OMG!!! Has somebody passed out the Kool Aid?

[seito]

I am sure that this will be my first thread to be locked but :wtf:

What is up with all of the Kerry bashing tonight. This is NOT about John Kerry. It is not about whether or not he thinks he won. It is not about whether or not he wants to be President. This is about preserving the integrity of the voting process. This is about finding justice for those voters across the country that were categorically disenfranchised. This is about America waking up and taking control of our Nation's future.

Are we so weak that we need to have John Kerry on TV telling us what to do? Is it so unfathomable that our President Elect might just have a better plan than the one you have in mind? We are making incredible progress, but from reading DU tonight, I think I might believe that the sky is falling.

I hope this does not turn into a flame war. For the few and proud Kerry supporter, please feel free to post here and let the other threads slip out of our reality.

No Retreat No Surrender

[Shalom]

1. No Way You Should Be Locked: Right On, seito !! nt

[jamboi]

23. Right on Seito! n/t

[Amaryllis]

30. I am new. Someone please explain reference to getting locked out?

[seito]

38. The moderators may lock a thread

or delete a post if it violates DU rules.

on edit: Welcome to DU :hi:

[Amaryllis]

74. What in Seito's post caused him to think it might be locked out? That's

what I don't understand. What about it did he think might violate the rules?
Thanks!

[seito]

75. The mood on the board at the time this post came out was...

shall we say emotional. There must have been at least five "We are utterly DOOMED and it is all Kerry's fault" threads floating around. I was fairly certain that this thread would provide bait for a flame war with the Kerry bashers. Fortunately, it did not turn out that way.

[angrydemocrat]

84. OMG Is My Eyes Playing Tricks On Me.......

Or did I finally find a tread that they aren't bashing Kerry? WOW!

This shit has been ridiculous tonight. These people have truly lost their damn minds. Hell I think they have turned into a bunch of cannibals the way they are eating their own! :mad: :mad: :mad:

This shit is getting old all these armchair quarterbacks that have elected themselves god, judge, and jury. Hell if they are so damn smart and know it all why the hell why the hell didn't they run for president. It is fucking ridiculous to sit and pass judgment on a man when you don't have all the facts and you don't know for sure what he is doing. It has been obvious that he is involved with all that is going on but yet that don't matter with some people. If the man doesn't come screaming FRAUD, FRAUD and doing some kind of jig they want to piss in the wind and play the blame game and make their nasty snide ass remarks! And I have one thing to those who have elected themselves god, judge, and jury and feel you no know so damn much and you can do everything so much damn better: "FUCK YOU! GET OFF YOUR ASS AND PROVE IT!"

If Kerry's job is such a cakewalk then why don't you get off your judgmental asses and run for president or senate? It is easy to sit back and piss and moan about how he isn't doing enough, how he is doing it all wrong, how he needs to this or that but it is another to walk a mile in in his shoes. If you people poured as much effort into helping as you do trying to bring one of our own down we might get somewhere. You need to remember you have to see all the evidence against the person being accused before you can come out with a fair and accurate verdict. Until you do you sure as hell can't convict. Hell you people want to give someone the death penalty before you have heard or seen any evidence. They are guilty as charged because you say it is so:crazy: Damn what happen to all your brain power or do you only have that when it comes to passing judgment of others.?

[whometense]

114. Wow.

What a great rant! I agree 100%.

[txindy]

2. We're getting so very close.

Junior's people are terrified. Fear makes them type. Don't ask me why. It's a puzzlement. :shrug:

;)

[s-cubed]

5. You are so right! Kerry is not the enemy.

[angrydemocrat]

86. Kick

:kick:

[Patsy Stone]

3. Amen

In English we say "freeping." :)

[angrydemocrat]

87. Kick

:kick:

[WilliamPitt]

4. Speak no ill of any Democrat in public

with a nod to St. Reagan.

[Bill Bored]

7. Not to speak ill of anyone but

it's amazing how many didn't get this in the other thread.

Just think, Arnebeck was on Faux. That IS progress.
It's an honor to be bashed by Hannity. Just ask Colmes!

