The single biggest flaw of the Left

[WilliamPitt]

"Speak ill of no Republican in public." - Ronald Reagan

One of these days, we're going to get hip to the incredible tactical wisdom of that one line.

[KoKo]

1. The "yellow fog" of LA has gotten into your brain...can you give a little

more, in context of what you are saying??? Please???

[Must_B_Free]

5. he saying stop the public infighting

[KoKo]

49. To me as an "older DU'er" the Public infighting doesn't look good, BUT

if we are to move forward after three failed elections (which were stolen) we still need to figure out where we go forward...in case the fraud is thrown out, and trashed by the Repug Cabal.

We need the "back up plan." Hashing it out amongst all the factions here is good and bad...it depends.

I think we've spent too much time on Bev Harris as a Personality, though...

It's BBVOTING that should be a huge concern over the "folks who brung us to the dance..." to use an old bad grammatical description...:shrug:

[MelissaB]

7. Think of a southerner.

We are very polite and make nice nice to your face and are know for our hospitality. We know (the enlightened ones anyway) that the easiest way to to convince somebody to believe something is to be friendly to them, not call them evil bastards, etc. By calling people names (to their faces), you alienate them.

Am I close to what you mean?

[sui generis]

23. yes but us southerners

can be evil passive-aggressive children. Why bring a knife to a gun fight? They're using guns. No matter how much we think a smile up front and a knife in the back is good, a gun is better (and no I'm not a gun freak, just using an example).

It doesn't change our principles to be forthright in our opinions. Using the word "mischaracterization" instead of "lie" in a presidential debate did not serve Kerry as well as just calling a spade a spade would have.

There are millions of dems like me who would be ecstatic to hear a bit of plain speech on issues, and that's real leadership. Everything else is voluntarily tying one's own hand behind one's back, and carrying a knife to a gun fight.

[MelissaB]

38. Yep! I agree,

and if you harm my family I'll destroy you. I don't have a gun or a good knife, but I'll do any way I can.

We protect our own.

[KoKo]

47. Plain Speech/Plain Speak....wouln't it be WONDERFUL/WONDERFUL!

Just "CUT THE CRAP" and "SPIT IT OUT." I know what you are saying. "NUANCE" in the Southern Tradition doesn't cut it anymore. And it's our own Southerners who have gone on the ATTACK...they've lost touch with their roots...but we "mainstream and populist Dems have also lost touh with "OUR" roots that we can't come up against them...because we are sooooo "nuanced." Sad...

[KoKo]

48. We "Impode" under our own Ideology....and yet we can't even reach a

consensus of what our "own ideology" is? And there's much good about that...but we have so little time left...and we've squandered so much fighting about it...

Herding Cats? I don't know.. But the Other Side Lined Up Against Us for Battle...I wonder if they even know what they do in the name of America with the Humvee's the SUV MegaMonsters...and the support for an Idiot.

I don't know...:shrug: just watching to see how it sorts out with intermittant ravings inbetween...:shrug:

[merh]

45. Yes, we southerners may forgive

But we never forget! Our enemies are much more managable if we are polite and friendly to them, while always keeping in mind the reason why they are our enemies.

Put another way, when I went to confession once, I confessed to a priest that a lady at work was causing me much grieve and anger. He told me that hating her was only damaging me, it had no effect on her. He suggested that I pray that all good the things she wanted would come to her, to pray only for the best for her. I hesitantly followed his advice and she was offered a job with another organization. My prayers and hers had been answered.

[jamboi]

50. I'm w/ you WRP! n/t

[JaneDoughnut]

Wisdom that benefits whom?

The attack machine seems to work well when the other guys use it. I think that we have to have a message regarding the flaws of the right, as well as a clear opposition message that states why the left has a better alternative.

[Leilani]

2. It sounds good, but fails in reality

Reagan ran against a sitting Repub Prez.

And they do as much bad mouthing as we do: they set up purity tests, especially the Fundies.

[WilliamPitt]

3. "Reagan ran against a sitting Repub Prez"...um...Carter?

[Leilani]

10. No, um, Ford.

He challenged him in the primaries, & it was not until the convention that Ford won the nomination.

The party split into Ford/Reagan wings, & Carter was able to defeat Ford. The Reaganites didn't unify behind Ford after the convention.

[WilliamPitt]

30. You are correct, my bad

[Leilani]

32. Thank you, Mr.Pitt.

EOM

[CaptainCorc]

15. Ford in the '76 primaries....not so? n/t

[Leilani]

22. Um, I thought you were the expert.

Remember the Panama Canal Treaty issue?

