that makes VERY interesting reading--notice some of these dates, too. (Be sure to scroll down to read both St. George's and Piotr Blass's statements.)

This page is full of horrible crankery ... it's basically
unreadable gibberish, apart from the statements of the
company officers.

Shannon's name comes in only because his information theory is the
basis for the theoretical limits on compression algorithms, the
ones that ZeoSync claims magically to have broken.

Blass's statement and St. Georges statement establish basically
that they're trying to convince people how swimmingly things are
going with their earth-shaking project.

They want to convince marks to contribute money, that's about it.

Where are the magical compression devices ... have they
ever appeared?

As far as I can tell Smale has nothing much to do with
all of this, except he knew Blass, and probably made the
mistake of talking to him about the whole thing.

[thanatonautos]

42. Questionable whether ZeoSync website establishes much about Smale

That is what I wanted to know. But, still, do you not
find it very curious, if not entirely unbelievable, that a man
with Dr. Smale's background would be tied up in something like
this? YET, his name is listed on the ZeoSync website as a
principal in this company, along with Dr. Blass

I guess you are referring to the following, when you
say that Smale is listed as a principal of the firm on
the company website?

(go to http://www.backseatdriver.com/clients/ZeoSync/docs/index.htm,
navigate to about us, then to Corporate Backgrounder, see
bottom of the page)

World Renown Scientific Team - The company's groundbreaking work has attracted the support of some of the
world's leading scientists and mathematicians who work with
the company's scientific staff to test and validate ZeoSync's technology. This senior group of researchers includes Dr. Piotr
Blass, developer of one of the world's first websites. The ZeoSync scientific team includes the following leading mathematicians:
Dr. Piotr Blass, Dr. Borko Furht, Dr. Aaron Meyerowitz,
Dr. Steve Smale and Dr. Holger Dillner.

Or possibly to this?

(navigate to Corporate Facts, see bottom of page)

The ZeoSync Team - The company's groundbreaking
work has attracted the support of some of the world's leading scientists and mathematicians who work with the company's
scientific staff to test and validate ZeoSync's technology.
This senior group of researchers includes Dr. Piotr Blass,
developer of one of the world's first websites. The ZeoSync
scientific team includes the following leading mathematicians:

Peter St. George, Chairman and CEO

Research Team - Dr. Piotr Blass , Dr. Borko Furht, Dr. Aaron Meyerowitz, Dr. Steve Smale and Dr. Holger Dillner.

To my mind, these statements on this site are carefully qualified
and do not even establish that Smale or the others have any
business relationship with ZeoSync, nevermind that they are
principals of the firm.

Even if you accepted the truth of the statements on the
site, Smale is listed as a member of the research team,
not as an executive officer. He isn't listed as part of
management, and neither is Blass.

[Last Lemming]

41. What a summary!

I've been following this and admiring your work on this question since the election. (The only thing I say is you forgot the Amway connection.)

I got particularly interested when I saw that the CEO of Cybernet was in the police standoff after Cybernet was raided by the feds and then that he had shot himself.

Any more of an idea of Cybernet? The partner seems to have shown up but the wife is still missing. . .any idea about those weird 911 tapes (When the 911 person asks him what's the matter, he says: I've got a gun in my mouth. The 911 guy assumes he is holding the gun, but clearly he was not.) Why did they publish it on the internet? A warning? Do they usually post things like this?

The bad news, As I understand it, is that the FBI is not going near vote fraud.

maybe some good news: we all are focusing on the vote fraud issue as far as bringing the administration down but more likely, I bet, will be the FBI investigation into AIPAC, etc. There was another raid a few days ago.

Somethings got to give.