Bush got 16% of Ohio blacks!!! (says Zogby)

[NewYorkerfromMass]

up from 9% in 2000. If this is true then there is no way Ohio could have gone to Kerry and the numbers may be legitimate.

Not a poll chart but I just read it here: http://zogby.com/Soundbites/ReadClips.dbm?ID=10522

"...Bush got large blocs of black votes where he needed them most: the swing states. According to exit poll data tallied by The Associated Press and Edison/Mitofsky, 16 percent of black Ohioans voted for Bush, a 7 percentage point gain over 2000’s total. Not coincidentally, six in 10 black Ohioans voted for a ballot initiative that would ban same-sex marriage. This, along with double-digit showings in other swing states, is remarkable considering the GOP’s Southern strategy that in the 1960s played on white fears of desegregation, which shifted the black vote to mostly Democrats...."

[David Dunham]

1. Some blacks voted Bush due to gay marriage issue in OH.

[SHRED]

2. Real smart

They worry so much about someone else's ass and meanwhile are willing to take it up the ass from the shrub. Real smart.

[AmyCrat]

6. This makes absolutely NO sense to me

that any black person would vote against gay marraige.

Do they not forget that it wasn't all that long ago that interracial marraige was against the law? Or that it was against the law for two black people to get married???

I have never understood how any group of minorities can be FOR the discrimination of another group of minorities :(

[Zeke]

11. Hmmmmmmm.......

Wow. Good point.

[aquart]

15. Please. It's the norm.

[Gman]

19. It may not make sense but that's the way it is

Blacks are stongly against gay marriage. Some that I've talked to bristle at the comparison between gay rights and the civil rights movement.

However, I don't know of any Blacks (and I know many) that see their way to voting Bush even thought they're against gay marriage.

[Catherine Vincent]

34. I don't think a lot of them realize that.

I have a niece in Florida that voted for Bush** (incuding her husband and in-laws). I couldn't believe it and the reason she gave was the gay marriage thing. I wish I had known they were voting Bush because I would have explained to them their consequences.

[Razorback_Democrat]

3. Interesting how the exit poll data is "okay" on some issues

but not on the prediction of the election outcome

remember exit polls predicted a Kerry win

[Bread and Circus]

8. The exit polls are only accurate if it pushes the RW radical agenda

Didn't you know that?

[cilla4progress]

10. Exit polls

I posted on another thread that I came here after the election to read and learn because something just didn't seem right. It was the exit polls that triggered it.

In a moment of quiet and reflection around 11/4, it hit me like a flash: everyone was attributing great credibility to the exit polls on the moral values issues, while simultaneously exclaiming how inaccurate they were as to predicting the Kerry win. I don't see how you can have it both ways. I thought maybe my thinking was faulty, but have seen nothing to explain this satisfactorily. It is so obvious to me and I remain frustrated at the lack of a rational explanation!

[WhoWantsToBeOccupied]

21. You're forgetting that...

...the sample size is much smaller when you're talking about exit polls of Blacks (or evangelicals) in Ohio versus all Ohio voters.

Oh, wait. That just reinforces your point. Never mind. ;-)

My apologies. I forgot to clear this with Fox before I started typing.

[goodboy]

4. I don't believe it. (nt)

[yardwork]

26. I don't either. It's true that some African-Americans vote Republican

But such a huge increase in the percent between 2000 and 2004? I find that hard to believe.

We aren't seeing that kind of increase in blacks voting Republican in other states. Why Ohio? Makes no sense.

Most African-Americans in Ohio live in urban areas, and would be LESS likely to be swayed by the gay argument than blacks living in the rural south.

I don't believe it.

[goodboy]

29. especially since bush is the first pres not to meet with the NAACP

also he's the worst thing to happen to black people since jim crow

[tex-wyo-dem]

5. There's those bloody exit polls again...

[KittyWampus]

7. Either Exit Polls Are Entirely Right Or Entirely Wrong

[fertilizeonarbusto]

9. no pity from me

When the rethugs fuck them without lube.

[kk897]

12. yet a Zogby rep was just on the Conyers hearings

saying that there must be a full investigation.

[Eloriel]

13. Remember -- the exit poll data was corrected TO the

actual "results" under the assumption that the vote totals are correct, which I hope we all realize is a faulty assumption to start with.

[CornField]

16. Exactly --

This is no more accurate than a scientist adjusting his findings based on his initial assumptions.

The vote is flawed... they corrected the exit polls to jive with the vote.

[unpossibles]

14. well, there are two takes on this

option 1 - that many Christians are against homosexuality and that is something which has been used to exploit the black Christian vote all over. Also many black people I know do not think it is fair to compare their struggle (slavery, civil rights, etc) to the homosexual struggle. Not saying I believe this, but it is something I have witnessed first hand.

option 2 - this is a cover-up; a way to make the Bullsh victory more palatable and easier to believe.

probably a combination of the two. What's "funny" is how they tried to block black citizens from voting, then hijacked the vote of the people who got through.

[Mastiff]

17. Note Zogby is using Mitofsky data.

He is not using his own data. The exit poll numbers from Mitofsky et AL are suspect. I have read that he sampled the most conservative precinct in a largely Democratic county. This sampling would bias the results toward Bush. If Zogby is using the corrected exit polls the results would be even more skewed.
Mitofsky's refusing to provide raw data to Congress is even more reason to question the validity of his results. I think he has a dog in this hunt.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

18. If Mitofsky data is crap then why is Zogby legitimizing it?

by reiterating it? I see tacit agreement here.

