Calm THE HELL down guys

[New Earth]

The contest and recount can still go forward, they were just trying to stop the electoral votes for Ohio today to make it a little easier.

If the recount and/or contest have significant impact and can change the outcome of the election, the second slate of electors will be sent to Congress. Then they can either vote for a FRAUDULENT outcome, or the legal outcome.

I know most here know this, but some to be flipping their lids thinking we are doomed after the electoral college cast their votes today.

[demnan]

1. We are doomed

Nothing is going to change that.

[New Earth]

2. WHATEVER

[jamboi]

8. No way. n/t

[pbartch]

23. stop with the negativity

[Truman01]

31. I tend to agree with you.... The best that will happen...

short of a finding of fraud nationwide is that the Ohio electors will be thrown out (a very unlikely step). That would leave us losing the EC by 266 to 252. I don't see any hope, and going to the I believe thread is like smoking dope to get away from reality. I'm sorry but that is the way I see it.

TC

[k8conant]

64. NO NO NO in a contest Kerry will win Ohio...

that is the best that will happen.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Must_B_Free]

57. We're all going to die!

And NOTHING can change that!

(I never said when...)

[crispini]

3. agree,

:kick:

Keep this kicked, people, it's important.

[InvisibleTouch]

4. I'm not so worried about the electors...

...as long as the recounts go forward.

[Straight Shooter]

5. There you go again, Faye, being reasonable

Don't you know how UPSETTING that is to some DU members?

:P

[pointsoflight]

6. Exactly, thank you.

It would've been nice to stop today's electoral votes from being cast, but it wasn't expected to happen. What happens between now and Jan 6 is what's key.

[Wordie]

17. Well, it would be nice if somebody would SAY that it wasn't expected! LOL

Instead, I heard all these threads talking about the Arnebeck suit's intention of preventing the seating of the electors. If you have RELIABLE information about the Arnebeck suit suggesting otherwise, please post a link explaining the content and intent of the Arnebeck suit. And I agree that caution is the wise way to approach all of this. The problem is the lack of information. Thanks!

[keepthemhonest]

7. I think faye is right

hawaii had that happen when kennedy and nixon ran against each other.Nothing was supposed to hapen today except formalities, Arnebeck files the law suit and other great stuff like that, but that is just the beginning.

[saddemocrat]

9. the reason that we are doomed

is that 1. the democratic party never managed to grow any balls and 2. the mainstream media has kept this quiet.

If I even mention the 'voter fraud' issue to friends of mine they look at me like I need meds. It is too late to sway public opinion and even if discrepancies are uncovered, the repubs know that they 'have it in the bag'. There will be plenty of excuses and since most of the american public hasn't spent time and money investigating this issue they are not invested in the issue itself.

[Doohickie]

11. Calm down and get a shot of relaxation in the I BELIEVE! thread

[Wordie]

19. Some of us (me) have computers that freeze on threads over 200 replies.

[BrotherBuzz]

33. And dial-up to boot...LOL

What the heck is that thread about, anyway? :)

[Wordie]

35. LOL, all the mystery threads! I wonder if people think we *don't* believe

if we don't participate. And they must wonder why our replies take so long at times. Or why we miss certain bits of info floating around!

[New Earth]

14. IT'S NOT VOTER FRAUD

IT'S ELECTION FRAUD.


geezus fukkin kryst!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@&#%@^#%^$%^@%^#%@&#%&*%^#%8

[frictionlessO]

28. I've been informing people of this correct phraseing lately Faye! Seems

to have some weird effect on people. They get more interested for some reason... go figure!

Keep the faith and fight till that fat f*ck sings people!!

[angrydemocrat]

58. LOL

You Go Faye!! You got it going today LOL. I havn't seen you be as outspoken as you have today LOL. Its great. You are in one of those "BRING IT ON" moods today. I hope more people get that way soon!

[Quakerfriend]

15. This may be true

But, now that Kerry has truly gotten involved. Let's all hope that he comes out publicly........like on the floor of the Senate, that would be sweet......This will get their attention and bring it into the MSM, or atleast allow them to talk about it now!

