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smartvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-04 11:18 AM
Original message
WA Recount Update
Edited on Mon Dec-13-04 11:28 AM by smartvoter
Rossi gained 28 as of latest update.

http://vote.wa.gov/general/recount_resultsbycounty.aspx

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rjbny62 Donating Member (203 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-04 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
1. Rossi has GAINED 28 more votes in the recount, he is not up by 28
Rossi is leading by 29,670 votes at this stage, but they have only counted about 12% of the votes. Wait for King to report!
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smartvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-04 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Fixed it -- was sloppy... nt
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kitp Donating Member (182 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-04 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. 29,670?
Where did you get that number?

The totals prior to recount were:

Gregiore - 1,371,153
Rossi - 1,371,414

Which gave Rossi a 261 vote lead.


The results are of the machine recount were:

Gregiore - 1372442
Rossi - 1372484

Which cut the Rossi lead to 42 votes.


So far, on the manual recount, Rossi has gained 28 more votes than Gregiore taking his total lead to 60 votes.

Or am I reading the website wrong?

Link
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smartvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-04 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Both are right.
The 29k is based on the manual recount totals so far. However, they way you are looking at it, which is the net difference compared to the 42-vote deficit provides relevance.
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bemis12 Donating Member (594 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-04 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. That one column on the site
Indicates a corrected total only for those counties that have finished their recounts. Rossi does lead by the 29,000 in those counties only.

That's not a real meaningful number, and "increase of 60" is the best way to report it.
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progressiveboston Donating Member (101 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-04 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
6. Come on King County!!!
That is where you'll see the major changes.
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rjbny62 Donating Member (203 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 08:38 AM
Response to Original message
7. good news - previously rejected King County Absentee Ballots are now valid
561 ballots in a county that Gregoire won with 59% of the vote. This should tranlsate into a gain of 100 votes.

Ballots Wrongly Denied in Wash. Gov. Race
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=536&e=3&u=/ap/20041213/ap_on_re_us/washington_governor_s_race
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keepthemhonest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. this is good news
now so if we win this senate race then do we have the maj in the senate?
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. This is the race for GOVERNOR of Washington n/t
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life_long_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. Governor not Senator. n/t
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keepthemhonest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. ok
thanks straight shooter and life long dem,my mistake.

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rjbny62 Donating Member (203 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
12. Gregiore picking up votes at a slightly higher rate
if things continue at the current rate, Gregiore will pick up about 691 and Rossi 689, before they count the 561 ballots that should favor Gregiore.
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smartvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
13. Latest -- Rossi has gained 64. nt
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keepthemhonest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. have you heard anything about the alaska senate recount? n/t
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smartvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. No. Maybe someone here knows. nt
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keepthemhonest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. thankyou n/t
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smartvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. This was on another thread by borealowl :
Edited on Wed Dec-15-04 02:09 PM by smartvoter
Hi! I'm in Alaska. The recount here is going well. There is so far no "dirt" as referred to in the last post.

We had some conflicting reports about this previously, but apparently, according to the explanation given in responses to questions as the recount was getting underway, the vendor does none of our actual election programming. We have a state employee who was hired through a competitive process, not a political appointee, who designs the ballots and programs our Diebold Accu-vote memory cards. He has been present at the recount, troubleshooting and available to answer observers' questions.

Diebold supplies the machines but, we are told, has no access at any point to our server or our memory cards. The elections people are adamant about this being true and seem proud of their independence. Alaska also prints its own ballots.

We have a bi-partisan statewide bi-partisan review board which signs off on each memory card after running it through tests they devise, and then regional bi-partisan boards review the cards again in the machines that will actually take them. There are seals and vaults and an effort to make sure that nobody else has access to the card or machines.

The elections division chief by law resolves questions about ballots that the machine can't count. She does this in view of the people operating the machine as well as observers, using guidelines that seem fairly cut and dried. The voters for example are instructed to fill out the ovals. A few of them make circles around the candidate's name instead, which are not detectable by the machines. Cards with circles but no filled in ovals are not counted, by law, which is alarming when you first see such a card rejected, because the voter's intent seems clear. (Cards with a circle AND a filled-in oval ARE counted, as are cards with an X in the oval but not completely filled in.)

I was told that in a very close contest, a ballot for example which has been rejected but has the name circle could be contested, and come before a judge, who would be able to rule on voter intent without being limited to using just the state guidelines. In an election which is not terribly close, this sort of thing theoretically should come out in the wash if you assume that some voters from each party are going to ignore the instructions, which are clear.

The recount involves reprogrammed cards being run through different machines. Hand counted precincts are being counted by at least three people at a table, and they can't all be from the same party. If the vote is off by even one, they are asked to count again.

