Dean is on Meet the press right now.

[Lisabtrucking]

[shelley806]

1. Thanks for the info...not on here yet. What's being said?

n/t

[Lisabtrucking]

2. Talking about the democrat party, so far.

[mattclearing]

16. Democrat is not an adjective.

Not to call you out, but generally only people who hate Democrats withhold the "ic" at the end when discussing the party. Now you know.

[Lisabtrucking]

27. You have got to be kidding me.

I know people are uptight because this site has been overtaken by people who like to play like children, but putting an ic at the end of democrat, is not one reason to conclude that I'm one of them. Please give me a break.

[mattclearing]

29. I told you, I'm not trying to call you out.

It is a language thing that they do to mock our Party. It's important to know, and also important to avoid. People who say it sound like Tom DeLay.

[mod mom]

35. Is no one upset that he avoided what is happening in Ohio...

and elswhere regarding the election? Wouldn't you think that HD would speak out?

[mattclearing]

36. Nope. He is running for office.

There is no way he can mention it. Besides, Dean has done more than any other Democrat to expose the potential for electronic vote fraud. I guarantee you he knows the election was fishy as hell.

edited for typo

[w13rd0]

40. Vote machines and potential vote fraud/rigging...

...was one of the first issues he brought up in conversations with Kerry after conceding in the primaries. He also talked about it frequently in the runup to the general election. Should he be more outspoken than those that were robbed by it? Or are you saying Dean was robbed by it?

[MarkusQ]

54. If I had to bet, I'd bet yes, Dean was robbed in the primaries. (n/t)

[jamboi]

72. Dean should speak out again about it. Now! He could be a hero if he did.

Its a big risk, yes but if he did he would probably be drafted by the Greens instantly and aquire a larger base immediately.

[senseandsensibility]

52. I agree

all of the real repuke thugs do so in a co-ordiated effort. They've been doing it for years, and it's just a matter of time until all the talking heads on corportate news are parrotting them.

[electropop]

58. I agree, I hate it when they call us the 'democrat' party

or refer to a democrat senator, a democrat position. We are the Democratic party and we take democratic positions. Should we start referring to them as the 'republic' party?

[IAMREALITY]

63. Just To Be Clear

I agree 100% with your sentiments.

Just wanted to clarify that the word republican is both a noun and an adjective depending on the context it is used whereas Democrat is Only a noun with democratic being the adjective form of Democrat.

[electropop]

71. Republican is a pejorative term in my house n/t

;-)

[Upfront]

56. Tasteblind

is correct. It is something rethugs do all the time.

[stlsaxman]

31. Lisabtruckin is correct-

I am not a "Democratic"- I am a "Democrat". It is a common mistake to say we are the "Democratic Party"... Correctly put- we are the Democrat Party. Now you know. My mother was a collage level English teacher and a staunch democrat and used to relentlessly correct me on this and other grammatic errors I made.

I agree that there are certain "give-aways" to help detect lurkers and freepers but this is more a general error made by many, like the word "irregardless", irrespective of political motive.

... and I know you weren't accusing Lisabtruckin of being a lurker, btw.


(edited for grammar- lol! see? mothers spirit corrects me even today!)

[mattclearing]

33. I said I wasn't.

Check the AP Style guide. It is the Democratic Party. This isn't debatable.

I wasn't accusing her of being a lurker, and said so. It is important to recognize and avoid Republican language techniques creeping into our speech.

Hell, most red-state Democrats probably don't realize this, because the majority of people withold the "ic".

With all due respect to your Mom, this is simply not true. Democrat is not an adjective.

[IAMREALITY]

41. tasteblind You Are Completely Correct

It is obvious you weren't attacking but were instead commenting that the Dem HATERS refer to it as the DEMOCRAT Party as an intentional putdown. You were completely in the right to point that out and educate the poster to the honest mistake. You weren't putting the poster down, you were rather helping the poster to know better for the future. There is nothing wrong with that, as helping to educate, especially in this context, should always be welcome.

