Why is it such a big deal if the vote fraud story hits the MSM?

[truthpusher]

Wouldn't it be best if the work were done below the radar? I see this thing growing day by day and my greatest fear is that it will be bulldozed by the Bush spin machine. It seems as though anytime a story hits the mainstream media, somehow * and his people kill it. Is it worth all the effort to get it out? Does this story really have to be validated by something we all can agree is not legit in the first place? Just a thought.

[knowbody0]

1. IMHO

this situation is our line in the sand.
their blackout of this historical situation shows their insecurity

[truthpusher]

3. I still don't understand how more coverage would help?

[jdog]

10. MSM coverage would help those who need it to have courage.

Or at least realize that if they didn't do what they needed to, it would be in the bright light of day. Plus it would have given financial resources to research, and access for whistleblowers to speak, all kinds of things that we have all come to depend on in getting to the truth in a story.

But it seems pretty clear, they aren't up to the challenge. They certainly haven't looked into it enough to be taking the positions that these stories aren't true, so it's clear they won't do it - for some other reason not related to the reality of the situation. But look how the story has carried on in spite of their inaction.

[catnhatnh]

14. Really....

...suppose only 6 people stormed the Bastille....

[jamboi]

44. jdog is right. Joe 6pack does wait for confirmation from MSM.

[Wordie]

2. What you say is true, but there is a dilemma, because you need a critical

mass of people in order to effect change, but you can't really get that without media coverage, it seems. I don't think it's an issue of validation, but dissemination. Many have suggested guerilla marketing tactics, which is a good idea, but that can't compete with the tv sitting in everyone's home and shaping their opinions night after night. It's tricky.

[dmac]

6. agree - and as much as some of my friends may love me

until they see this in the MSM, not only will they give it no credence, they will also "be concerned" about me. So I even have some selfish reasons for wanting this thing to explode. It just doesn't look like it is going to happen.

[Karenca]

11. agree - and as much as some of my friends may love me"

I HAD TO COPY YOU----Your feelings are my feelings EXACTLY!

[dmac]

58. I don't mind you copying me

I just wish you weren't having the same experience. It is damn difficult and lonely at times, isn't it?

[AntiFascist]

7. I have a feeling that we are at a point where...

"Election fraud 2004" will either build momentum or begin to fade away into general public obscurity. We at least need the internet media to stay on top of this.

[Wordie]

12. Yes, in many ways the internet is the new media. I wonder what Marshall

McLuhan would say.

[procinderella]

32. Fade away?

John Kerry just made his letter public today!!
December 13 2004 - a day that will live in infamy.

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT???

the fight has just begun, silly...
:silly:

[AntiFascist]

37. Yeah, but....

is he up to the challenge of joining together with one representative to challenge the results of the electoral college?

[MadScientist]

38. Here's a way to achieve critical mass:

We're probably going to need protesters.
We need to attract the attention of huge groups of idealists.
We need people who buy ink by the barrel.

My idea:
COLLEGE NEWSPAPERS

We need a list of stories, already worked out with references. (Not just lists of links.)
We need a list of email addresses for college newspaper columnists and editors.

We keep them informed, they will inform the idealist protesters on campus, we achieve critical mass, MSM may be forced to bring it out.

What do you think?

(If it's a good idea, please start a new thread on this for me.)

[proudtobeadem]

43. You may have something there,

I don't know. They overwhelmingly went for Kerry so that would probably not be a problem.

[MadScientist]

46. Start a new thread please? n/t

[proudtobeadem]

55. Hi Mad Scientist, I started 2 new threads for you :

Sorry I took a while to get back to you
here they are;

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=115227&mesg_id=156196

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=154216&mesg_id=154216

One is in the Media Task force

[Angry Girl]

59. Unfortunately the semester is just ending....

So we'd lose the momentum until the Spring semester begins, in mid-January. :-(

[bklyncowgirl]

4. For most people if it ain't on TV it ain't real

This has got to move from a bunch of individuals, however dedicated and talented on the Internet to the mainstream.

