Kerry to Arnebeck, stop crying in your Tea Cup....

[deminflorida]

"I can't for the life of me understand why Kerry isn't fighting harder for this. Maybe it's some secret Skull and Bones tradition, where you're not supposed to show up the other guy," Arnebeck said, referring to the Yale secret society of which Bush and Kerry were both members.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-vote12dec12,0,7920965.story?coll=la-home-nation



Everyone needs to remember this when it comes time to donate to Kerry in 2008.

So let me think back now who are the prospects for 2008 that voted for the Iraq War....

Kerry
Edwards
Clinton

Want more of the same?

Then continue to back these piece of shit establishment candidates.

For me I'm going again with the General. I pray to God that Dean is allowed to take control of this dysfunctional party.

We need a Victor Yushchenko type fighter if we're ever going to seize this government from the hands of the Washington establishment. We have to draft General Clark and send fear through the spines of the Neo-Cons, and even the democratic party insiders.

Sign the petition at the following link and let the march on Washington continue.

http://www.petitiononline.com/wesclark/petition.html

If what I hope and pray comes true, and the General can find the courage to fight one more time, then we may have to hire a professional food taster for him as well. So, pledge a donation if you can because food tasters don't come cheap.


www.draft-clark.com

[catnhatnh]

1. Umm...

...Where in this post does the Kerry "quote" play in???

[Twist_U_Up]

2. amazing ..Do you have the link for Arnebecks quote ? nt

[deminflorida]

8. yeah, sorry LA Times.....

just edited....

[autorank]

3. General Clark WAS/IS/WILL BE my candidate!!! The time is now.

[Twist_U_Up]

5. ummmmm

your vote will never count .....do people not understand this ? They own our elections. They will decide what is best for you.

[Carolab]

11. Clark is tied to the Clintons

He was sent out to steal some of Dean's thunder.

No Clark.

Dean is the only one who is not "tainted", except Dennis K.

[malatesta1137]

16. thank you

Dean is the only one. Kerry was a fraud from the beginning.

[merh]

26. I put Kerry's public service over the last 30 years up against

Dean's any day of the week. You have to remember, Dean held his "vision for the future of the party" speech opposite the Conyers hearings. My opinion is he doesn't care much about the election theft if he did that. I wanted to believe Dean was the future, but he is only about Dean and his vision as was reflected by his speech conflicting the hearings. If the defense to his speech is that he had previously scheduled it and couldn't help it, that doesn't fly. He could have easily arranged to have a large screen airing the forum to his audience, then after the forum, opened his event to questions and comments, then he could have given his "vision of the future" speech. Since he did not, he is lacking in his ability to embrace the concerns of many members of the party and to recognize the main concern, the future for democracy, our election process, and not just the party.

Damn it, the party's future is not the issue. The issue is will anyone other than a repuke ever win an election again, given the repukes' crafted and multi-faceted ability to steal elections.

As often as the reports are that Kerry won't join the election fraud debates, my question is where is Clark, Kunich, Dean, et al? They supported him and I would assume they voted for him, don't they have an obligation to stand up and say that their votes and the votes of all citizens should be counted and should count for the candidate that they chose?

This is not about the party, it is about democracy. They too should stand up and be heard on the election fraud. They have an obligation to us too, that is if they still want to be considered leaders.

[Kahuna]

23. That's funny as hell. Dean tried awfully hard to be tied to the

Clintons himself.

[Carolab]

31. Excuse me?

Based on what exactly?

[kerry-is-my-prez]

51. Oh puhleeze. Clark is NOBODY'S puppet. You don't know the man.

n/t

[kerry-is-my-prez]

49. I'm with you....

I love that guy....

[Ardee]

4. I would reject your description

of those three you smear as "pieces of shit". They, unlike your own candidate, have a long history of public service as elected officials.
While I have not agreed with much of what they support in the past I do understand, a bit better than do you apparently, how things work.

This is not a suggestion that the next candidate come from any of the names you besmirch, but it is a call for a less vituperative process in selection.