[DARE to HOPE]

22. Zogby is treading lightly, but he is for truth and justice

I do believe. They are all under a LOT of pressure.

But the fact that he is represented there today is significant. And he used his public reputation to call today for an official investigation.

[goldengreek]

23. Is he being a smartass? In a good way?

I mean, that's just unbelievable. Maybe that's his subtle way of saying the corrected exit poll information is crap.

And I assume he's drawing on the "corrected" information.

People like him need to be smart about their moves. When you travel around the country like they do avoiding airplanes isn't an option. We all know how much trouble they can cause progressives when they piss off the fascists.

(ahem.)

[witchhazl]

32. Please. This is *not* written by Zogby, it is not Zogby's analysis.

This is just one of some 10,000 articles *mentioning* Zogby, that Zogby posts on his website. It was written "By Fred McKissack, Fort Wayne Journal Gazette, IN"

The only Zogby reference is to a separate (not exit poll) poll taken by his organization that showed blacks to have a strong "pro-life" orientation.

[TexasLawyer]

33. "Zogby In The Media"

This is taken from a section in the Zogby website called Zogby in the Media. It is just a reprint of an article by reporter Fred McKissack that appeared 12/5/2004 in the Fort Wayne Journal Gazette in Indiana. Mr. Zogby wants to sell his services, and so has a section of his site demonstrating that his poll results are influential enough to be cited and relied upon by reporters, politicians, etc...

If you hit the button at the end of the article for "Back to Zogby in the Media" Zogby specifically states that the articles are not necessarily his opinion. He says:

"Please note that the information presented in this section of Zogby International's site is written by their sources. Content is taken from the original story. The opinions expressed in these stories are not necessarily those of Zogby International, its employees or of Mr. Zogby. Be sure to contact the media source for reprints of complete stories."


The Fort Wayne Journal Gazette article relied on Zogby's data re the overwhelmingly pro-life perspective of African-Americans as accurate, so it is natural that the article would be reprinted on the Zogby site.

[WI_DEM]

20. had Bush gotten the same percentage of black vote as '00

in Ohio Kerry would be president.

[skysurfer]

24. I Don't Believe It

I just don't believe this. I will say that homosexuality is a very touchy issue in the black community for a variety of reasons. I wouldn't be at all surprised if some black churches around Ohio riled up their congregations to vote for the Pretender because of his gay marriage stance. BUT, I refuse to believe that 16% would be motivated to vote for him because of that. This is just more proof to me that this election was stolen from the bottom to the top. Numbers are being created to backup false claims in order to legitimize the Pretender's "victory." I'm not falling for it.

[cloudythescribbler]

25. Ohio and elections

First of all, a shift of 7% of Ohio blacks would only cost Kerry a little over 1% of the statewide vote, which could hurt but not explain the massive amounts of fraud uncovered.

* freepress.org has documented the systematic denial of voting machines to a HUGE number of Democratic precincts across the state -- although according to people in her offices, relatively FEW precincts within Stubbs-Jones' district itself. Kenyon college for example, had TWO voting machines for well over 10,000 registered voters, which was less than ONE TENTH the proper number, generating lines in excess of 8 hours. Reports of warehouses in some counties with over 60 unused voting machines, and of overwhelmingly black precincts that usually get five or six voting machines getting only three even though record turnouts were expected, were supplemented with tales of lines often over three hours long, almost always in overwhelmingly Democratic precincts. People need to go to work and many people left the long lines, one minister estimated a loss of 7000 votes (mainly black) to the Kerry ticket in Youngstown alone.
Meanwhile, in Republican districts, like Delaware County, where justifier of the lying Matt Bai at the New York Times, whose story on Ohio in the New York Times Magazine MADE NO MENTION OF ANY OF THESE ISSUES, did go to Delaware County briefly, there was no one -- even though it turned out to have a 73% turnout! There were PLENTY of machines for the Republicans and three hour lines for the Democrats where turnout was lower, often much lower, than 70%.
The issues go on and on -- of Kerry getting outpolled in conservative Southern Ohio by an obscure and underfunded black woman running for a state judgeship at the bottom of the ticket; no one could explain this plausibly except as a product of hacking the totals. The exit polls in Ohio showed Kerry winning BOTH men and women, and winning the state with over 200,000 votes. Wonder where those votes went?

There are reasons for the media lockdown of Votergate 2004 and these are a few of them

[Roger_Otip]

27. Zogby does not say this

he quotes the article on his site because it mentions him, but the article itself is by Fred McKissack, Fort Wayne Journal Gazette, IN

[trudyco]

28. Is this the same tainted data that said hispanic bush vote up?

An hispanic group got NBC to retract. So why can't the NAACP poll the African American community and see if another retraction is warranted. Anybody know anybody at the NAACP?

trudyco

[Old Mouse]

30. You either believe the accuracy of the exit polls

which mean a Kerry landslide, or you don't. There can be no picking of the pieces of data that only support one view or the other.

[tngledwebb]

31. Polls can't be trusted anymore.

Or have they ironed out the kinks since all those problems on election day?

[tinfoil_beret]

35. Highly Improbable n/t