Some people still have some suspicions and are worried that we may not be looking in the right places. At any rate, we have turned up nothing anonomalous as of yet. It is hard to watch everything and to know what to watch, as we are novice observers, most of us. There are 20 machines going, and a separate room for hand counting.

The 10% of hand counted precincts were randomly selected (by us, from a hat), one from each of the 40 districts and one from each region, making 44 (the elections people came up with this scheme and I like it; it means that no major regions are somehow missed. They also agreed to exclude the 35% of previously hand counted districts from the hat, which means in effect that we got 15% of all machine counted districts hand counted, very good statistically.)

Normally their procedure is to do recounts entirely by machine; the elections division accommodated our request for hand counts however. Their goal, as stated to me, is to be open and try to allay suspicions that way. This also has something to do with our decision to be very polite with them and avoid making them feel defensive. I would recommend this kind of dialogue to elections people (and to the people challenging them), across the country. (Of course, if you really ARE dealing with corrupt elections divisions or with ego-invested people who know deep at heart, for example, that the touchscreen computers they purchased without thinking all this through really were not the best idea, it's a whole different ballgame.)

As I've mentioned before, this PROCESS was put in place by our last lieutenant governor, Fran Ulmer,who ran the department as she does everything - thoughtfully and meticulously. We were one of two states to get an A+ from Common Cause for the way we ran our election in 2000. She was defeated in the 2002 governor's race by Frank Murkowski, and her successor as lieutenant governor, Loren Leman, sure hasn't done as well in the public relations department (if you want to know more about this, go to Juneauempire.com, click on archives, click on Oct. 24 on the calendar, click on "Opinion" and look at their editorial.)

However, his appointed head of the elections division, Laura Glasier, is doing fine, in my book. For one thing, she responded to complaints about our new touchscreen computers (for handicapped people) by mothballing them, at least for now. In spite of buying them, she didn't invest her ego in them, like some elections officials in other states apparently did. I've talked to her fairly extensively now and she strikes me as having integrity.

I speak as someone who is not convinced by any means that the 2004 presidential election was won fair and square, let alone the 2000 election. I talk to people - I talked to people in Florida. Sometimes you find out things...sometimes you don't. Juneau is not Tallahassee, that's the long and the short of it!!

I was concerned that Alaska would be a tempting target because of its Senate race being so close, and wondered where the weaknesses in our system were. I never suspected our elections officials or candidates themselves of foul play. But like many of you, I don't trust the vendor, its connections to one candidate, or its proprietary ways. However, as mentioned, their role in Alaska seems to be limited to repairing machines and sending software updates. As I understand it, the underlying software tells the machines how to detect marks. But our local programmer tells the machines how to interpret those marks - as a Knowles vote or a Murkowski vote, for example.

Other states can learn from this. To be as independent as possible, not to accept Diebold or other vendors programming their cards - that would be one step toward allaying citizen suspicions. And these optical scan systems are clearly better, at least when used intelligently - there's no reason to adopt touchscreen computers. They're easier to mess with, even when supplied with paper trails. There are other solutions for handicapped people. Here's one, for example: http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/041101/15164_1.html .

So, to sum up: this is an educational process and worth going through even if we find nothing major wrong. It hatched a group called Alaskans for Fair Elections, and it may be our enviable job in Alaska to be watchdogs trying to avoid any kind of gradual corruption of an apparently decent process, as opposed to struggling to adopt a decent process. One of our objectives is to identify any problem spots in the process and to talk to them about it. I'd like for them for example to adopt a regulation requiring a random hand recount of a statistically significant number of precincts.

But it will be surprising if we find pools of 561 absentee ballots that weren't counted, as in Kings County. Absentee ballots are examined in an open process with observers present, and voters whose ballots are excluded for any reason are supposed to be notified.

Anyway, tell me if you can think of a way anyone could hack this system as described! So far, so good?????????
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Great job, SmartVoter
It's comforting to know that things apparently went smoothly here, even though we may not have liked the results. I agree with you completely on Fran. I was vacationing in California the night she lost the governor election, and I cried when I heard. A very bright light, indeed.
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keepthemhonest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. thanks for finding that
i have been lookng all day for info on it.Although I was hoping the outcome would be different.
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Kralizec Donating Member (982 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
20. Thanks for keeping this updated. Hope things break soon... n/t
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smartvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
21. Latest: Rossi gained 70. n/t
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bemis12 Donating Member (594 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
22. The newest totals: Rossi gains 79
Edited on Wed Dec-15-04 08:05 PM by bemis12
Only the four largest counties are yet to report. Rossi won three of those by small margins. King County is where all the action should be.
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