[deminflorida]

10. Yeah I know, that's what I'm afraid of...

a long history of public service as elected officials.

=

Washington Insider, Establishment.

[Ardee]

20. Politics is compromise

like it or not, support it or not, understand it or not.

We are a diverse people, those elected are there to further the wishes of their constituencies, getting things through congress and into law require some objectionable actions and strange bedfellows.

I offer that Clark has never held office at any level, nor, I imagine ,have you. It is really easy to hold to a pure line, unless of course you really want something done.

I am as angry as are you at the current policies of this administration, and I reject the direction the Democrats have taken these last four years and counting. The leadership of the party cost Gore and Kerry both their rightful victories, but shame on the both of them for listening to and adhering to the neocons.

It simply does not benefit anyone , nor does it make any easier the selection of leadership within the party, to engage in besmirching those in the party with national cache......support who you will, discuss freely the flaws of those you oppose, but do so constructively if you want to make any progress....

Now as to the neocons who infest these pages,well they are fair game .....:party:

[Junkdrawer]

6. Shouldn't that be "Arnebeck to Kerry"????

or is there another quote you're referencing. :shrug:

[cindyw]

7. Show me where Kerry said that to Arnebeck or where Kerry is not

supporting the recount. If you have to criticize Kerry try to do it without making shit up.

[deminflorida]

9. Arnebeck's words....LA Times....

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-vote12dec12,0,7920965.story?coll=la-home-nation

[catnhatnh]

14. How about the Kerry/Teacup link? n/t

[Carolab]

18. Cliff

tellin' it like it is.

That Skull and Bones thing always had me worried. Made me doubt Kerry from the get-go. Sorry, but it's true. No S&B dirt on Dean.

[cindyw]

29. Okay read it. NO WHERE does it show Kerry making a comment

like that or saying a damn thing to anyone about getting over anything. You are being dishonest about this.

[OKthatsIT]

19. Somebody ought to find out the secret society's

Skull and Bones RULES on assassinations...just how far will they go?

[Chasing Dreams]

12. Do you think the Democratic Party is Hemorrhaging?

Check out this analysis:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x144542

Thanks :)

[cali]

13. This type of smear enrages me

as does the monumentally stupid skull and bones garbage. I disagreed strongly with Kerry's vote on the IWR, but he's had a long and honorable career sticking up for the right thing in government. He wasn't my first choice, but he worked diligently to win, Characterizing him as a piece of shit is outrageous. Shame on you.

[malatesta1137]

17. sticking up for the right thing in government?

when we most needed him to stick up for us, the voters, he bailed out. He's too part of the establishment. Or worse.

[merh]

28. Yeah, and so have Dean, Clark, Gephardt, et al.

Not a one of them has taken a stand and said, if I had won the primary, these crooks would have stolen it from me, so I am pissed and demand that we put an end to election fraud.

They have an obligation to us, just as Kerry does. If you are going to blame Kerry, you need to spread it around to the others.

[Carolab]

32. No.

It was Kerry's and Edwards' election.

THEY need to speak up. Not Dean or anyone else but THEM.

The DNC/DLC, including pals of Kerry's and Gephardt's, deliberately and maliciously assassinated Dean's campaign.

Dean went OVER AND ABOVE THE CALL OF DUTY supporting Kerry. You think he should keep carrying his water for him?

ENOUGH.

[merh]

37. No, not carrying the water for Kerry - carrying the water for the

party he wants to head, standing up for democracy and calling the crooks out. Not posturing himself for a position of leadership in the party if he cannot stand up and demand that the election process be corrected. Lead now, see what the most important issue is now. Embrace all members of the party and recognize that we can never win if we don't get to the bottom of the election fraud issues.

Yeah, and Dean did nothing negative to Kerry during the primaries. He played fair and was squeaky clean all throughout.

[angrydemocrat]

47. AND JUST WHERE IN THE HELL

IS YOUR DAMN CANIDATE? If you want to look at it from that point of veiw every damn one of them should have their asses out threre including your damn canidate!

