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USA TODAY-CONYERS WANTS "RAW EXIT POLL DATA

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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 06:58 AM
Original message
USA TODAY-CONYERS WANTS "RAW EXIT POLL DATA
Edited on Thu Dec-09-04 07:07 AM by OmmmSweetOmmm
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bklyncowgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 06:59 AM
Response to Original message
1. Bad link nt
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fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 07:08 AM
Response to Original message
2. Your link was bad so I posted
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 07:12 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Thank you! I edited the bad link, and it works now! n/t
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 07:25 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. exit poll data is suspose to "help reporters and editors plan stories".
uumm.....So what reporters do with it is none of their concern?

From your link:

....Edie Emery, a spokeswoman for the consortium, said the group did not want to comment on Conyers' request. She said that, as after past elections, much of this year's data "will be archived at the Roper Center and the University of Connecticut in early 2005."

In addition, she said, the firms that produced the exit polls are reviewing this year's results and will submit a report to the AP and networks "in mid- to late-January."

The information Conyers wants typically isn't made public. He's looking for the late afternoon or early evening rough estimates of who was ahead. That data are only supposed to be used to help reporters and editors plan stories.

The reason the data may not be of much help to Conyers, said Joan Konner, dean emerita of the Columbia University Graduate School of Journalism, is that the margin of error is just too large — especially if the information is sliced into smaller and smaller "subgroups."
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 07:27 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. been looking for some coverage of the forum--other than J. Jackson
AP story, but nothing really has come up other than the one you posted above. Looked in large newspapers.
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 07:41 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. I found this coverage from The Nation
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/thenation/20041208/cm_thenation/12056_1
Guarantee the Right to Vote

Wed Dec 8, 2:31 PM ET

John Nichols

As US Rep. John Conyers (news, bio, voting record), the ranking Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee (news - web sites), chaired Tuesday's hearing on irregularities in the presidential voting in Ohio on November 2, the Rev. Jesse Jackson (news - web sites) warned that the session must be more than merely an opportunity to "vent."

"We cannot vent and then have Congress not act. If these reports are not investigated, we have all wasted our time," the two-time candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination declared. "This cannot simply be an academic venting session. Take this struggle to the streets and legitimize it there, as they did in Selma."

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proudtobeadem Donating Member (665 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
7. kick
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TexasLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
8. USA Today Article---Badly Slanted

I'm happy that a publication as widely circulated as USA Today carried a story on the Conyers hearing. But the writer seems to go out of his way to trivialize the possible importance of the poll data sought by Rep. Conyers, and to minimize the entire subject matter of the hearing.

An excerpt:

<snip> Rep. John Conyers of Michigan, the ranking Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee, said Wednesday that he doesn't know whether the information would answer questions about whether problems at the polls led to miscounts in the presidential election. ***Most polling experts who have studied exit polls doubt the data would be of use.***

But, Conyers maintained, “if we can compare that data to some of the other information we have, it has the potential to be of significance” if it sheds more light on voters' intentions. He plans to ask for the information within a week.

The media organizations that paid for the information are expected to turn down such a request. ****Though the media publish information, “they don't have to give anybody their notes or reveal all their methods,” said Jack Shafer, media critic and editor at large for Slate, an online magazine.*****

*****The polling firms that produced the exit poll data have declined a similar request from Conyers.********

Because Republicans control Congress, Conyers will likely only be able to call attention to the issue. His effort has been spurred in part by charges that in some states, particularly Ohio, shortages of voting machines and other problems may have been discouraged minority voters from casting ballots for Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry. Conyers held a hearing on the Ohio allegations Wednesday.
<snip>


**********

*****RE: Polling experts not believing there is any use for the early poll data:
"Polling experts" are not the people to answer this question. They are not necessarily aware of the fraud issues, and do not necessarily know the purpose and importance of the raw exit poll data as it was periodically updated throughout the day on Nov. 2. As outlined in this excellent Orlando Weekly article, the raw data is critical to an analysis of the fraud issue.


http://www.orlandoweekly.com/news/Story.asp?ID=4688

<snip>Center for Research on Globalization's Michael Keefer states, "The National Election Pool's own data – as transmitted by CNN on the evening of November 2 and the morning of November 3 – suggest very strongly that the results of the exit polls were themselves fiddled late on November 2 in order to make their numbers conform with the tabulated vote tallies."

How do we know the fix was in? Keefer says the total number of respondents at 9 p.m. was well over 13,000 and at 1:36 a.m. it had risen less than 3 percent – to 13,531 total respondents. Given the small increase in respondents, this 5 percent swing to Bush is mathematically impossible. In Florida, at 8:40 p.m., exit polls showed a near dead heat but the final exit poll update at 1:01 a.m. gave Bush a 4 percent lead. This swing was mathematically impossible, because there were only 16 more respondents in the final tally than in the earlier one. </snip>


In judging whether election fraud played a role in voting results, exit polls are highly relevant. In the context of other countries' elections, e.g. Ukraine, exit poll data was exhibit A re the probability of vote fraud. Why is it deemed of no relevance in Ohio, Florida and elsewhere?



**** RE the quote from Slate--
No one is asking for the notes of any pollster or reporter, nor is anyone being asked to reveal any polling methods that have not already been made public. It is only the raw data that is being requested-- data that was already posted on the CNN website for many hours, I understand. The information is to be published in January, the article states. A natural question, then, is what could possibly be the objection to providing the information in order to assist a congressional investigation. This question was not asked, however.


*****RE the purpose of the Hearing--
The article says that the hearing was to look into the "shortages of voting machines and other problems may have discouraged minority voters from casting ballots." The "OTHER PROBLEMS" are entirely skipped over in the article. Little things like votes mysteriously changing from Kerry to Bush, spoilage of Dem votes, missing poll tapes, highly partisan SOS's and county clerks, lockdowns, unexplained participation of voting machine technicians in the vote tabulation process, and so on and so on.

I was definitely underwhelmed by this article, and I am in the process of sending USA a letter to this effect. We need to demand full and fair reporting from the media on this absolutely critical issue.


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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
9. if NBC is one of the groups that "owns" it, can Olberman help?
Edited on Thu Dec-09-04 02:05 PM by McCamy Taylor
for instance, can MSNBC choose to hand over its copy of the data to Conyers or does it have to get the others to agree?


And could MSNBC's possession of raw exit poll data be the reason why it is allowing Olberman to proceed with this story? I.e are they sitting on the smoking gun and they know it?
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TexasLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. kick n/t
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RaulVB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
11. Outrageous!
"The firms that produced the exit polls are reviewing this year's results and will submit a report to the AP and networks "in mid- to late-January."

This is a joke...
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AmerDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
12. based on that article
why the hell should anyone use polling in any form at all. Typical bs in keeping Rove's message. They use exit polling for keeping with the Ukraine message but find the "margin of error" unreliable when dealing with our own country? yea, ok
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Griffy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
13. To the streets.. face it, its the ONLY way !
This will only work if we get up this weekend and march! o o stores.. buy orange hat or scarf, or better go to craft store and get long piece or orange fabric! Write signs that say "if we dont count, how do we know?" "Remeber Florida" "Fraud Happens" !!
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