WTF?: Cleveland editorial to election challengers: moveon.now

[kuozzman]

I'd like to kick the author of this editorials ass!
http://www.cleveland.com/search/index.ssf?/base/opinion/1103106733237320.xml?oxedi

"Unfortunately, there is a small, but very vocal, group of Americans who refuse to accept this reality. They argue that what appear to be routine technical glitches and human errors were in fact an elaborate conspiracy to skew the election results. They claim that long lines at a few polling places, the rather unsurprising result of high voter interest, were evidence of a systematic campaign to discourage participation. In short, having failed to get the outcome they wanted at the polls, they have decided to mount an irresponsible campaign aimed at undermining public confidence in the electoral system itself."

[thanatonautos]

1. Sure ... it's a bad thing to be very vocal in America now. NOT! n/t

[insane_cratic_gal]

9. Direct his attention to this

typos Not enough coffee yet this morning

It's a Jan. 31 2003 but I know most of you know this information but I can't believe every time I read why people aren't outraged by this bogus elections.

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0131-01.htm

<snip>
I suspect they're getting ready to do this all across all the states," Matulka said in a January 30, 2003 interview. "God help us if Bush gets his touch screens all across the country," he added, "because they leave no paper trail. These corporations are taking over America, and they just about have control of our voting machines."


The respected Washington, DC publication The Hill (www.thehill.com/news/012903/hagel.aspx) has confirmed that former conservative radio talk-show host and now Republican U.S. Senator Chuck Hagel was the head of, and continues to own part interest in, the company that owns the company that installed, programmed, and largely ran the voting machines that were used by most of the citizens of Nebraska.

Back when Hagel first ran there for the U.S. Senate in 1996, his company's computer-controlled voting machines showed he'd won stunning upsets in both the primaries and the general election. The Washington Post (1/13/1997) said Hagel's "Senate victory against an incumbent Democratic governor was the major Republican upset in the November election." According to Bev Harris of www.blackboxvoting.org, Hagel won virtually every demographic group, including many largely Black communities that had never before voted Republican. Hagel was the first Republican in 24 years to win a Senate seat in Nebraska.

[Dem2theMax]

2. I only read the snip part. Sounds like KKKarl wrote it. lol.

'Small, but very vocal group?' SMALL? 'Routine technical glitches?' lmao.

And the priceless line: "they have decided to mount an irresponsible campaign aimed at undermining public confidence in the electoral system itself."

Um, I don't think WE did that. KKKarl and his gang did that all by themselves. :evilgrin:


I'm REALLY enjoying this. :bounce:

On edit: I sent the editor an email. Told him that someone at his paper wasn't paying very close attention to what is going on.

Told him to go read William Pitt: http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/121604Z.shtml

:) :) :)

[tsuki]

11. Is that Karl Roe?

[Dem2theMax]

23. Well, it's KKKarl Rove, but I think that's the way it's spelling in

Arnbecks paper. lol.

[Pirate Smile]

3. Wasn't the higher turnout supposed to be overall and didn't it increase

across almost all demographics? Then why where the enormous waits primarily in Democratic, especially minority districts.

[MrUnderhill]

12. Probably dozens of reasons.

To some extent it isn't true. There were long lines all around the country. I waited for over three hours in a suburban, largely-white precinct. Everyone said it had never been like this before (but it was my first year at this location).

It could also be said that this isn't anything new. It may not be racial bias, but lots of minority areas have seemed to have this problem for years and we are frequently requesting that courts order polling places to stay open past the scheduled time to account for long waits. In many cases, Democrats are in control of the system from top to bottom, yet it still happens. I suspect it's an economics thing that we should have fixed after 2000. If Federal dollars are supposed to "help us vote", they should be guaranteeing a certain ability to handle volume (more precincts, more machines, faster processes).

[insane_cratic_gal]

4. playing the 2000 card

I was just doing some research, seems the "glitches" across the board were far greater in 2004 then 2002.

2002 ones recorded from just the little info I have (also I have no idea how many e-voting machines were in use.)

In Fl 1,000 eligible voters no votes were recorded at all.
130 non votes. people showed up cast but recorded no choice.

in MD "software" glitches caused 30 precincts to identify all voters as democrats. Now that bothers me, why would a machine even need to know your political party? Was 2002 a test run on e-fraud? WHY does it change or alter that information at all?

things that make you go hmmm

[Chili]

5. the Cleveland Plain Dealer is a right-wing propagandist...

...for the Bush administration and the Republican party and has been for years. While they still manage to sustain a cloak of respectability, it is telling that they refuse to even consider that the "claims" have any legitimacy. A responsible newspaper would have its journalist investigate the allegations and see if they are founded in fact. In their article the other day, what we saw as "proof" that there was no fraud was a travesty, and was obviously written without a second of thought or exploration. Instead, they emulate the Washington Times and spit out the Republican party line in the face of any opposition view. The Plain Dealer has lost all credibility, and the harder they ignore the growing story, the more they prove how irrelevant they are.

[sportndandy]

6. Pre-emptive defense smacks of growing worry

What could they be worrying about?

[Goldeneye]

7. We'll see what they say , when we prove there was fraud..

[Gman]

8. Yes, public confidence MUST be undermined

and NO its NOT irresponsible. Its for love of this country.

[mattclearing]

10. Send a letter to [e-mail]

Opinion Editor
Brent Larkin
[e-mail]
216.999.4252

Here's mine:

Today's editorial accusing concerned voters of sour grapes is dismissive and insulting.

Considering that the headline at Cleveland.com is currently: "Cleveland Official: 'I took bribes,'" is it really that impossible to even consider the mounting evidence that voting was tampered with?

If there is really nothing to see here, then why can't Kenneth Blackwell answer Rep. Conyers' questions?

If there is nothing to see here, then why is Blackwell declaring public records "locked-down," and "no longer public"?

If there is nothing to see here, why did three Chevy Suburbans with tinted windows run Katrina Sumner off the road after she staked out the Greene County Elections Board?

If the Plain Dealer wants to have any credibility when it is proven that vote fraud and cover-ups took place in the Ohio vote, it had better re-examine its position.

Thanks,

[mod mom]

13. In Columbus, we cancelled subscriptions. Why..

pay for the voice of fascism. Internet is the answer.

[Dem2theMax]

22. Oh, I love that line.

"Why pay for the voice of fascism? Internet is the answer."

I can smell some posters being made up. :)

[jmknapp]

14. If the number of critics is small

and their arguments based on air, how is "public confidence in the electoral system" threatened?

The article demonstrably was written by a Bush-bot, to whom logic is a stranger.

[bones_7672]

15. Those here who believe the election was stolen

are indeed in the small, small minority of people. Comments here, such as the one that calls the Cleveland Plain Dealer a puppet of the Bush administration show just how out of touch with reality some people are. No wonder, after all the hype, even tho the story is hitting MSM, all that is basically reported is that those challenging the election are angry, bitter, and out of touch.

[mattclearing]

16. While I disagree with you on who is out of touch,

I do think it is important for people realize that a great deal of people have taken the blue pill on the election. Rhetoric and tone should be appropriately moderated.

[jmknapp]

17. Well then

How is public confidence in the election in danger of being undermined?

The PD editorial is illogical.

[BeFree]

18. Out of Touch?

Yes, we are out of touch. Rove's M$M has failed to touch most of us. We continue to be informed and proactive because we have kept ourselves out of touch from the slanted propaganda such as the editorial mentioned here.

Bitter and angry? Hell yes. You would be too if you were as out of touch as the rest of us.

[jmknapp]

19. The party line

Norman Robbins, professor emeritus of Case Western, worked on voter registration efforts and found (http://www.house.gov/judiciary_democrats/clevelandvoterstmt121304.pdf) that many voter registration forms were never processed by the Cuyahoga County Board of Elections. His team found that out before the election, as they had a list of people they had signed up, and were able to find out that these people didn't show up on the registration lists. The BOE attributed it to a regrettable but small clerical error. When his group sent out public notices telling newly-registered people to check their status and re-register if needed before the Oct. 2 cutoff, the BOE accused him of "inciting panic."

This seems to be the line of the Cleveland establishment in general.

"Do not point to our failings."

[pipes]

20. Cleveland estalishment?

How about Bush establishment or possibly repuke?

[Chili]

21. excuse me?

I LIVE here, have lived here all my life. I READ that newspaper, for THIRTY YEARS I've read that paper, through race riots and bussing issues and every goddamn thing else, and they most defininitely swing right on every issue. Don't goddamn tell me I'm out of touch with that bullshit you just posted. YOU apparently don't know what the hell you're talking about. How about getting your head out of your ass and YOU seeing reality? Since you live on the "North Coast" you should know this, unless that paper accurately reflects your views.

And I'm sick and tired of seeing you go from thread to thread to thread in this drawer denigrating people for believing there was fraud or voter suppression. I don't know about anybody else, but I've had it with your snide putdowns.

[McCamy Taylor]

24. election challengers to editorial "moveoutofourway.now"

[RaulVB]

25. "Undermining public confidence in the electoral system itself..."

"Undermining it?"

My goal is to take it to the ground and replace it with a democratic system.

Get out of the way, "Cleveland gang"...

[McCamy Taylor]

26. isnt that a crime in Communist China?