[Goldeneye]

13. Now that is the kind of attitude we need here

way to see the light. "It's an honor to be bashed by Hannity. Just ask Colmes" ---I seriously love that.

[KittyWampus]

29. Does Colmes Even KNOW He's Being Bashed? Seriously, Does He

even grasp it?

[seito]

14. lol

Colmes is Faux's "Designated Democrat" :spank:

[Jo March]

103. Ah, yes. It works for the 'pubs

As for us, we are too busy eating our young.

[judy]

6. You are right!

This is not about John Kerry or even about who actually won the election!
This is about the integrity of the voting system...Glitches are not OK, tampering, intimidation are not OK.

It is true that all of the irregularities (as far as I know) favored Smirk, and you and I know that the BFEE will stop at nothing to win.
However, this is not the main point.

The main point is : we need to have confidence in our election system. I am amazed that so few members of Congress on either side have tackled this. This is so crucial to the exercise of Democracy.

[IAMREALITY]

8. Hell With The Kerry Bashers

I will NEVER attack an American Fucking War Hero.

NO RETREAT NO SURRENDER BABYYYYY!!!!!!!!

[noclonyofthechimp]

10. Wahooooooooooooooo!

[seito]

12. Reality, You know what SUPPORT THE TROOPS really means

:yourock:

No Retreat No Surrender!!!!! Not in my lifetime

[Griffy]

19. pass the body armor ! nt

[rodeodance]

26. Right on--I have never bashed Kerry and do not intend to srart!!

[angrydemocrat]

88. AMEN!!

KERRY SUPPORTERS :yourock:

[angrydemocrat]

104. KEEP IT KICKIN

KERRY:yourock:

[noclonyofthechimp]

9. Thank You! I ignore them.

[intelle]

I just hope the other threads die

It's hard enough keeping a positive attitude these days and maintaining a will to fight without having to hear Kerry-bashing.

Thanks for this thread!

[Helga Scow Stern]

Who needs FAUX or Limbaugh the way Kerry gets bashed around here,

sometimes.

And based on nothing but supposition, rumors, projections, and the like.

Leaders need to be questioned, always, but character assassination is just not worthy of us.

[Turn CO Blue]

11. Kerry is my President-Elect

and he could bring in a Cabinet of chimpanzees and prisoners from death row -- and it would all be a far sight better than what we have now!

[angrydemocrat]

96. LOL You Got That Right!

KERRY :yourock:

[bunny planet]

15. Thank you Seito, I wholeheartedly agree.

This is not about John Kerry, but he will make an awesome Prez anyway.

[seito]

18. Glad to oblige

I agree with you bunny, he will make a most excellent President.

It is so vital that we keep morale up right now. The enemy is now fighting us openly, and will do anything possible to divide and demoralize us. We need to stand firm.

No Retreat No Surrender

[angrydemocrat]

105. KICK

:kick:

[lizzieforkerry]

16. Thank you! I have purposefully not posted in the other threads.

We need to learn one important Republican lesson- Never back away from someone. Hell they are still trying to defend Kerik. Think what we would have done. I loved Kerry, still do, but this isn't about him. This is about being tired of being hit and finally standing up to our attackers.

[angrydemocrat]

90. LOL

I started out not posting but after I kept read I just started saying what was on my mind and it wasn't nice. I'm sick of it. So they want play their dumbass repug blame games and bashing I say OK two can play at that game. I had enough of the shit so I say "BRING IT ON!"
Hell it is one thing to disagree with someone or how they do something but to go to the point of the nasty ass remarks is to much and damnit if your going say it it better be true. Hell this is getting ridiculous around here.

[Ellipsis]

17. He's waiting for the recount results, hard proof. Timing is everything.

We have to be patient. He will awaken!

k

[Jimdish25]

20. Kerry didn't volunteer to be a sacrificial lamb, but...

on the other hand those of us who invested time and money (heart and soul) understandeably thirst for some leadership from the top (wherever that is?). He needs to keep his credibility by not reacting to every charge that appears on boards like this. I think it would have been nice to have Edwards sit in on the last hearing just to listen and to be seen there. That would have spoken loudly about the concerns of the campaign.