You did the poster a service and most of us understand completely.

It's All Good!

:toast:

[mattclearing]

42. Thanks. Greatly appreciate it.

I keep saying it, we can't beat them if we sound like them. Time to turn them off and stop using their language.

[buddysmellgood]

43. Why is it a putdown? Who cares? Is Democrat a dirty word? I think by

objecting you play right into their hands. They want us to complain as though Democrat is a dirty word.

[Lisabtrucking]

I agree, I never thought it would become such a hoopla.

I have always been a democrat, and yes I don't see the big deal over the word.

[HR_Pufnstuf]

50. Everyone's a Democrat if...

...you live in a democracy.

no?

[electropop]

59. No

Apparently there are many who are far more interested in holding power than in living in a democracy.

We can't let Rove, Norquist et al continue to control the debate by controlling the language. They are geniuses at cooking up subtle putdowns and twisting the debate, through short misleading phrases such as 'voter fraud' instead of the reality, 'election fraud'.

[FredStembottom]

70. They say "democrat" to imply that Liberals aren't democratic

It's a nifty way of re-enforcing the "Liberal elite" idea. In the mythical tale (lie) that the neo-cons have built their empire on, "Liberal elites" have totalitarian control of every aspect of life. They are saying that this complete control we supposedly have makes us so UN-democratic that the word can't even be used when referring to us. And so they make a never-ending editorial comment by removing the ic.

It's absolutely jam-packed with meaning to leave off that ic. It's an instant summary of all the lies they feed to America.

And Democrats themselves must never, ever do it.

[IAMREALITY]

48. Let's Try This Again

The ENEMY uses the word that way as a slur, to put us down.

Using it as they do is playing into THEIR hands. It is really sad that there are those here that instead of saying 'oh, thank you, I didn't know that!' instead choose to get all huffy and puffy about it.

Saying the Democrat Party, to those that know better, is the same as using a racial slur while in a group of that race. Get it???

Stubborness helps NOBODY. Learning from mistakes does.

[buddysmellgood]

49. Racial slur? Okay. Now I see. Yes, thank you. I understand. We are victims

We need to stomp our feet and get upset at every childish comment the republicans make. Doing this will not fan the flame or give "the enemy" any satisfaction whatsoever.

[IAMREALITY]

51. No One Is Stomping Their Feet Or Getting Upset LOL

He offered a correction to a misuse of terminology and he was completely in the right.

He DEFINITELY is not the one taking the recommendation WAYYYYYY too far into the realm of drama. (nor am I)

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

[senseandsensibility]

57. I don't understand your "analysis"

I am an English teacher, and your post makes no sense. Obviously, in your first example, "I am a Democratic", the word is being used as a noun. In "Democratic Party", it is being used as an adjective. The word Democrat receives a suffix to indicate that it is being used as an adjective. I have taught English for many years, but am currently teaching second grade writing. My second graders just finished a unit on adding suffixes to change word meaning. It really is basic stuff. Of course the bigger issue is that repuke thugs do engage in this kind of "attack language", and it is co-ordinated. If you've never noticed it, perhaps you aren't very sensitive to these issues.

[Lisabtrucking]

61. OK is it democrat or democratic that should of been used in my statement?

Guess I should find my William STrunk JR. and E.B. White (The elements of Style) hand book.

[IAMREALITY]

64. See Below

If you are using it as a noun, you use Democrat. i.e. I am a Democrat. I love Democrats. Where are the Democrats.

If you are using it as an adjective you would use Democratic. i.e. I am a member of the Democratic Party. I love the Democratic Party. Where is the Democratic Party.

[ValleyGirl]

65. Democratic

They purposely say Democrat Party because the word Democratic has a patriotic & positive connotation and they will stop at nothing to dis us in every little way possible. Even pundits like Matthews have noted them doing it.

[Lisabtrucking]

66. I have the utmost respect for an English teacher, rules, rules , and

more rules. Thanks for your input.

