If Arnebeck had proof of the real 'fire' and not just more 'smoke'

[pleiku52cab]

why didn't he file his suit 2 weeks ago when he started popping up all over the place. He seems very earnest, but so are many others who are now being classified as tin hats. Come on Cliff - where's the beef

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

1. There is a chess game going on here.

Not Whack-A-Mole.

[Stephanie]

6. When do we get to see the Complaint?

Shouldn't it be available by now?

[jamboi]

8. Maybe a lawyer or paralegal among us can track it down. n/t

[pleiku52cab]

21. thanks - that is what I was asking in my roundabout way

We've all seen the maps and graphs. We've all heard the horror stories about the voting lines and lack of machines in Democratic precincts. We've all read about the odds and percentages. We've all heard about the hacking and/or pre rigging of the black boxes. Not to us but to the majority of our country it is still all sour grapes and all 'smoke'. Arnebeck kept claiming he had the real 'fire'. I'm a hard core believer in the FRAUD that happened in this election but, show me the beef - only then can we convince the rest of America.

[Career Prole]

15. LOL!

The administration, on the other hand, has a distinct fondness for Whack-a-Mole over the more cerebral diversions. ;)

[IndyOp]

18. Darn!

I really like whack-a-mole!

:-)

[EFerrari]

22. Right! I was thinking today, during the farce, that there are

advantages to letting the electors go ahead and vote.

The down side is, you're now going to fight perception, "it was a fine election".

The up side is, well, maybe some people will start to relax, and not pay so much attention to the whole thing, if you know what I mean.

Opportunities may be created.

[CatWoman]

37. I love it when you talk dirty

:D

[Malikshah]

40. Enough w/ the frikking chess metaphors

they're tired, old, stale and useless.

Here's a though-- go watch the musical Chess and realize--in the end everyone's destroyed. There are no real winners.

Enough w/ the pseudo-intellectual mental masturbation.

I wish folks would go stroke their collective goatees elsewhere and let the rest of us alone.

:)

[fairyduster]

2. I will just assume that you don't know how it works

:think:

[jamboi]

14. There have been a number of posts that explained the whole timing thing.

From what I understand it boiled down to when the legal claim was strongest to file and collecting the evidence. You can write him. I have and he was kind enough to respond. [e-mail]

[troubleinwinter]

20. jamboi,

might you share his response, so we don't needlessly clog his inbox?

[jamboi]

27. Yes, if I'd asked him about that I surely would. I guess I could write

him and ask. There were so many posts about this and I didn't really keep up on it, so I'm a little reluctant to bother him without having done some research. Lets first see if someone else has a good response. Ok?

[stella2cat]

3. dupe from error

[stella2cat]

4. ever heard where there's SMOKE there's FIRE??

[Freddie Stubbs]

5. He is a former REPUBLICAN congressional candidate and Perot supporter

Perhaps his agenda is not our agenda

[read the law first]

9. Sorry to be dense, but who is "he" in your post? n/t

[TexasChick]

10. Arnebeck. n/t

[read the law first]

31. Arnebeck was a repug candidate?????!!!!!! WTF??????!!!!!!!

Did I miss that post or have I been asleep?

Just what in the heck is going on here?!

[TexasChick]

32. A DUer from Mass. said the Arnebeck and Kerry have been tight for

20 years. But, that's just rumor. This is still a non-partisan organization he is filing the lawsuit under though. Don't know if this helps? :shrug:


I personally don't think Arnebeck likes the Chimp or the neocons. Just speculating though...

[read the law first]

34. I remembered that. Thanks. That's what got me confused.

How has a repug been a close personal friend of President Kerry for twenty years?

[TexasChick]

36. Sorry, this is another one of those rumor has it. Kerry, I hate to say,

is "High Society". Everyone knows that and we don't hold that against him, but this is what helped him to get friends in high places just like the Chimp and the BFEE. Remember, both have an abundance of wealth and friends with "clout".

[read the law first]

38. Money makes stranger bedfellows than politics? and money plus..

... politics makes even stranger yet?

Thank you for your response. It's freaking me out a little but I'll trust you.

[TexasChick]

41. I look at it this way, it probably won't change the outcome of the

fraudection, but this will definitely open up to voter reform and probably some indictments here and there. Probably not the Chimp though. Probably public constituents and Diebold workers.

[read the law first]

45. so far "justice" has meant "just us"

We certainly are feeling the hand of the enemy government.

[TexasChick]

47. read the law first, I would laugh if this weren't so true. Just a shame!

God help this once great nation to gain her glory once again!

[Viktor Runeberg]

39. Ohio Republicans

Despite the current state of the Reptile Party in OH, there's a long tradition of liberal Republicans there too, for instance John Galbraith, long-time representative from south of Toledo, who after retirement headed Republicans for Abortion and most recently endorsed Kerry - but definitely a Republican to his bones. Lots of others of that sort in the state.