WHERE THE HELL ARE ALL THESE GREAT ONES: CLARK? EDWARDS? KUCINICH? DEAN?

Why are they not out there pushing for democracy sinse they are so damn great? Why are they not backing the recounts? Why are they not fighting for voters rights? Why have all of them bailed out?

You sure as hell can't say they are fighting anything except for there own political careers. They sure as hell are not out there fighting for the recounts, voters rights, or democracy.

SO OH WELL I GUESS ALL THE GREATS AS YOU SEE HAVE BAILED OUT TO!

[seito]

50. I don't think anyone has bailed

Perhaps naive, but I think this rabbit hole goes deeper than what the general public, including us enlightened folks here at DU see. The next few days will tell much. Now is not the time for us to wallow in despair and foster feelings of abandonment. Get out and rally. Today is our day. No matter how small, make your voice heard.

Gotta go now, I have a Democracy to save. :hi:

[Name removed]

66. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[femme.democratique]

15. strange....

His mention of Skull and Bones....very strange and suspicious. Could be a smoke screen to throw the repugs off the trail now that he is getting so close to filing his case.

OR he could just be shooting from the hip. Would certainly explain why the repugs (ie KKKarl and Co.) don't seem too worried.

Didn't someone on DU state that Kerry and Arnebeck know each other from Boston and have some sort of relationship? I mean, after what Kerry said he wanted for his bday....and the evidence that Arnebeck has, I find it very hard to believe that Kerry is not involved.

[Quakerfriend]

24. Yes, femme

I heard on DU, last week, that Arnebeck and Kerry have been friends for at least 20 years....this came from someone in the know in MA. I do believe that this is a bit of a rouse. Kerry is definitely involved in what is going on, on the ground in OH.

[4democracy]

21. I am writing to the author of article in LA Times, he has got a lot

of facts wrong. #1 Jesse Jackson was not at the rally in Columbus on the 4th, #2 the electors votes are not opened until Jan 6th so there is not a winner until that time, #3,it does not take hundreds of people to steal an election. One person writing software or hacking into a central tabulator can (in seconds) change the tally for a whole STATE.

[Helga Scow Stern]

68. Thank you for writing LA Times.

That article, while at least acknowledging some concerns, was very dismissive.

It seemed almost to be a preemptive strike to try and deaden any thunder from the lawsuit tomorrow.

It was quite dismissive of Arnebeck. It did not mention that he used to be an attorney for Republicans, specifically McCain, I believe, but instead tries to quote only bits from Arnebeck's career that make people not take him seriously:
1)Perot supporter in Ohio; 2) failed candididate for Congress twice.

Makes him sound like a loser, but we know he is anything but that.

It was put out to sound like LATimes is fairly considering the challenge to the results, but instead of really having the facts, as you state above--it really makes light of all the massive disenfranchisement, etc. It flatters Blackwell. It is clearly biased reporting, propaganda, not news.

Too bad. We need to remind them of the facts, not that this reporter cares, but the Editor might.

[BlueDog2u]

22. It seems that your headline

is less than honest. Where is the quote to verify it?

[Quakerfriend]

27. It's there BlueDOg

Check back to the link.;-)

[pointsoflight]

25. Um, where's the quote from KERRY?

You give a quote from Arnebeck, but your title claims that KERRY told Arnebeck to "quit crying in your tea cup." Where is this quote, or did you make it up? And if you made it up, why the extremely misleading title?

[BlackVelvet04]

30. Clark lost my support

when he said he supported mandatory national service for all 18 - 28 (?) year olds. I don't believe in mandatory service. I believe we should pay taxes and beyond that I don't think we owe the country our lives.

[ClarkUSA]

36. Clark NEVER said that. He has always said the opposite.

You have got it backwards. General Clark is against the draft and favors an all-volunteer force. He does feel, however, that we need to expand the Army
by at least three divisions to stop the backdoor draft (a term he first used in the
primaries).

[pointsoflight]

33. Please Note: The title is BULLSHIT...Kerry is not quoted as saying that.

[Straight Shooter]

34. 2000 was then, this is now

Arnebeck ... is undeterred. If the court orders a full and thorough investigation, he said, Kerry will win. He wishes Kerry would join the fight.

"He and his people are too ready to disbelieve that Republicans could be this bad," Arnebeck said. "They are this bad. Ballot-box stuffing is an old American tradition, and they've just updated it. I'm not surprised that somebody hacked this vote."

As for this Skull & Bones nonsense, I wish someone would investigate and report on how many times S&B members have turned on one another. Look at Little Boots and his "cut their throats" mentality. Once a person sinks to that level, the other members have no responsibility to honor him at all.

I came around and supported Kerry 100 percent when my candidate, Dean, joined in supporting him. I certainly hope it isn't true that Kerry cannot imagine "that Republicans could be this bad." That would be the height of naivete. No, I think Arnebeck is taking a page from Rove's playbook: Don't look here, look there.

As for the misleading title in the thread, it caught my attention, too. The OP is calling up Kerry's "stop crying in your teacups" comment to the black coalition in the 2000 fiasco and is tying it into this year's election.

[pointsoflight]

35. The tie to this year's election is unfounded, though.

Below are the actual statements attributed to Kerry and his people from that article. None of them are even remotely close to saying "stop crying in your teacup."

From the article:

Kerry, who may be interested in running again in 2008, is walking a bit of a fine line in the matter, encouraging the recount process but dampening any expectation it will yield a political miracle.

"It's important that every vote be counted," said his spokesman, David Wade. "There's no reason to believe the outcome of the election will change."

A Democrat close to the Kerry campaign, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Kerry had received plenty of "do not make this concession" advice from party members.

"It's not just the Internet conspiracy community," said the Kerry ally. "The every-vote-counts community is very strong inside the Democratic Party, and one does not want to discourage them."

[Straight Shooter]

44. I am practicing my restraint this morning

You're absolutely right. It's an unfair, unwarranted and uncalled-for connection. Perhaps I was being too subtle in my first response :P

[jdog]

38. deminflorida - where'd the teacup stuff come from?

Please clarify or edit your post to be more correct maybe?

[Wordie]

39. HUGE flaw in Arnebeck's argument: the Skull & Bones comment is LUDICROUS

Here's the comment by Arnebeck that doesn't make sense:
<SNIP>
"I can't for the life of me understand why Kerry isn't fighting harder for this. Maybe it's some secret Skull and Bones tradition, where you're not supposed to show up the other guy," Arnebeck said, referring to the Yale secret society of which Bush and Kerry were both members.<unsnip>

Why hasn't anyone else noticed the HUGE flaw in Arnebeck's criticism of Kerry. If Skull and Bones members REALLY aren't supposed to "show up the other guy" then Kerry would not have RUN against Bush in the first place, would he? This is just silly stuff.

[femme.democratique]

42. The working theory re: Skull and Bones...

...apparently those involved in Skull and Bones represent the "framework" of the powers that control industry and government. The idea is that former grads of S&B control the reigns, including deciding who represents the establishment (Repug and Dem) in government. Hence, the theory is that those S&B members chose Kerry to run against * because they knew he'd be bound by their secret oaths.

[seito]

45. Yeah, OK

It all makes PERFECT sense now. I guess those secret oaths would allow John Kerry to throw away everything he fought for his entire life. I see now how he is united with the chimp and his quest for world domination.

Thanks for my daily dose of enlightenment

[angrydemocrat]

55. LMAO

Seito I don't know about you but it is truly amazing to me at how many dumbasses are out there still! They sit back and try to play god, judge and jury when it comes to Kerry when the reallity is they don't know their ass from a hole ground when it comes to Kerry. Because if they did they would know how ignorant there remarks really are. There is no hope for some of these people that is a fact. Hell they would argue the sky is green and the grass is purple just to hear themselves talk. :crazy:

[Wordie]

46. LOL Femme.demoqratique! So you mean that Kerry mortgaged his house,

spent almost 2 years of his life living out of hotel rooms, eating crummy food and not getting enough sleep in a grueling campaign, exposed himself personally, his reputation, and his family to scathing attacks, and he did that all the time planning to LOSE???? LOL

[Straight Shooter]

52. I don't think femme is agreeing with the "working theory"

It seems to me she's just repeating what some people believe the basis of the S&B argument is.

Little Boots was always a faux member of S&B, anyway, because everyone knew he only was tapped for membership because of his grandfather and father. He never qualified personally. If he had one iota of respect in that society, we'd be hearing about it. As it is, the collective silence from S&B about Little Boots is deafening.

[Wordie]

56. If so, my apologies, but the post isn't really clear on the issue. eom

[femme.democratique]

57. No big deal...

Its not "my" theory but a theory put together by Alex Jones and others who are critical of the role S&B plays in our society. And, I didn't say that Kerry was necessarily CONSCIOUS of the game being played....

[Wordie]

59. So, tell me clearly, are you saying you agree w/ the theory or not.

It's still appears that you are posting this because you agree with it. I also would appreciate a link to more info re: Alex Jones' comments on this.

I think there will always be those with power who want to advance their own interests, no matter what sort of system one devises. There are so many competing interests in our society, though, that I doubt that one group can exercise the sort of power that you seem to be ascribing to Skull and Bones. Or that Alex Jones is ascribing, if you are just repeating someone else's argument.

[femme.democratique]

61. Ok, whats the problem????

I'm presenting an argument. Read my post "strange" a few lines up and you should easily be able to discern my position!

If you want more info on Alex Jones' position, I suggest you watch his documentary "American Dictators"

http://www.infowars.com/dictators.htm

[Goldeneye]

40. Guys...we have 3 years before we need to worry about picking a candidate

I think regardless of wether you think there was fraud, our election system is flawed and needs reform. The 2004 plainly had voter suppression, and the laws for recounts are fuzzy enough that people like Katherine Blackwell and Kenneth Harris could screw us over again (or if you don't think they did this time, they could screw us over in the future). We need a uniform system across this country, and if their was fraud in this election we need to prove it now. Nothing is worth fighting for if it isn't our right to vote.
Lay off fighting about candidates for 2008 for awhile. Picking on Kerry, Dean, Clark, or any other 2004 democratic candidate is pretty pointless now. When we know for sure how this election is going to turn out, we need to start reforming the election system. And only after we get this country's voting system fricking fixed should we start worrying about Candidates for 2008.
I rememer before the nov. 2, we all thought Kerry was going to win, and everyone was laughing at how the rep. pundits were jumping ship. Look at the situation we have right now. Who's jumping ship? It's not the republicans. We all need to get our priorities straigtened out.

[Wordie]

54. Thank you, Goldeneye, for your hard-headed, clear-eyed post. n/t

[hlthe2b]

41. DeminFlorida: you can criticize Kerry without the misleading headlne

That quote appears NOWHERE in the article. THis is WRONG when the RW does it and equally WRONG when WE do it. Please correct your title. Otherwise this is sheer flamebait. At least 6 DUers have pointed out the erroneous quote you attribute to Kerry. Please correct!

[capi888]

48. Hear the Silence????

DO you hear any of the 2004 candidates comming out saying any words publicly about the election annomilies??? NONE O, other than we must count the votes. May not change the election, but,Its the democratic way. Think about it...silence is deafening!...NOT, Kerry,Clark,Edwards,Sharpton, Kucinish, Gep, and even DEAN this a.m.! NOTTA! They are not saying ANYTHING. Now, if you think they are not aware of what is going on...think again. Silence is GOLDEN, when you are searching the discovery of a crime, of the most powerful OFFICE in the World. The ducks have to be in order! Have you ever watched a flock of geese??? Right now, the people less hurt (Greens and Libertaians) are leading the flock...until the right time and the evidence or non-evidence is found...my 2 cents!

[seito]

53. I'll see you 2 cents and raise you a nickle. n/t

Get out and Rally DU. :bounce:

[seito]

43. The Skull and Bones Statement

Of all of the messages in that article, The Skull and Bones statement is the most telling.

Why would Arnebeck mention that? He is an attorney, and his comments are well thought out, not off the cuff. I know many here tire of "reading meaning into statements," but guess what, we are expected to think.

There has been way TOO MUCH mention from the Kerry camp and the DNC that they don't think these procedures will change the outcome of the election. There has been way TOO MANY allegations that Kerry is not involved in this fight from those that have already gone public. Ask yourself why. It could be that everything is exactly as it seems, or it could be that there is a campaign of disinformation coming from the Democratic camp. I know for many of you that believe that Democrats always tell the truth, this may come as a bit of a shock...

As far as Kerry not believing that the pugs would ever sink to this level, in his own words...

"We're going to keep pounding. These guys are the most crooked, you know, lying group I've ever seen. It's scary."

[angrydemocrat]

60. The Fact Of The Matter

Is none of these canidates have bailed out of anything. They are all good canidate's and all are part od the democratic party. They are all on the same team. To stoop to the point of calling any of them a peice of shit is disrespectful and wrong! I will admit I went overboard when I was asking where they all are. But the peice of shit remark was overboard. All of these canidates help each other, they all make mistakes, and they all are grown men that learn from those mistakes. I like all of them. Yes I have a my choice as to who I like better but that is part of politics. Just the same as others have their picks. But when someone gets makes a downright nasty remark that is uncalled for about someone else's canidate you can expect people to return the favor. You can disagree with a canidate and not like a canidate without the nasty remarks.

[myschkin]

58. Compromised by other democrats?

I've read the following:

"A Democrat close to the Kerry campaign, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Kerry had received plenty of "do not make this concession" advice from party members.

"It's not just the Internet conspiracy community," said the Kerry ally. "The every-vote-counts community is very strong inside the Democratic Party, and one does not want to discourage them."


Believe me, we need the celebs!!!

This could be our secret weapon.

Please visit our media action forum and help!

http://www.1-2-free-forums.com/mf/index.php?mforum=mtf

[pixelthief]

62. Troubling

This is somewhat troubling:

A Democrat close to the Kerry campaign, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Kerry had received plenty of "do not make this concession" advice from party members.

"It's not just the Internet conspiracy community," said the Kerry ally. "The every-vote-counts community is very strong inside the Democratic Party, and one does not want to discourage them."

They make it seem like those of us who want to count every vote belong to some fringe faction of the party. The question is, why isn't the entire party an "every-vote-counts community"?

This is why Dean is our only hope as DNC chair.

[pointsoflight]

65. I read that as us being an important part of the base. n/t

[pixelthief]

67. Me, too

Me, too. But part of the base? Who the hell doesn't want every vote to count? Who are these worthless fucks that make up the rest of the base?

We need to purge these people from our ranks.

[femme.democratique]

63. I just got banned from FR.com after ONE post...what COWARDS the freeps are

Took them about 1 minute to ban me....pretty funny, what cowards the freepers are....

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1299790/posts?page=1

My post was (as GOP-cowgirl) note the intentional misspelling:

"Hi I'm new here but I want to talk to likeminded folks because I am very worried about this recount. I'm hearing alot of noise from friends and relatives in Ohio and some of the stuff they are telling me is really serious and it looks like Blackwell has really screwed up and is going up the river in handcuffs! Apparently there is evidence in OH that makes Florida look like childs play that isn't being discussed publically because the Dems think Republicans want to use any means possible to discredit the info. I am very worries that our great leader Bush may not be around very long even though he may have nothing to do with any supposed wrongdoing. I mean, what if there is something to the fraud angle? Why are so many so reluctant to treat it as a possibility? Are we as a party immune to corruption?"

[New Earth]

64. lol

[angrydemocrat]

69. LOL

I needed a good laugh right about now.

[Moderator]

70. Locking.......

This post is misleading. Please feel free to
repost with the correct title of the article.
If you have links to what Kerry said, please
include them too.