Would I like to see him do more? Yes.

Do I know exactly what that would be? No.

[seito]

27. We would all feel that way

But I would rather win this thing than feel good right now.

I trust in the people that are driving this train. Even if I had doubts, the last thing I would do is attempt to demoralize those people that are out there fighting.

No Retreat No Surrender

[txindy]

32. Just out of curiousity

And because this thread deserves to be kicked ... What kind of leadership from JK are you looking for at this moment? Seriously. I'm not being sarcastic. What could John Kerry possibly ask of us that we aren't already doing? This isn't a concert, we don't require a conductor. We can handle our end. I believe that he's handling his.

As far as I can ascertain, nothing good could come of John Kerry or John Edwards coming forward at this moment and publicly declaring that he is investigating/challenging the election in Ohio.

[vpigrad]

54. It's about leadership

> This isn't a concert, we don't require a conductor.

No, but we require a leader. We require someone who follows through completely.

[txindy]

61. You haven't answered my question, even though you weren't the one I asked

What do you want Kerry to do, exactly? 'Lead' is way too vague. It means nothing without specifics. Specifically, what do you want him to do? If he's handling the fraud investigation legally, he doesn't need public exposure to follow through. In fact, that would hurt us because it would open him up to a constant barrage of attacks by the wingnuts and morans. That would be distracting, at best.

So, what do you want him to do?

[cry baby]

100. There are 2 people we can get behind right now...

John Conyers and Howard Dean. Especially Conyers since he is trying to insure our voting rights. Dr. Dean is out there in the media and not backing down from his progressiveness. Be grateful!

[seito]

60. I think a lot of people out there need reassurance

They think that because they do not see John Kerry on the TV that he is not on top of all of the issues. They think that if the media was more involved in reporting what is going on, somehow that would force the FBI, the Courts, Blackwell etc. to do their job properly.

If you are asking me what I would like JFK to do, I would say use his best judgment and do what he thinks is right. I trust him completely. He knows a hell of a lot more about what is going on than I do.

Oh and send us another nice video complete with cryptic message :loveya:

[txindy]

63. There you go

That makes sense. Let the investigation proceed in the most effective manner. Now, there's a idea!

I've about had it with people wanting K/E to step forward and hold their hands. This is much more important than their emotional comfort. Coming forward now would result in a never-ending cacophony of shrill abuse from the dittofreaks et al. That won't help. In fact, it can't do anything but hurt. All so some impatient, selfish people can get warm fuzzies? :eyes: No. I don't think so.

This investigation will not last forever. I plan to keep on fighting and waiting patiently (some days more patiently than others).

[Bill Bored]

69. Right. Bush had loyalty oathes, we have the video

and the Health Care For Every Child initiative.
I think it was clearly a poll of his supporters, to see who's still with him. Not that he isn't sincere about health care, mind you.

[Kellis]

21. KoolAid is for Kids.

and the kids are running rampant tonight it appears.

The koolaid kids are calling for him because they want to "Gore" him.Plain and simple.Kerry is a smart man :)

Don't let'em get to you.

Rock On fellow DUers.

[txindy]

37. That's exactly right

They want to goad him into acting prematurely just so they can attack him publicly. They can't do that now because he's not a public target. And it's killing them.

Good.

:evilgrin:

[angrydemocrat]

107. KICK

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[Kellis]

112. *Ding Ding Ding*

We should be inspired by all the KoolAid kids :)


Kickin it for Kerry :kick:

[Qutzupalotl]

121. Kick.

Right F'in ON!!

[Mister Ed]

22. No bash Kerry. No bash Bev. Waste of energy. Bash election thieves. n/t

[txindy]

24. Let the other threads sink. Don't post in them. Don't feed them.

They'll sink like rocks if we don't add to them. They can't provoke if no one reads what they type. Most of the posts read as if they type them with their feet, anyway. :evilgrin:

[glitch]

41. No, they've got tag teams - kicking themselves. Just watch them and

learn who they are. It's actually helpful to see who is trying to demoralize and when. Especially when.