[pleiku52cab]

12. Arnebeck

[4democracy]

7. These things take time, gotta cross all the t's and dot all the i's

It would be terrible if they rushed into it, then blew it on some technicality.

[Straight Shooter]

11. Why ask us? Write to him.

I don't know the web site URL, but it's the Alliance For Democracy.

As for me, it's nothing unusual to see a lawyer gather as much evidence as possible before filing suit.

[IAMREALITY]

16. I'm With Ya Straight

I just hope some fool doesn't take your advice above and actually have the gall to send Arnebeck some nasty letter because they so selfishly are too impatient to let things go the course that they must, or think they know better than someone as competent as Arnebeck.

I'm gettin sick of some people so quickly turning on our best fighters. It's incredibly foolish.

[IndyOp]

19. IAMREALITY -

Thanks... There is a difference between doubt, critical thinking, and criticism.

:eyes:

[IAMREALITY]

23. There is also a difference between

concern, and sheer stupidity.

:eyes:

[ColoradoDemocrat]

44. people who want instant gratification/answers n/t

[righteous1]

13. All I know is the lawsuit was filed 2 hours before the slate

of electors voted. This is no dumb man, certainly he would have known that the Ohio Supreme Court would not "act" on his submission before the vote took place. Now it is academic, the only body that can effect the outcome is the US Congress. All judicial actions are moot at least as far as the election is concerned. Something just doesn't add up

[jamboi]

28. No, that is not accurate. The court is definitely still in play. Many

posts on this elsewhere.

[righteous1]

29. I have read Ohio state law @ Moritzlaw.com at least 5 times

The only thing the courts can do at this point is indict individuals. I would be happy to discuss this if you believe you have any Ohio statute to refute my contentions

[read the law first]

35. righteous1, you've been the most consistently correct of anybody.

People who actually read the law are a breath of fresh air.

[righteous1]

42. Thanx RTLF. There is one possibility ,that is if the recount

was to overturn the results showing JK got more votes, a petition to SOS Blackwell for a new slate of electors could be drafted and he would be pressured to submit these new electors to the The US House of Reps who would vote to accept or not

[read the law first]

46. correct. see e g Hawaii 1960.

As usual, you are absolutely correct.

[seabeyond]

17. i thought they couldnt until a period for original count to be done

isnt that what everyone was waiting for?

[righteous1]

25. No, not at all. He could have submitted the suit anytime.

I have a theory and it's not great news if it's true. If his evidence was interesting but not compelling enough to move a court it would make sense for him to wait till the last minute first because it would not give the court time to evaluate it. If they couldn't evaluate it in time they couldn't pass judgement and come down "against" the submission or the other option they would rule the evidence "moot" and also avoid an adverse judgement

[buddysmellgood]

43. More and more is coming out each day. I think he waited because

new information was coming in all the time and he wanted to make the strongest case possible. Would you go to court the day before you thought important information would come to light?

[IndyOp]

24. The worst case scenario, I think would be if he had taken it to court too

early and it had been dismissed. The Ohio Supreme Court may still decide they don't have jurisdiction to rule, but at least he wasn't laughed out of court. The case has strengthenend dramatically in the past week. We can still aim to contest the election on Jan 6th and, since, I had pretty much settled on that as a best case scenario a few weeks ago I experienced only a few moments of despair today when I heard that the Ohio electors had met and cast their votes (with accompanying 'jokes' from Sickwell).

:mad:

[YNGW]

26. Smoke & Mirrors

It seems pretty obvious that not many Democrats consider there to be any voter fraud in Ohio. I haven't seen any real indication that the party leaders believe there was any fraud. The protests certainly didn't draw out hardly anyone.

So why make an issue of it at all if you're the Democratic party leaders? In order to appease the few. So, in 2006 & 2008 the party leaders will be able to say they tried.

Will their current attempts satisfy some who believe their was fraud? Sure it will. Others won't believe they tried hard enough but will vote Democratic anyway. Some will become disgusted and leave. It's a numbers game. The question is where is the break-even point? In other words, where is the point where money spent in order to demonstrate you tried satisfy enough of this minority for the upcoming elections, yet to spend anymore will not win over a significant number of those who are on the fence and thinking about leaving anyway?

[IndyPriest]

30. YN: you might be right..

and if you are, no Dem will ever receive my vote again. But, I have to also say that I don't think they're that far gone. Or, if they are, what holds your hopes? Another party?

[bunny planet]

48. Does anyone ever entertain the possibility that Kerry, and the Dems, at

least the DNC and the corporate Dembots like them, are not on the same page. Perhaps those Dems don't see anything in it for themselves to get Kerry into office, even if they know or suspect fraud on the part of *. Better for them in 2008, without Kerry as an incumbent. I've always thought quite a number of them skulked away for this reason. The only impetus for them to even make a gesture about counting all the votes is because enough people, myself included, have written them letters threatening to never give them another dime in any other election, unless they do something exhibiting some balls about this one. Just a thought.

[garybeck]

33. what? did you see the today's testimony?

it is clearly a smoking gun.