[truthpusher]

9. But who cares if anybody believes it is real or not...

...beleif has never changed reality.

[Wordie]

13. I don't think so. I think Believing Is Seeing. Without some sort of belief

we just miss anything that doesn't fit with whatever beliefs we do have. I said that poorly, but I hope you understand. And I think, also, that there is also the issue of having an open and curious mind, that can temper this tendency somewhat. There are lots of social science experiments, btw, that say that people can actually see things differently depending on how they are led to see them. But then, I gues most people here on DU already know that.

[gumby]

17. Believing IS Everything.

Reality doesn't stand a chance against belief.

See "Saddam has Weapons of Mass Destruction" for just one example.

Most people get their "beliefs" from the corporate teevee and hate radio.

[Griffy]

5. the MSM will give it crediblity.. if they coulda spun this away...

they woulda.. the facts and stats are overwhelming... it address it at all is to say .. "look here!" and then we can march.. and our friends will join us.... the media must be forced to serve the public... 1 way or the other... it will!

[jamboi]

8. I think the under the radar has served us till now, but its time to rock.

We need to protest in the streets. We need to win in the court of public opinion, not just in the legal court. The two and interlocked, unfortunately. That's just the way it is.

[seito]

15. Remember

We still have some big voices in Hollywood. We also have a small voice in the media, especially the print media. If the key players really want the big guns, they will call them up. The momentum is building day by day. It seems everyday Ol Katherine Blackwell digs himself deeper and deeper. When the word needs to get out it will.

Have Faith

No Retreat No Surrender

[milkyway]

16. Mainstream media coverage doesn't matter. All that matters is the

vote counting, and the finding of evidence of election fraud. We had wall-to-wall media coverage in 2000, and it didn't help. Some people seem to think that a little media coverage will lead to a popular uprising and the overturning of the election. But the only thing that will overturn the election is the counting of votes or overwhelming evidence of deliberate, massive fraud (Cobb's testimony today about a Triad employee tampering with a tabulator on Friday might be a very good lead).

[Griffy]

19. BUT.. perception is reality... the people MUST know before..

this will get credibilty... remeber, they will deny it, and with media people will believe them, regardless of evidence...


"if a tree falls in the forest..."

[milkyway]

26. Public pressure alone will not overturn the election--it must be preceded

by the actual counting of votes that shows Kerry won, or by an overwhelming legal case that the election was decided by fraud. At that point, the media will have no choice but to give it a lot of coverage, and that will help build public pressure on Congress and/or the courts, who would ultimately make the decision on who is the winner of the election.

I certainly believe the election was stolen, but right now there is not enough evidence to make an open-and-shut case for most people. We are still waiting for that.

The cowered mainstream media will not cover this story until John Kerry makes a strong public statement about it, so they can hide behind him and say they are only covering the story because Kerry has made it a story. Jesse Jackson and John Conyers do not provide a strong enough shield to protect the wimp media types from the repugs.

[jdog]

20. Yes, and there are smaller papers turning in some good reporting.

The Beacon Journal did a good article and what was the paper KO mentioned - The Columbus Dispatch. The big guys in MSM may just find themselves out of work in the not-to-distant future. I love the thought of that!

http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/news/10393397.htm

[bklyncowgirl]

22. Reality and media coverage go hand in hand

In order to win the majority of the people over there must be:

1. Overwhelming proof and
2. It must be put out to the people by sources that they consider legitimate.

Unless the majority can be brought on board with this it's just going to be 2000 all over again only this time no one's paying attention.

[truthpusher]

29. You're right about 2000, it didn't help. n/t

[procinderella]

35. It's a multi-pronged approach

All of the above...it's all of it...internet, MSM, marchers, demonstrations, guerilla marketing, and especially overwhelming evidence of massive fraud.

That's why Kerry waited.

Earlier this year, I saw him (twice), shook his hand, etc.and really liked the guy. Good sense of humour... :hippie:

[proudtobeadem]

45. Media coverage does matter

if not they wouldn't be working so hard to silence it. We need them to get the message out, to build critical mass. They know that psychologically, it is very hard for a person to talk about something they know no one believes.

[truthpusher]

51. Are they really working hard to silence it?

or is it just that the people don't really care?

[Us vs Them]

18. Why is it such a big deal if the vote fraud story hits the MSM?

Because it will make me feel cool for being ahead of the curve!

Okay, just kidding. In all honesty, for the majority of America, reality is brought to you by ABC, CBS, NBC, and FIX- I mean FOX.

[truthpusher]

30. who cares about those who depend on ABC, Fox. etc. ...

...one motivated bright individual (on DU for example) is worth 1,000 of the mindless.

[Us vs Them]

36. These people are voters, and they talk to their friends.

Every person who knows about this is important. Unfortunately, this is a matter of quantity as well as quality.

[tjdee]

21. Because Republicans control both houses of Congress.

They're not letting their Bushie go for nothin'.

It doesn't matter what we find if the Republicans do nothing with it. Even the Supreme Court is stacked.

We need the people.

[AntiFascist]

25. Don't be so sure the Republicans are doing nothing...

look at what's happening to Rumsfeld.

[Osamasux]

23. "I know it's true,

oh so true,
'cause I saw it on TV"

- John Fogerty

[Merlot]

24. Because when I've mentioned voter fraud...

people just don't believe it. The idea that our government is not looking after us and protecting us is really huge for some people. Coming from me, it sounds like a consipiracy theory right up there with ailien abductions. Coming from the MSM it might get people thinking.

[truthpusher]

31. OK I've found a good reason...

...can the fuel of the Masses embolden witnesses to come forth...maybe?

[farmbo]

27. The difference between 100s and 10s of thousands at protest rallies

The difference between Ohio and the Ukraine... is the variable of a main stream media validating our cause and cheer leading for us.

[MadScientist]

42. I'll say it again-

COLLEGE NEWSPAPERS!

You know, the people who like to protest, college students?

[shiina]

28. The earlier it hits the MSM...

...the longer people have to get used to the idea, and they'll be more likely to believe it. If it becomes huge later, all of the sudden, and people don't know anything about it, it'll be too much for them to handle.

Also, there's people out there who want to know what's going on that don't have computers. People have a right to know, and the media has an obligation to inform us.

[truthpusher]

34. I agree, people do have the right to know.

[Alizaryn]

33. Its important to educate the public and to validate the issue as

being one "blessed" by the MSM so a REAL issue. I think thats how a great portion of the population sees things. If its not MSM its "tinfoil hat", unfortunately.

[ginnyinWI]

39. If Kerry wins the recount,

it still won't mean much without public support. And that means media attention. That's the only way I see any hope. It's just too easy for judges to throw out or delay a case or for members of Congress to look the other way, and not feel accountable, unless it is held up to public scrutiny. So I think that if/when the recount shows a Kerry win, then we should go ballistic. And Kerry should, too! He's the key to the media.

I've spent some time trying to put myself in his place. He is thinking he has a good shot at 2008, and doesn't want to be branded a sore loser. But if the recount is shown to be irrefutable proof that he won, he's not risking being painted as a sore loser. It would give him a leg up in 2008 even if he doesn't prevail in this election.

Another reason might be that he knows all too well how the wheels turn in politics, and the slim chance he has of overturning the election, given the party currently in power, both at state and federal levels. But it would seem to me that it would be easier to finish the fight for this election than to start all over from scratch in two years,and campaign for another two years! In two years he may not automatically have the support of all who voted for him this time. (He's got mine, but still...)

[proudtobeadem]

48. I fhe doesn't fight this time, he can forget about my vote.

And I will vote against him in the primaries. For now though I am still behind him 100000%!!

[libertypirate]

40. What is needed the Democrats have...

control of the information. How many affidavits hundreds? thousands? How many other "witnesses" to election fraud can you find in a month?

How much do we know? Maybe we heard a handful of stories when there are thousands more to come.

The more people speak up for their rights the easier it gets for others. We just need a brave few to go first.

[The Judged]

41. JK grass roots movement started & exploded w/o the MSM & under the radar!

Actually the movement started before Kerry became its leader and candidate of choice, but it was started under the radar and remained there until Kerry took control of the Democratic primaries.

Let's not forget that at last count, and despite the denial of vote by partisan election officials and election rules, that Kerry had 57,000,000 supporters show up on Election Day to vote for him*.

*Perhaps even more, depending on whether it can be proven that his votes were hijacked and distributed to his competition.

****From where**** does the Republican Party gain any legal franchise over the Constitutional right of the people to bring articles of impeachment against a sitting president and vice president as well as their political agents of public office?

I dare say that by virtue of political affiliation with the Republican Party that their franchise is unconstitutional and should be challenged as such.

The Constitution does not authorize a POLITICAL PARTY to exercise domain or Dominion over the Constitution and Congress and the publics right to have their Congress exercise its duty to bring articles of impeachment charges of or enforce those charges against high level goverment officials.

[showpan]

47. This country was not founded by the media

A corperate media controled by a corperate government is not going to help us. This country was founded by individuals who joined together to share a common dream and act upon those desires. Thery did this without tv and mainstream media monopolies by attending their local government meetings in mass and demanding their rights be recognized. They held rallies and protests until they gained enough public support to bring about such changes. OPFUR was started by a dozen college students and took down an entire regime without violence and without media. The last town meeting I attended had fewer than 10 people and the only voice who spoke oot against the board was personally attacked, humiliated and then escorted out. In a town of about 30,00 people, something is terribly wrong here. Mainstream media has control and the government controls the media so we must not count on them to be our voice. Education is the key and it starts with our friends, our neighbors and continues with our children. The real battle is not in getting the media to be our voice, it's in getting our fellow citizens involved and realizing that they have their own voice.

[proudtobeadem]

49. That is true in the long term,

and is the picture of not long ago (60-70's) when people still did this. Now the ones that are not brainwashed, or too busy working overtime to try to make it have gotten complacent. Unless this really explodes in the media i think we're in trouble. That being said. It ain't over till the fat lady sings!!!

[llpoperations]

50. Our Relationship with MSM

We should incorporate as a goal of this effort to break-up the corporate media. For 200 years America thrived with local, independent, entrepreneurial media. We have fewer sources of "news" now than my grandparents had.

Break Up the Corporate Media, and place limits back on the number of broadcast licenses which can be controlled by any corporation.

That's a policy which would resonate with the American people.

As for your poorly attended town meetings, look to small town New England town meetings for a lesson in participatory democracy.

[newyawker99]

52. Hi showpan!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[McCamy Taylor]

53. 'cause GOP owns Judiciary &Congress, leaves Court of Public Opinion

[Pseudofool]

54. MSM wait a bit

I think Truthpusher is onto something. We stand a much better chance if we have the undeniable, well-organized evidence backing up our claim. If MSM gets into the process too early they will have the chance to spin it to the point where Joe6Pack no longer cares, despite what evidence may turn up.

I don't MSM is going to report this until they have to. They seem to think that by suppressing the story--that it will go away; if it ends up blowing up, the MSM will regret not covering the story and thus minimizing any blowup.

Two edge sword: attempt to minimize story's impact by covering and downplaying it OR don't cover the story at all and hope it goes away.

Poor MSM such a conundrum

[European Socialist]

56. You would be right if...

if we weren't dealing with partisan judges, officials, and politicians. It's hard to get these people to be fair even with public pressure.

[demo dutch]

57. Organize an ad TV campaign and put the question

in front of the American People
"Do you know if your vote was counted?"