[ValleyGirl]

68. I don't know what you are getting so snitty about

If you want to go around talking like them, be my guest. But you will undoubtedbly get the same responses from Democrats.

[senseandsensibility]

67. Hi Lisa!

Hope you don't mind if I call you Lisa. I also hope you saw that my reply was not directed at you, but at another poster's attempt to give grammar lessons that were incorrect. I rarely jump in and correct others' grammar. I'm not the grammar police.:) But when others attempt to be the grammar police without knowing their facts, I feel free to jump in. To answer your question, your statement should have said Democratic Party because it was being used as an adjective. No big deal, really, except for the unfortunate fact that the particularly thuggish elements of the repuke party do this as a co-ordinated strategy. I can appreciate that to some, this seems petty. For instance, I'm not very adept at statistics, and can find myself throwing up my hands after a short bout with a page of numbers and saying, "Who the * cares?" It's not really my thing. But words are my thing, and they do matter in politics.

[Lisabtrucking]

69. Thanks for understanding, and I probably shouldn't have said anything

before. I wish I had the gift of proper English, but I find myself being lazy on the subject. I love to work with my hands. That might be my problem. lol. The sad thing is all those jobs are disappearing. I was once making surgical instruments, but now they are overseas, at least the place I use to work. anyway I will use Democratic more careful.

[Chili]

74. whether it's grammatically correct or not...

...we are members of the Democratic Party, and when Tom DeLay says "Democrat Party" he is indeed meaning it as an insult, just as most right-wingers who hear him and any other extremist on the right use that term.

Democratic Party: http://www.democrats.org/

Not commenting on Lisabtrunkin's use of it, I'm just saying.

[Khephra]

4. He was asked about Kerry's campaign

and was quite diplomatic about it. Russ kept on trying to get him to bash it, but Dean refused to take the bait.

The last half is mostly about people on the "left" (New Republic, if you count them as being Left) attacking Dean as a choice for DNC head because his strategy for getting voters didn't work. Dean came back and pointed out that Rove used a similar approach to winning (appealing to their base) and won.

Sorry I can't be more specific. Just waking up over here.

[slor]

3. And please everyone...

stay past the Dean interview and watch military analyst William Arkin. He always seems to have the right ideas about Iraq (he was also opposed to going into Iraq in the first place as I recall).

[Khephra]

5. He disagrees with Reid about Scalia as head justice!

WOO HOO!

Called him "sarcastic" and "meanspirited" in almost any of his ruling statements.

hehehehe

[Eloriel]

8. yes, saying that

the "glue" that holds things together is people feeling like they were treated fairly by the judicial system, and you don't get that when judges are sarcastic or meanspirited in their rulings about the losing party. He calls it "judicial temperament."

[Khephra]

6. Says he's pro-choice but we should be supporting pro-life demos

that have stuck with the party.

Now...before anyone gets their pants in a bunch, he pointed out that pro-life Democrats are totally different from Republican pro-lifers in that they're TOTALLY Pro-life (against the Death Penalty, etc...).

[shelley806]

14. Thanks for this post... I agree 100% Totally pro-life is anti-death

penalty and anti NRA, I would presume. It's good for us to analyze the differences in the "Pro--life" hypocrisy of the right.

It's on now, here, thanks all.

[Lisabtrucking]

7. Dean would like to be chairman of the party. Let's elect him.

[lonestarnot]

11. Absolutely Elect Him!

[Paradise]

9. Huh??? You're east coast, right? Not on yet on east coast.

Oops, sorry, probably different times in different places rather than uniform east-coast times.
Thanks for alerting me for my time which is 10:30 A.M. :)

[Lisabtrucking]

10. Want to bet?

[Khephra]

12. I'm Indiana

It's on here every Sunday at 10AM. (It's 10:24 AM here now)

[Action Jackson]

13. Dean for chairman!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here's another vote for Dean for chairman of the DNC!!!!

[shelley806]

18. How do we vote for him? Or voice our support? Hopefully not with

Diabolical Voting Machines! Or do we have a say at all?

[Lisabtrucking]

21. We need to let the democratic party know who we want. send, call, mail. nt

[righteous1]

39. There is no way in the world he will get

it, but maybe with a miracle...

[Hamoth]

55. Here's you miracle.

Go to the DNC's winter meeting and crash it per your charter rights. Then tell them why it's dean or bust. See how far they get without our money by golly! They KNNOW we are the new monied interest. They MUST accept and respond to our wishes per the party charter. They are NOT allowed to keep us out or to do this in private.

Dean WILL be the DNC chair if you all want it and have the desire to make it a priority to ge out there and let your state party know what you expect, and what they can expect for failing us.

Crash the winter meeting, tell them why we expect this.

[Twist_U_Up]

15. Maybe DEAN should GOTO OHIO

Instead of trying to better himself for 2008.....
Because as things stand There will be no 2008!!! I wish people would realize this

[Khephra]

20. Um...if you didn't know

If he's DNC head then he can't run in 2008, so none of this has a thing to do with bettering himself for 2008.

I personally think it's Kerry's place to be in Ohio. Yell at him first before you go after Dean. Dean worked his ass off for Kerry. I saw Dean's name mentioned more often than any other ex-candidate when it came to campaigning for Kerry during the election. Dean has worked his ass off for Kerry. It's time that he start thinking of his future and the rest of the party's future.

[Twist_U_Up]

30. True True

Kerry should be there Clinton should be there Gore should be there every damn person that cares about our country should be there.

[DemonFighterLives]

34. I had kind of wondered how he could do both

I would love to see him as DNC head, but also am torn in that I would love to see him run again. Eeeeeeeargh!
If he wants the DNC job, he should definitely get it. Give em hell Dean.

[merh]

62. Damn it, the party is not the issue, not now.

If we don't get a handle on the election fraud, if we don't fight for democracy, there is no party that will be able to win elections, no matter who heads the party.

Don't you folks realize that Kerry's campaign, with the help of Dean, Clark, et al, was able to get the vote out, did energize the base, effectively utilized the base and won the election. More votes than any dem or any president before him. The caveat is that the weed won more votes according to what has been reported, but then are those numbers correct.

THE ISSUE IS NOT THE PARTY. You could make Dean the leader of the DNC and resurrect Kennedy, Ghandi, Martin Luther King, Jr., Dale Earnhardt (as a dem) or Jesus and we still we not win.

Their crafty and multifacted manipulation of the election process is why they won, not because of the problems with the party or the candidate.

See the problem, deal with the problem, coreect the problem, then maybe we can win a damned election.

They stole 2000, 2002, 2004, that is why they own all of the government, they will continue to have their control until we stop the election fraud.

How did Dean address that issue? What did he propose be done to restore honest elections, free from manipulation?

[Khephra]

75. Yes.

Today? Not that I caught. But he repeatedly addressed those issues throughout the campaign, both pre and post-primary season. In fact, he talked about those issues than any other candidate (or ex-candidate) that I saw.

[merh]

76. In the past is in the past

We need them talked about by every leader or wannabee leader or former candidate or candidate today.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

17. It's on here now in NY and going to shut it off. I can't stand anyone

Talking about why Kerry didn't win. It's total BS.

[shelley806]

19. I know. I feel the same, because he did win! n/t

[Khephra]

22. If you would have stuck around, you'd have heard Dean defending Kerry

despite Russ's every attempt to drive a wedge between them.

Pity that you missed it.

[cali]

23. You know

some of us actually believe that while there was a degree of fraud, Bushco won more votes. That doesn't make us stupid or sellouts. I respect people who believe that Kerry won, I just don't agree with them. And this is an argument that is seemingly endless. Heretofor, there has not been firm evidence presented that substantiates that Kerry won.

