60,000 per state and SHRINKING....

[catnhatnh]

....THAT'S "framing the debate" of *'s supposed "mandate".This should be mentioned any time a poster claims overwhelming support for the chimp...If he could (and did) steal over 119,000 in Ohio alone, I wonder how many of our supposed "Red State" brethren are sitting dazed and confused asking WTF??

[sam sarrha]

1. With the help of The Corporate Media Whores no one will ever hear about it

[MarkusQ]

2. I am!

Maybe the reason I'm finding it so easy to convince Republicans in a red state that something is fishy. You Democrats can at least feel sorry for yourself, thinking that we must have somehow outvoted you.

But we Republicans, on the other hand, see things much more clearly: we know you didn't vote for Bush, and we know a lot of us didn't vote for him either. And yet he got a big majority of the votes in our state? So we're already thinking something is odd with the picture before we even see any news of irregularities.

--MarkusQ

P.S. I got into long talks with four Republicans (one at a time) yesterday, and none of them had any doubts that something was fishy. I didn't say anything about Kerry, or overturning the election, just idle comments about how odd it was that evolved into long, meaty discussions. Two of them even said "We need to go back to paper ballots" without any prompting. One said "if I ran my business the way they run voting, I'd be bankrupt by now...(pause)...or rich, I suppose, if they little sneaks were on my side."

[catnhatnh]

3. Hi,MarkQ...

...I find all your posts both cogent and insightful...wish we had a thousand republicans like you here...Invite your friends?

[MarkusQ]

8. I thought of that...

...but decided it would be more useful to have them spreading the word to the rest of our party. Plus, some of them aren't as thick skinned as I am, and terms like "repukes" are fairly common around here. I am, after all, trying to catalyze an alliance here, not a food fight.

Consequently, I haven't linked to DU in any of my e-mail alerts, or passed on anything that would suggest they ought to come here. Instead, I've been sending them facts (with links to original sources) and suggesting that they pass them on to their other friends. They need to be preaching to the rocks and stones, not to the choir.

--MarkusQ

[catnhatnh]

10. Mea culpa...

....Maxima...do your thing in your way-I forget how defensive I get over at Free Republic...everyone likes to vent and I'm equally guilty...Am pleased as hell to have you here...

[Red State Blues]

13. Good Point.

I don't care for the repukes and other similar stuff either. I don't feel that it furthers the cause.

[ClassWarrior]

14. I never before this realized that you were a Republican, Markus.

You very obviously also share with us what George Lakoff calls the best of American values - hope, responsibility, caring, and opportunity. Bless you.

NGU.

[Blue_In_AK]

23. Republicans of conscience

As I've said here several times, I KNOW there are Republicans with a conscience out there. Keep up the good work, Marcus.

[ewulf]

25. There are a lot of Republicans with consciences out there,

most of them, I'd say. There's just a big disconnect between Republican voters and almost all Republican office holders. It is the leadership, in the white house, congress, and many lower levels of government, that has become thoroughly corrupt.

Hopefully, at some point, the bulk of the Republican base will realize that the people they are electing aren't looking out for their best interests or representing their shared morality, as many already have. The world would be a lot better for it.

I think I may have used a few derogatory terms when referring to Republicans from time to time, but implicitly, it is always the leadership that I am referring to. No offense meant to enlightened Republicans like you, Marcus, or toward the as yet unenlightened, but well meaning, bulk of Republican voters.

We must never forget that this isn't just some game of sport, or some battle between good an evil, but rather a debate about good governance and the greater goals and principles of out country. If the Republican party should ever find its way back, if it should return to its roots as the party of Teddy Roosevelt and Abraham Lincoln, if it should, one day, be more honest, and more conductive to prosperity, freedom, and general wellbeing than the Democratic party, then, on that day, you may call me a proud Republican.

[buddysmellgood]

4. I agree. My brother-in-law has always voted republican. He finally said

he was going to vote for Kerry, but in the end, he just couldn't do it. So he didn't vote. Grandma-in-law also voted for Kerry. She is an excellent barometer of how many republicans felt about Bush. For her to vote for a democrat you'd think she'd have to have seen a pig fly.
It just doesn't add up. Where did the votes for Bush come from? Every theory of where Bush's support came from has been debunked. The bible thumpers did not turn out in sufficient numbers to account for the increase. The exit polls don't match and these BBV machines belong to the republican party. It stinks big.

[k8conant]

27. Apparently some Democrats voted for Bush in West Virginia...

but I haven't met any of them. On the other hand, I was at a retired federal employees meeting last Wednesday. I was talking to another Democrat about the recount and a woman came up who I had always thought to be very Republican. She told me that this year she had changed her registration and voted for Kerry.

[Carolab]

5. Well, if that's how you all really feel, MarkusQ

have you been contacting your Republican representatives to do something about it? Have you been contacting the Republicans on the Judiciary Committee to join with Conyers?

[MarkusQ]

9. Yes. And I will again.

But you have to remember, many of them have gotten burned over the last decade or two, fighting the rise of the Neo-cons within the party. Rove & co. (and GHB's crew) fight just as dirty within the party as they do without.

--MarkusQ

[wildflower]

7. Are there any Republicans joining the effort for verified voting/recounts?

I fear this - a bipartisan effort - may be the only way to get people to listen and get something done about this. Not just for this election, but all for future votes.

[MarkusQ]

11. There are LOTS of us.

I've found Republicans more energized about this than the Democrats (but that may just be a consequence of living in a red state). The Democrats seem to mostly be saying "I can't believe we're such losers!" and the Republicans are split about 50/50 between "You are losers, deal with it! Ha! Ha!" and "No wait...that doesn't add up..."

--MarkusQ

[wildflower]

12. I'm very glad to hear this; because as much as it saddens me,

I worry the government and media will not see this movement as legitimate, will not be forced to take this seriously, unless there are Republicans on board. It's too easy for them to dismiss Dems as "sore losers," "loony left," etc.

Have any of you gone to the marches?

[MarkusQ]

22. Just got back from 51 state, with my 3 yo son (n/t)

[Old and In the Way]

18. There are Republicans and Democrats....then there's that hybrid-

criminals. None of us win when they are in charge.

I still think your going to be further marginalized in the coming years. I know Democrats have been accused of backbone issues here on DU, but I think Republicans of the sane middle are rolling over for this pResident.

If thoughtful Republicans, such as yourself, are really concerned about a future as defined by the current empowered Republican leadership, I don't know why you aren't joining us to fight this tyranny. We could change the whole agenda of this country tomorrow, if the sane faction of the Republican Party make a tactical decision to renounce their Party membership and move accross the aisle.

When we rid ourselves of this criminal cancer, you guys can return to take back your Party and we can go back tothe good old days of arguing about policy minutae. :-)

BTW, you prove that we are able to have a thoughtful dialogue with people of differing opinions. I appreciate your posting here and I hope your participation encourages others of your political persuation to join in this needed conversation. :-)

[MarkusQ]

24. That's the whole problem

Why aren't we joining you to fight this tyranny? What makes you think we aren't--the same MSM & astro-turfing trolls that tell you Bush has a mandate and even the Democrats are behind him? Aren't they the same ones that brought you "We have proof of WMD" and a thousand other lies?

If they are lying about you, and have lied about things we now know the truth of, why do you believe them about the mind of the mainstream Republican?

Try this: start talking to people about crooked politicians & corrupt government officials. Talk about people waiting for hours in the rain to vote, only to have their ballot thrown out because the poll workers knowingly lied to them. Talk about officials shredding records, locking the press out and trying to blame the FBI. Talk about trusting our democracy to computers when we don't know anything about how they are programmed or even who does it. Don't say which party you are from, don't ask which party they are from. Don't mention any candidates, don't use any of the party labels and catch phrases that we use to identify red team and blue team, just chat with people about the issues.

I live in a very red state and well over 90% of the people I do this with are right on board with it. But to hear the MSM, we're all rabid Bush fans, who'd rather kill foreigners to give them Democracy (and let our dogs sniff them while they masturbate) than worry about honest elections here at home.

I conclude that the MSM are not giving me a fair and balanced view of what is going on in our nation and I'd ask that you not judge Republicans just by what you read in the papers.

--MarkusQ

[Straight Shooter]

15. In my little town, four of my close friends are Republican

They would rather walk over broken glass than vote for bush. They have also mentioned that their family members despise, the family members also being long-time Republicans.

This is why I scoff at those who suggest that bush prevailed because the large turnout of Republican voters showed up to vote for him. In a pig's eye they did. :eyes:

[BlueCentrist]

20. All the Republicans I know

voted for Kerry.They are angry that the neocons have taken over their party.They feel the Republicans in the WhiteHouse do not represent the party very well any more.
They are just as concerned about election fraud as I am.

[jdog]

17. Go MQ!! n/t

[jamboi]

21. That's perfect! That's how we need to approach this. n/t

[eowyn_of_rohan]

6. Exactly

It seems possible (some would say probable or certain!) that some of these "red" states and "Dixiecrat" counties are of their creation and they have used their psy-ops to make us believe it. And certainly many votes were mined from heavy blue areas, too, but as long as they still let Kerry win there, there wouldn't be and urgent need to question the actual count.

[Old and In the Way]

19. That's why corporate media pushes the "Red State/Blue State"

myth. As long as they can convince us that we are divided, it deflects from the un-American activities that they are busy with: starting wars for oil, dismantling our civilrights, looting the Treasury, etc.

Obviously, that map is misleading...unless one assumes that cornfields have the same rights as people.

[merh]

16. The red states were used to increase his popular vote numbers.

They stole or padded votes in every state. I am praying that the Ohio fraud is brought to light and proven, then voters in other states might question their results. They might remember their long lines, their polling places that were closed for a few hours because they ran out of ballots, their limited voting machines, their broken voting equipment.

I am hopeful.

[corbett]

26. Many More Republicans Voted For Kerry Than Vice Versa

When examining just how far off the numbers were nationwide, let's not forget that many more Republicans voted for Kerry than Democrats voted for Bush. They were prominent, too:

http://www.backtothemainstream.org

Look at Lee Iaccoca. Look at General McPeak. I could continue. The whole process was off. Kerry won by a landslide but KKKarl Rove knew just how to throw the perfect monkey wrench into the works. 2000 taught him well. Thanks to the "Internets," though and intrepid patriots like Arnebeck, Conyers and Jackson, the truth will be told.