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elizm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 11:40 AM
Original message
So if the FBI investigates..
Is anyone here confident that it would be a FAIR investigation?? Or am I just a total skeptic now?
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EMunster Donating Member (477 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
1. I think the FBI is totally politicized now....
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jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
17. I don't think totally, but its a definite problem. n/t
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
2. Well, consider that the CIA got a new pro-junta boss & the FBI didn't
get a change at the top. To me that says enough about where the FBI is coming from.
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unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. actually
I think they did recently go through their own house cleaning.
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carolinalady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #2
10. Actually this am on CNN there was a guy on talking about a
large number of FBI top officials leaving at this time. The question posed to him was would it be a threat to National Security? Of course, he answered No. Then he stated he has seen this at least twice before in the 80's and the 90's. Stated how stressful and time consuming top jobs in Washington are and how they frequently have turnover. Stated that it takes about 6-9 months for new people to learn how the FBI operates in DC.
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kuozzman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
3. Sure, you can trust the FBI.....
I recently saw an article saying that in the 80's they arrested a congressman for loosening environmental restrictions for a company in return for money, so sure, they'll arrest members of the gover-wait, doesn't that kind of stuff still happen?
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kuozzman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Oh, silly me, that's legal now, they even get their own street in
Washington. That way, they're close by whenever a law needs to be written or changed.
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indigobusiness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
4. The FBI can't even investigate itself.
Did we ever hear what happened to all those laptops that went missing, just before 911?
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indigobusiness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
6. elizm, are you associated with the FBI?
Would you say so if you were?

No offense, but it occured to me this might be the sort of thread to troll for FBI haters.

God love 'em.
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elizm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. Ha Ha..
SO far from it....
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indigobusiness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #14
24. That sounds suspiciously...
like a Clarice Starling accent, to me.

But, I'm extremely paranoid.

What really scares me is that I might not be paranoid enough.
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malatesta1137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
7. is John Ashcroft fair?
this investigation will come to absolutely NOTHING.
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Chimpanzee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
8. The FBI is directed by the FBI director who is directed by *
so my answer would be - don't hold your breathe!
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godel escher bach Donating Member (55 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
11. If they do investigate, and find nothing...
Edited on Wed Dec-15-04 12:13 PM by godel escher bach
...we need to have another fraud or conspiracy theory ready so we can continue making claims of fraud or conspiracy. Here's my suggestion:

The acronym - FBI - can be rearranged as FIB; thereby proving they are damn liars.

Is this funny ?

We really should move on - my opinion. If you disagree, carry on.

EDIT: When I wrote this, I hadn't yet seen post #8. The theory proposed in #8 is far superior to mine.
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EMunster Donating Member (477 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
12. These days I wouldn't doubt the FBI is among us right now...


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indigobusiness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. They've wasted their time
Edited on Wed Dec-15-04 12:20 PM by indigobusiness
on more ridiculous pursuits than DU.

I just hope things are more on the side of doing the right thing than they were in J.Edgar's day. Is that hoping for too much?

---
Hi, Agent Mike!
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Shalom Donating Member (832 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
15. Why Does the FBI Have Jurisdiction In This Case ?
Anyone know ?
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Federal election laws?
Is vote tampering a felony? I would think it is. Especially in a national election.
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IAMREALITY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Because Tampering With An Election Is A Federal Offense n/t
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BrotherBuzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. It's all spelled out in Conyer's letter to the FBI
Conyers, upon hearing these allegations, sent a letter to both the FBI Special Agent in Charge in Ohio and the Hocking County Prosecutor. The text of that letter is as follows:

December 15, 2004

As part of the Democratic staff's investigation into irregularities in the 2004 election and following up on a lead provided to me by Green Party Presidential Candidate, David Cobb, I have learned that Sherole Eaton, a Deputy Director of Board of Elections in Hocking County, Ohio, has first hand knowledge of inappropriate and likely illegal election tampering in the Ohio presidential election in violation of federal and state law.

I have information that similar actions of this nature may be occurring in other counties in Ohio. I am therefore asking that you immediately investigate this alleged misconduct and that, among other things, you consider the immediate impoundment of election machinery to prevent any further tampering.