[bunny planet]

37. I actually think that's what will happen, Kerry will be the senator that

signs on with Congress on January 6th protesting the reading and final certification of the electors. Call me delusional, I don't give a f**k.:crazy:

[bush_is_wacko]

47. Will HIS signature be allowed?

I sure as hell hope he isn't the ONLY signature!

[bunny planet]

51. I think so and I also hope he isn't the only one. His stepping up would

have tremendous effect though. That would get the MSM to cover it that's for sure. I think he legally can sign on. Wasn't that the critcism of Gore, that as president of the Senate, with the deciding vote, he did not sign on to contest the electors certification?

[bush_is_wacko]

53. Yes, but

NOBODY signed! If Kerry signs alone, I think the MSM will eat him alive! PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE let another Senator sign along with Kerry and Edwards!

[demnan]

25. Thank you

for seeing the truth.

[Vidar]

39. Maybe not the democrats we wanted, but John Conyers & co,

are putting on a dammed impressive effort.

[Search Party]

10. here, here

patience is a virtue...a virtue the DU usually lacks.

thanks, faye

where's that drive-thru for democracy?

[rockedthevoteinMA]

24. Here guys read this quote Elizabeth Edwards posted for us

Thomas Jefferson:
”A little patience, and we shall see the reign of witches pass
over, their spells dissolve, and the people, recovering their true
sight, restore their government to its true principles. It is true
that in the meantime we are suffering deeply in spirit, and incurring
the horrors of a war and long oppressions of enormous public
debt…If the game runs sometimes against us at home we must
have patience till luck turns, and then we shall have an opportunity
of winning back the principles we have lost, for this is a game
where principles are at stake.”

From this thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

It's huge...but I think we all need to read it right now. :hi:

[dalloway]

67. thanks for reposting that quote

I needed that little boost today. That quote is what I hang on to most when I start to doubt that truth and justice will win in the end.

Then I go post again on the I believe thread.

[keepthemhonest]

68. I cannot get that link to work

can you tell me where it is located?I would love to read it

[Kellis]

48. LOL

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has-Margaret Mead.

First they ignore you......

[seito]

12. This has been carefully planned

Arnebeck filed today for a reason. Have a little faith.

[Verve]

13. Agree with Faye! If Arnebeck thought it was truly essential to stop

today's electors he would have definitely filed last week, not two hours before the event.

[crispini]

21. agree

:kick:

[pointsoflight]

30. Exactly. This was planned folks.

Arnebeck's lawsuit has been ready for a week. It was intentionally delayed until now.

Why? Stopping the electoral vote was not essential and Arnebeck knew that his lawsuit was much more likely to get media attention if filed today, when everyone is reporting on the election.

There's a reason why Conyer's hearings, and Arnebeck's lawsuit, and Kerry's letter are all coming on the exact day that the electoral votes are being case, don't you think?

[Truman01]

34. I totally agree with that, but I don't think he is trying to reverse the

election. I think he is trying to draw attention to the fraud and possibly discredit *. Reversing this election at this point is like stopping a falling meteor. I know some of you think that is negative thinking, but it isn't. It would do more damage to our process to stop the election now than to let it happen and find whatever we find later. Believe me, if Bush is implicated (big if) in a voting fraud scheme he will be impeached even by Republicans.

TC

[EFerrari]

16. Faye is right. This is what they did last time, act as if they were

legit. This time, we know it's a charade. So, take names for the indictments. Some of the people on this tape may end up in jail. Think of it as watching the evidence in advance.

[ooglymoogly]

18. if they vote for a fraudulent election bushe's presidency is

doomed as a fraud and the pug owned press and their talking head circle jerks become exposed as what they are, propaganda and that is a good thing... not the best but a good thing...its a damn good start

[sabra]

20. Thanks, and good point!

While it would have been nice to drop the bomb today, it was never really likely to happen... The weeks to come are when things will get interesting...

[crispini]

22. Oh, and also. Don't respond to negative threads!

It just fuels the fire!

[corky44]

27. I was at the Sacto rally yesterday and

a CA elector said something like " wouldn't it be great if something
big happened tomorrow? I can't say what but stay close to your news source"

My opinion was that the process of State Electors acting may not be so smooth.

[Wordie]

29. I hope you don't think threads asking legitimate questions are negative.

Do you? Because the problem with people going off the deep end here sometimes is because they don't have enough information, or they have wrong information, and then people come by and fan the flames. Like when everyone was convinced that Olbermann was fired. So the questions are GOOD to ask, imho. Don't you think?

[crispini]

40. To be perfectly honest, when there are 10 threads that are all

freakin out on the SAME TOPIC on the front page, I'm all, "Yes, let's don't respond to those." Posters need to learn to chill a little bit and read some other threads BEFORE posting. Yes, it's gonna happen but IMO, let's let most of the negative stuff drop off. There is a lot of disrupting going on and I hate to see the bulk of the threads on the front page of the forum with a negative spin rather than as questions or as statements. Just my two cents. :shrug:

[txindy]

43. Excellent point, crispini

It's been useful, though, skimming all of these threads (positive and negative) and knowing exactly which names to place on the 'Ignore' list. Subtlety is a lost art, it seems. That's fine. My Ignore list was getting kind of thin. I went through it and found out that more than half of the posters on it had been Tombstoned (Gee, what a surprise!). :evilgrin:

[Wordie]

45. Well, please someone, let me know if you think it's unreasonable to post

the following question: "OH electoral college coverage on CSPAN now: where is Arnebeck suit???" (it was words to that effect). You see, if much of what has been on here for some time now has been all about how the Arnebeck suit was going to ask for an injunction to stop the electoral college in OH from selecting the * electors, and in the morning I read that Arnebeck HAS filed his suit, but then later I see on CSPAN that OH is going ahead and selecting the electors, then I want to know what the hell is going on and what to expect and whether the suit was simply unsuccessful or... etc. etc.

Do people object to this? Because, I'll admit it right here, when I hear something here at DU that gets my hopes up, but then it just doesn't happen, yet people get annoyed at me or any other DUer who does nothing more than ask the question about WHY it didn't happen, or expresses frustration or disappointment that it didn't happen, I get even more grumpy.

You may be not directing your comments at me, I realize. And I apologize for this mini-rant, but its bad enough to get ones hopes up and have them dashed, but then to have people SUPPOSEDLY on the same side criticize one for one's disappointment in such a situation, well, frankly, that is just too much and seems very insensitive on the part of the criticizer.

AND fyi, I have spent the last several months posting info that I've found here on DU to other forum(s), in an effort to spread the word. I've gotten very badly bashed by neocons and others who ridicule the very mention of election irregularities, not to mention fraud. This may be why the attitude of those here at DU who won't even tolerate questions is so hard to take.

OK, I'm done now.

[crispini]

52. Well, I mean, obviously, post what you want.

It's a free society. (Edit: Sort of but not really, heh.)

Your answer *is* already lying around in bits and pieces on several threads. Basically, if you read the AP story -- there were several links to it -- it says the request to delay the electoral meeting today was denied, but that doesn't mean the story is over.

Here's Will Pitt's take:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x149901

And, as far as the "expressing negativity" thing, unfortunately, hearing it just gets old. IMO expressing negativity is different from asking a question, which certainly is legit.

Just my two cents worth -- HTH.

[Wordie]

55. Thanks, crispini, for your reply. :)

[weeve]

26. Coffe and tea being served...

..after the final vote. Don't forget the Grape Kool-aid !

Blackwell, you sure are one funny guy.

[Quakerfriend]

32. I must be going crazy

Because I kept hoping for some crazy nut to break into the room and handcuff Blackwell! Oh people, help me calm down!

[HEAVYHEART]

38. hahaha!

You're not the only one. :pals:

[Karenca]

41. Me too! nt

[saracat]

42. Thanks Faye. I needed a summary. I was confused!

[George W. Hayduke]

44. hafta start a permanent thread

called "Kerry's Kids" --

with the emphasis on 'Kids'.....

the way some in here behave like these issues are some highschool homecoming election.

I understand that feelings about our commander-in-thief run high, but jeez.....get a grip.

We're dealing with seasoned, powerful professionals here on both sides and very serious allegations and historical implications. THE KIND THAT START CIVIL WARS.

You think that IF election fraud is proved and/or IF it is proved that Kerry really did win Ohio that repuglickinazis are just gonna roll over and justice will prevail??? Although I believe the majority of americans DO NOT believe that * won either of these elections, there is a serious apathy problem (keep up the good job of pressuring the MSM) AND that's not to speak of deepening divisions between the RW and LW factions.

Read some history. These are DEEP waters, kids.

[IndyPriest]

46. Find the "Remember Watergate" threads and read thru

those babies again. MANY parallels here. Lack of media attention. A war on. People falling asleep. No one can imagine going after a sitting president. Same values bullshit. Same attacks on "liberals." etc. etc. These guys only have one script. And Bush isn't nearly as smart as Nixon. We've done this before!

[intheflow]

50. Yes... and no.

I agree with your premise that there are many parallels, but:

Cheney is as smart as Nixon.
Nixon didn't have control of all three executive branches.
There is no draft with this war so the outrage is much lower.

All that being said, though, I think:

These people are impeachable, even with majority control over government. When it really starts hitting the fan, they won't be able to blame the Democrats, so they'll turn on each other.

Here's hoping, anyway! :hi:

[IndyPriest]

59. Points well taken (except that...

there aren't "three EXECUTIVE branches", of course.) ;-)

I was just remembering how slow Watergate was to get any attention at all. I think the timeline shows that from break-in to resignation was - what - four years?! We think we've had a tough four years already, and we have. But what I'm just suggesting is that we pace ourselves for a LONG haul.

[intheflow]

60. You caught me having a senior moment!

D'oh!

And I know what you mean about the long haul. We are such an instant gratification culture, we have no patience. Instant pudding, instant karma, jiffy lube and drive-thru windows at fast food shacks. But ya gotta acknowledge, Dubya would try the patience of a saint! ;)

[IndyPriest]

62. Amen! and you know one of the truly

odd things about all this that W's probably going to help some of us become saints!

[George W. Hayduke]

49. maturity kick

[McCamy Taylor]

54. calm down...but stay mad

[Scout1071]

56. I think every Blue Senator out there put his/her ass on the line and sign

for the will of the American People. We need to come up with a clear, concise "education" for our friends and family. There is so much info out there and we KNOW Americans have a somewhat short attention span. In other words....we need some sound bites that they will understand. When they get the big picture.......the will of the people must be done.

[greatscott15]

61. Sorry, but it's over folks.

I am depressed, and all the wishful thinking here today is not cheering me up. I am a "hopeful realist" I guess. Wish Kerry or ABB had won, but unfortunately it didn't happen. Maybe there was vote fraud or not. We will never know gang. The MSM is usually on our side, so since they are not talking about this, it is going nowhere.

There may have been some fraud, but I find it hard to believe there could be enough to change 3.5 million votes. And to pull it off and have enough people stay quiet about it. In this information age, things get out quickly.

I am afraid we are just going to have to live with 4 more years of Bush. And I for one, think it is time to move on past this election. We need to be focusing on 2008. Even if some fraud were found, no one will care 4 years from now. My guess is if there was fraud, there was probably some on both sides. (please don't shoot the messenger)I am concerned that we are still stuck not only on this 2004 election, but the real issue is we can't get over 2000.

Regardless of what wrongs may have been done in the past, we gotta move forward. If we don't, people will just begin to think we are the "sour grapes" party. We will continue to have trouble winning future elections.

I am probably in the minority, but I am resolved to this. Did enough crying over the last 5 weeks or so. Today, means the hurdles to overcome this just grew by 1000%. So I am going to start working my friends and community right after the holidays to regain the WH and congress in 2008.

[Democrat Dragon]

63. The last time the MSM was on our side was

20 years ago.

and BTW if we all get over this, Democracy will cease to exist in Amerika and it will be full speed ahead for the evil Neo-clowns.

[distantearlywarning]

66. Ok, I understand why you feel this way, but...

If there was fraud in 2004, what makes you think there won't be fraud in 2008? All the work that you are going to start doing over the holidays won't count for shit if they steal the votes again.

Perhaps you should start looking into spending your energy working to fix transparency in voting issues instead of advising the rest of us to get over it. Just a thought...

[Democrat Dragon]

65. And let's put pressure

on those who are thinking of NOT signing it! And pour a bucket of guilt over those are contemplaiting not signing it.