[Donailin]

58. Agree. Always precede the word "republican" with .. . .

fascist.

fascist republican
fascist republicans
fascist republican party

[MarkusQ]

19. Uh, when was that? (n/t)

[Leilani]

27. 1976 primaries

[MarkusQ]

35. Self delete

[Leilani]

40. Read up on it

Reagan's first run for the Presidency was in 1976 when he challenged then Prez Gerald Ford; the primaries were fought all the way to the convention.

Ford won, but it divided the party. Carter then defeated Ford, as he was weakened by a bruising primary fight.

Reagan then ran against Carter in 1980 & defeated him.

[MarkusQ]

43. Yeah, I was there (well, not "there", but I was around). Alzheimer's? n/t

[Leilani]

44. Yeah, we all have our senior moments!

LOL!

[insane_cratic_gal]

4. Perhaps

But then we get into the battle of what exactly democrats stand for. Do we not?

It is the habits of dems to question everything, even our own. On some ground this is healthy. It attempts to keep things honest. Is it counter productive, yes it is, in the sense of progress of the party is slowed and entangled.
But when we do come to terms with an issue or a idea we stand fully behind it after looking it over from all angles.

Dems are not sheep.

[Bill Bored]

9. Nobody says not to question anything

but when we do, and the questions or their possible answers don't fit the Dem (or the DU) group-think, we insult each other (at least some of us do), and THAT gets us exactly NOWHERE.

[Bill Bored]

6. You Guys Don't Get It!

He means WE shouldn't dis EACH OTHER in public!

[insane_cratic_gal]

8. and do what

Stand behind people like chimp?

I "almost" feel bad for those Moderate Reps. You know they are just balking at the admin.

Edit for additional thoughts:

I also want to point out if any Dem pulled the crap that BushINC has we would of yanked his butt out office so quickly his knickers would drop

[Bill Bored]

28. Be pursuasive! That's what! n/t

[Zensea]

11. I guess this means you're a member of the Left then?

O8)

[Kellis]

12. It does look *so* bad and gives

the opposition *so* much satisfaction.

Whats that old saying...Something about never letting them see you sweat?

[smartvoter]

13. Interesting. I think we get kicked around because we're not nasty enough.

But I can see the merit in biting our tongues with each other.

[lutherj]

14. I think the point is that the Republicans put up a unified front. They

don't badmouth each other in public. The left too often gets caught up in internal fights, which undermines our credibility. For us, the corollary to Reagan's comment would be "Speak no ill of Democrats in public."

[WilliamPitt]

18. Give that man a seegar

[KoKo]

51. Yet you know...one of our "virtues" is that we aren't Repugs...and who

the hell would want to be "Lock Step" like those POS?

[VioletLake]

57. It's not about walking in "lock step."

It's about tact. Perception is everything.

[KoKo]

52. The "Mainstream" (if we know it) PULLS! But the "RADICAL" in us resists!

Without the radicals where would America be...and yet the Imperial Wars agaisnt the Native Americans bothers ME to this day...and I'm one of those "close to "Original" settlers of the US...escaping England and France for Religious Freedom...How many of us KILLED when we came here to survive and "Implant" our heritage on folks who had THEIR OWN HERITAGE???

The STRONG replace the CLUELESS/INNOCENTS/BELIEVERS IN TRUTH/FAIRNESS...our Karma comes home to roost..but doesn't the "burden" on us lie to try to right the wrongs we can? Or, at least, come to grips with it all and make a NEW AND BETTER WORLD? Putting aside "Vengefulness, Retribution, Lies, and Obfuscation...

How else will we move forward?

[KoKo]

53. Yikes...when one starts talking to "one's self" on internet threads it's a

good time to take a break...See that I've done this...answering myself..ugh...goodbye...

[VioletLake]

56. It also makes us more vulnerable to agent provocateurs. n/t

[cali]

16. Apocryphal.

They don't hew to it. Check out Fweeperville. They savage McCain and Guiliani, as well as Hagel and Lugar. Their wrath knows no bounds when it comes to Chafee, Specter and Snowe.
And it's not just internet forums. Crystol can't stand Rumsfeld. Republicans go after each other. McCain and Hastert have recently had a public clash.

[Bill Bored]

34. Yes but this is because they are already holding all the frickin' cards!

How many we got?

[BlueDog2u]

36. That doesn't mean it wasn't smart advice

And it doesn't mean it's still not smart advice.

Thanks, William, for reminding us.

[earthside]

17. Tolerance and Diversity

That is the single biggest flaw of the left ... we think the concepts of 'tolerance and diversity' apply when you are talking to and about radical Republicans.

You see this from those who get nervous and anxious when we use the word 'fascist' to describe the policies and actions of the Bush regime. You see it in the Washington establishment Democrats who keep thinking that if they are civil and tolerant, eventually the Republicans will respect them.

Tolerance and diversity are positive values when applied to individuals and social groups; in politics those traits are weaknesses.