On December 13, my staff met with Ms. Eaton who explained to them that last Friday, December 10, Michael Barbian, Jr., a representative of Triad GSI unilaterally sought and obtained access to the voting machinery and records in Hocking County, Ohio, modified the computer tabulator, learned which precinct was planned to be the subject of the initial test recount and made further alterations based on that information, and advised the election officials how tomanipulate the machinery so that the preliminary hand recount matched the machine count. Ms. Eaton first relayed this information to Green Party representatives, and then completed, signed and notarized an affidavit describing this course of events, a copy of which is attached.

The Triad official sought access to the voting machinery based on the apparent pretext that he wanted to review some"legal questions" the officials might receive as part of the recount process. At several times during this visit, Mr.Barbian telephoned into Triad's offices to obtain programming information relating to the machinery and the precinct in question. I have subsequently learned that Triad officials have been, or are in the process of intervening in several other counties in Ohio - Greene and Monroe, and perhaps others (see attached).

There are several important considerations you should be aware of with respect to this matter. First, this course of conduct would appear to violate several provisions of federal law, in addition to the constitutional guarantees of equal protection and due process. 42 U.S.C. §1973 provides for criminal penalties against any person who, in any election for federal office, "knowingly and willfully deprives, defrauds, or attempts to defraud the residents of a State of a fair and impartially conducted election process, by . . . the procurement, casting, or tabulation of ballots that are known by the person to be materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent under the laws of the State in which the election is held." 42 U.S.C. § 1974 also requires the retention and preservation, for a period of twenty-two months from the date of a federal election, of all voting records and papers and makes it a felony for any person to "willfully steal, destroy, conceal, mutilate, or alter" any such record. Further, any tampering with ballots and/or election machinery would violate the constitutional rights of all citizens to vote and have their votes properly counted, as guaranteed by the Equal Protection and Due Process Clauses of the Fourteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

Second, the course of conduct would also appear to violate several provisions of Ohio law. No less than 4 provisions of the Ohio Revised Code make it a felony to tamper with or destroy election records or machines.1 Clearly, modifying election equipment in order to make sure that the hand count matches the machine count would appear to fall within these proscriptions.

Moreover, bringing in Triad officials into other Ohio Counties would also appear to violate Ohio Revised Code § 3505.32 which provides that during a period of official canvassing, all interaction with ballots must be "in the presence of all of the members of the board and any other persons who are entitled to witness the official canvass," given that last Friday, the Ohio Secretary of State has issued orders to the effect that election officials are to treat all election materials as if they were in a period of canvassing,2 and that "Teams of one Democrat and one Republican must be present with ballots at all times of processing."

Third, it is important to recognize that the companies implicated in the wrongdoing, Triad and its affiliates, are the leading suppliers of voting machines involving the counting of paper ballots and punch cards in the critical states of Ohio and Florida. Triad is controlled by the Rapp family, and its founder Tod A. Rapp has been a consistent contributor to Republican causes.4 A Triad affiliate, Psephos corporation, supplied the notorious butterfly ballot used in Palm Beach County, Florida, in the 2000 presidential election.

Sincerely,

John Conyers, Jr.

Enclosures

cc: The Honorable F. James Sensenbrenner, Jr.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/121604Z.shtml

Thanks Will for such a tight article...One stop shopping :)
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Shalom Donating Member (832 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. OK, So Why Don't the Feds just interview "Mystery Mike" ?
I mean, we are not talking about an unkown individual who "serviced" the tabulation machine... Why not put him under the hot lights and ask him if he proposed a "cheat sheet" or not. This would be much better than getting BS statements from Rapp, founder of TRIAD.
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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
20. The FBI told Warren County to lockdown, oh wait... :-) n/t
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jsascj Donating Member (425 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
22. Nope
I am thinking not.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
23. nope, that's why Conyers is soliciting testimony, cause the FBI would bury
Edited on Wed Dec-15-04 03:47 PM by McCamy Taylor
however, with the Dems on the House Judiciary Committe breathing down their necks the career FBI people are more likely to do their jobs.
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