[juajen]

47. It isn't about who got the most votes. It's the electoral college.

If it was about the most votes, Gore would be the President now, remember? Besides, there are many of us who believe that * skimmed the vote in every state to get his "man-date", and to elect the Senators and Representatives they wanted to win. As far as I'm concerned, they cherry picked every state. Widescale fraud everywhere there was a central tabulator, as Bev Harris warned about continually. It just didn't matter how successful we were at getting out the vote, because they were counting it.

[DebJ]

24. BIG thing I observed: Dean talking about reframing the debate.

Lakoff, ya know. This is definitely the way we need to go.

[Khephra]

26. Agreed

He's become one of the best reframers on our side that I've heard in quite some time.

I'm starting to think that losing might have ended up being the best thing to ever happen to Dean. He's grown so much as a politician in since the primaries that I'm constantly amazed by how adept he is now at countering people like Russ.

[hippiechick]

44. I totally agree - time to reclaim the talking points.

Bro, you have to get better batteries for your phone !!! :P


Everything from civil unions to 'pro-life' to 'death tax' ... the Dems need to reframe those terms and get the truth out there, that the RW is having to code everything because they simply have shit for ideas.


:hippie:

[Khephra]

60. Charging as I type

Sorry about that!

Good thing I started charging it. Mom's car battery died today and she called me just a few minutes after we spoke and I had started re-charging it.

[DebJ]

25. Dean said he would rather be DNC chair then NOT be and

then plan on running for President. He REALLY wants DNC chair.

I'd love to see this. Dean would push for changes in the entire approach. As he said, the Dem message needs to work from the bottom up, from people in Alabama as well as Minnesota....NOT work from the top down. There will be a Dem message, but it needs to come from the grassroots up. Ahh, that's my guy....someone who actually believes in, understands and supports DEMOCRACY.

[mattclearing]

28. OMG, did anyone catch that?

I'm in DC, so I'm a half hour behind, but he implied that President Bush is pro-civil unions! That can't be true, can it?

Too funny...Bush may be forced to deny it.

[w13rd0]

32. Bush has "taken both sides"...

...of the issue, otherwise known as "flip-flopping". Bush has said he wants the decision left to the states and that he is for civil unions, yet Rove insists that he will push for a "I Hate Gays" Ammendment.

[mattclearing]

38. Blech. Typical.

Someone should run an ad saying that Bush supports equal rights for gays. I'm sure they would have to scramble to keep the Christian Right from going bonkers.

[Pirate Smile]

46. In an interview about a week before the election Bush did say he would

support Civil Unions.

The irony is that Kerry and Bush essentially had the same position on this issue except for the Constitutional Amendment.

Of course, the slime balls didn't campaign this way. They lie constantly and seem to justify everything they do as the ends justify the means.

[Carolab]

53. Yes IT IS TRUE!!!

Bush said it in the interview with Charlie Gibson before the election!!!

I was amazed that NO ONE brought it up! You'd have thought SOMEONE would talk about that as a FLIP FLOP.

Leave it to Dean, though. He always catches these things.

[merh]

73. Bush told Charlie Gibson in an interview the weekend before

the election that he was for civil unions, but against gay marriage. Of course, the media didn't label him a flip flopper or hammer him with his change of opinion or his defiance of the party's position, so the RWers never knew he said it. :shrug:

[bklyncowgirl]

37. Nice interview

Friendly, low key but very clear in his arguements about where he thinks the Democratic party should be going.

I was a little suprised that Russert wasn't more aggressive--or maybe he was and Dean just handled it very elegantly.

Of course I would have liked to have had Dean come out swinging on voter fraud but that didn't happen and frankly I wasn't expecting it to happen. Sadly, none of the big players are going to come out on this unless there's something solid to hang their reputations on. I did notice that he mentioned election reform as one of the issues he wanted to persue.

[jdog]

45. I love to hear Dean's straight talking on the positions.

I wish they hadn't ignored all the democrats who have come on board wanting to take a closer look in Ohio. : (