Liberals and progressives will never become leaders in this country again until they take on the radical Republicans for what they are and call them what they are : Christo-fascists.

[Carl Brennan]

20. Maybe there isn't infighting here at DU

as much as Repug infiltrators trying to divide and conquer.

[WilliamPitt]

29. Randi Rhodes is a freeper infiltrator?

She said Kerry didn't really want to be President.

There are several threads here from people I've known a long time. They're not infiltrators.

I don't know. Maybe it is an impossible standard to live up to. It just drives me nuts to see such good people working so hard, and somehow we always wind up like crabs in a barrel.

[insane_cratic_gal]

33. Im not going to Dis

Kerry or Edwards, even Dean.

Only Dem I have dissed is Reid. I just don't know yet if he has the spine to stand up the admin. I have a wait and see attitude when it comes to Ried.

I don't eat dems but I understand the fustration factor people are feeling. We the people have turned into a red-haired step child, who is slapped around.

I think that is why you see so much tenison among us right now.

[Carl Brennan]

59. Point taken, but I was referring to DU.

I think there is some of what you are saying and some of what I'm saying. It is a beech to try to sort it out so what I do is just caution people that there are freeps/infiltrators/Psy-ops people in our midst to heighten their awareness and hope they are smart enough not to take things at face value.

I don't know if it does much good.

On the positive side have you ever seen the Greens, dems, Black Civil Rights movement, even the Libertarians so unified like they are on the voting issue?

That makes me smile.

[Joe Chi Minh]

31. You gat it!

Well, both. But not all Dems.

[Turn CO Blue]

21. I agree. Have written it many times on this board and another

Democrats tend to eat their own. In public. The party leaders (especially the dinosaurs who've been around forever) are the best at it. The in-fighting and territoriality of the Dems is legendary.

If the Repubs want a particular Dem dragged through the mud (meaning credibility or reputation smeared), they won't have to do it themselves - all they have to do is wait a little while for some fellow Dem to do it for them.

I will attempt to do my small part to heed the wisdom of your post in the future. I will not criticize Democrats in front of Republicans.

[jlayson]

24. This is maybe the ticket

Will ,do ya mean ..Dems should speak no ill of fellow Dems in public..? that's the ticket ,got to be ..

[Alizaryn]

25. United they stand divided they fall.

[mzmolly]

26. Nevermind, I get it.

I totally agree.

:hi:

[ClassWarrior]

37. Reagan's 11th Commandment.

Yup. We need to be responsible with our messages.

NGU.

[Old Mouse]

39. you speak gospel n/t

[Gyre]

41. For clues to the failings of "the left"

I prefer my "Magic Eight-Ball", to Ronnie RayGun quotes.

PS. Does anybody think that interminable self-analysis is productive?

Gyre

[ClassWarrior]

46. Any intelligent being regularly engages in self-analysis.

Otherwise they're a freeper or a kaiser roll.

NGU.

[senseandsensibility]

42. You don't want us to speak ill of repukes

in public? Seems to me some of our "leaders" are already living up to THAT ONE big time. Ok, lame joke. Sorry. I agree. I wish we would not eat our own. Some of the vitriol spewed forth on this board at people on our side is equal to, or more extreme than the criticism of * !!! Someone yesterday posted a suggestion that Bev and Katharine Harris are of the same ilk. Thank about that for a moment.

[Wiley50]

54. I posted that thread

and I'm man enough to admit it. And no, they are similar in last name only. But Bev was acting very evil last night.
And I was very angry with her.
She hasn't treated me very well, personally, in the last six weeks.
When I heard her on Randi, saying if Andy was no longer with BBV, it "was news to her".
Then, 10 minutes later, She posted that trash about him on her website.
I was furious!
I don't know Andy personally,except through a mutual friend. But from reading posts I have come to admire him much, much more than I do Bev.
I guess this is just perpetuating it. I woke up today wanting to put it all in the past. But since you brought up my thread, I wanted to give it some context.
I'm done now.
I hope.

Wiley

[senseandsensibility]

55. I have to admit that I didn't

read your whole post, and thanks for putting it in context. If you feel that strongly about Bev, that's your right of course. Speaking for myself, however, I can't equate the two. Regardless of Bev's faults and misdeeds, she has done some good. And Katharine has not. Katharine really is pure evil.

[seito]

60. Absolutely n/t

[ValleyGirl]

61. "I belong to no organized party. I am a Democrat" - Will Rogers

I doubt our party will ever have the kind of unified in-step style that the Repukes do. That truly is the Democratic Party's greatest weakness.

On the plus side, atleast we're the cool kids. :headbang: And we're the true compassionates, the smart wonks, the artistic types and the most diverse. I'll take our few weaknesses over anything and everything the Repukes have to offer any day. :pals: