Election '04: way outside the box /Seattle Times GO ANDY GBnC!

[BeHereNow]

Great Article about Andy and election fraud in the
Seattle Times today-

Excerpt:
"They say Andy Stephenson is paranoid.
But just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not really out to get you.
For two years this brash Seattle businessman has crisscrossed the country and Internet chat rooms, sounding an alarm that your vote could be lost or altered by corporate-controlled software or incompetent bureaucrats.
To those who refuse to let the presidential election die, he's become a heroic watchdog of voter rights Ñ first for Renton-based Black Box Voting and now for Help America Recount, which still is pushing for new vote tallies in three states. "
Link to Article:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002119969_danny15.html

Be sure to read the entire article, oh ironies of ironies...
BHN

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

1. Andy has cred.

He's an essentially honest guy. He deserves good things and good words in his life now.

[Griffy]

2. nice intro to the idea of fraud,except the "conspiracy theorist" ending nt

[troubleinwinter]

3. Whoa... the article published today. Interesting.

Wonder when he was interviewed. Yep, he has cred.

[texpatriot2004]

4. The article is mediocre, not friendly to our cause in my opinion

This sounds bad...

"Well, I don't know. I've defended the system in the past. It's still true that almost all the claims of fraud and stolen votes in recent elections have, to date, turned out to be bogus. When there were vote-counting irregularities, they were almost always due to innocent human error."

<snip>

This sounds better...

"But there's no doubt the level of error has become unacceptable, to the point of threatening the legitimacy of this election."

<snip>

And this really gets me...

"But one legacy of this increasingly bizarre election seems assured: It's given rich, new life to the conspiracy theories for years to come."

[BeHereNow]

5. Oh, I don't know...

I think waking the sheeple is a arduous task.
Anything that can nudge them from their stupor
and get them to start questioning is a good thing.
Plus I think the article is a nice balance to the
vitriolic actions of BBV last night...Now that type
of behavior does not benefit our cause and talk
about fodder for CT?
BHN

[texpatriot2004]

6. You could be right. n/t

[BeHereNow]

8. The fact that Andy's provisional wasn't counted is TOO ironic...

I think that part of the article is WAY important as far as
nudging the sheeple.
I mean think about it-
The story conveys the fact that a person who is VERY public
about investigating the disenfranchisement of voters turns out to be
a victim of the very same!

I think that really puts it on a human level and might make
people say, "Well heck, I wonder if MY vote was counted?"
I think it is a very human article and relates information in a frame
that people can digest simply-
ANYTHING that can nudge people towards questioning is GOOD!
BHN

[jamboi]

11. Author is giving voice to average Joe view of this situation. Positive in

the point that he's saying he can finally contemplate that maybe Andy was right! That's progress I'd say.

[Verve]

7. This is not a nice article! He's basically saying if you question the

votes, you're a tinfoiler!:tinfoilhat:

[BeHereNow]

10. I disagree!

I think the author points out that someone like Andy
who may be labeled a Tin foiler just may very well
be justified in his investigations.
After all, he found out that his provisional ballot
was not counted.
I think the article illustrates the syaing about
first they ridicule you, then they hate you and eventually
they agree with you.
Something like that anyway...
BHN

[jamboi]

12. Not what I got from it. see my post above. n/t

[Helga Scow Stern]

13. I agree. Like no fraud, just error. n/t

[Kralizec]

9. kick - n/t

[eridani]

14. My LTE in response

(Note that I used a summary of the data analysis of TruthIsAll--thanks!)

Danny Westneat's column appears Wednesday and Friday. Reach him at 206-464-2086 or [e-mail].

Well, I don't know. I've defended the system in the past. It's still true that almost all the claims of fraud and stolen votes in recent elections have, to date, turned out to be bogus. When there were vote-counting irregularities, they were almost always due to innocent human error.

Sorry, Danny, that is just plain not true. Or, more precisely, it’s flat out impossible to tell one way or another whether it is true or not because fully one third of the votes tabulated in this country cannot be audited in any way. If you think that being bothered by that qualifies one for a tinfoil hat, maybe you should prove that you don’t need a tinfoil hat yourself. Just demand that all the companies you invest in save money by dispensing with having their books independently audited. Obviously, no CEO could possibly have any motivation to mess with any of the numbers, just as manufacturers of voting machines who are also major donors to political candidates couldn’t possibly have any motivation to game the system to work in favor those candidates.

An example of just one type of problem from the data on nearly 40,000 voting problems reported to https://voteprotect.org/index.php?display=EIRMapNation --if you do a search for ‘machine problems’ + Kerry or Bush, 89 incidents turn up. Of these incidents, 84 Kerry votes came up as Bush on the screen, 2 Bush votes came up as Kerry, and 3 were ambiguous. I’d like to hear your explanation of why the errors were so lopsided in one direction. These errors were not always corrected, and the reported ones almost certainly just the tip of the iceberg.

In addition to such issues relating to unauditable touch screen machines, even systems which do have paper records also have tabulation software which is proprietary. I find that to be an absolute outrage for the highly public act of voting. According to the New York Times, the quarter you put into a slot machine is better protected than your vote. The software on all gambling devices is on file with the state and the machines are constantly spot-checked by state officials. If a company wants to sell slot machines, it must submit to a criminal background check and register its employees with the state. If you think you’ve been cheated, you have the right to an immediate inspection of the machine.

I’d suggest that if you want people to quit spinning fantasies about what is going on when people use secret software to count our votes behind closed doors that you advocate that every single aspect of vote tabulation henceforth be conducted in the bright light of day.