We had a good day today, lots to try and distract from.

[seito]

42. Excellent Point

Watch and learn.

[Kellis]

113. Exactly.

They provide an excellent source of what frightened distractors look like :)


:kick:

[txindy]

44. Oh, I know exactly what you're talking about

Yes, they're kicking their own threads, but we shouldn't help them do it. I'm with you on seeing just who is up to what and when. It's fascinating stuff.

I can feel their fear and anger through the screen. We're so close in Ohio and they know it. Golly. :evilgrin:

[LittleClarkie]

49. Ain't that the truth

You can see it's the same people. They're either very intent on being Whiner49ers, or they're psy ops.

Kickin' for Kerry.

[angrydemocrat]

91. LOL

They realy are a bunch of whiners! I need to learn to ignore them but after so long I get mad and just say whats on my mind.


Kickin' for Kerry!

[Razorback_Democrat]

25. Guess I've missed the Kerry bashing!

what happened?

[rodeodance]

28. guess you have. Good nap? ;-)

[txindy]

34. Just scan the thread titles. It's been busy around here.

You can tell Ohio is frightening a lot of people. Certain people, anyway. Please don't respond to them, though. We're trying to let them sink.

[noamnety]

31. No bashing here

Nothing but support for Kerry, and for all those fighting against the fraud.

You want to talk about fraud? I'm listening.

You want to talk about who looked at you funny, or did or didn't do enough for the cause? I'm not interested. I'm thinking they all probably did more than me, all I did was write some letters, make some charts, and go to one protest. I for sure am not sitting in judgment of anyone for not doing enough.

More investigating, more media attention, less bashing.

[seito]

33. Kicking down the Demoralizer Threads

[genieroze]

35. Why would you be locked out?

I noticed it as well but I'm holding my tongue. Let people vent if it makes them feel better. I'll wait until all hope is lost before blasting Kerry. I feel like I have been votejacked.

[seito]

36. Well, I thought I might not be so careful in my wording...

thus insighting a flame war.

I guess my diplomacy got the better of my emotion.

No Retreat No Surrender

[mary195149]

39. REMEMBER, IT 'S NOT JOHN KERRY

that is our enemy, it is the NEO-CONS. Let's stay focused.
John Kerry has not forgotten us. I am sure he is doing all he can even though we don't see him. We will soon enough. He knows how hard we are working on this. And if he has given up, he would of told us the fight is over. Let's have faith in him.

[merh]

40. I am allergic to kool aid!

That pitcher guy scares the shit out of me!


(I post to the whining babies that want a leader that they need to conduct some introspection to try to determine why they need "daddy" to come tell them everything will be okay. Sounds like it is a deep rooted problem they need to deal with.)

[angrydemocrat]

92. LMAO

The pitcher guy should scare the hell out of anybody that still has a little sanity left. Here lately people must be out of Jack Daniels and Coca Cola and hitting the kool-aid or we have had a major invasion of freepers one. Either way it is scary as hell!

[angrydemocrat]

93. DUPE

[texpatriot2004]

43. They must have Seito, they're everywhere, they're everywhere

[ewulf]

45. I support John Kerry.

I have no doubt that he has a plan, that he has more information about what really happened on November 2nd than we do. I suspect that he understands that the more grassroots and nonpartisan action there is on this, and the less pressure from him, the more legitimate this process of election verification and fraud detection is. By letting people like us uncover the truth, perhaps, he is letting the truth will shine brighter. At the same time, the involvement of Republicans like Katherine Blackwell helps ensure that they are tarnished by their own fraud.

Even if he doesn't have such a plan, he's a good man and a good investigator. He'll find out the truth one day, and maybe he'll even be president.

[seito]

47. Thanks ewulf

I share your sentiments.

Regardless of your feelings about John Kerry, the presidential candidate, he is and will always be a war hero, a patriot and an advocate for the issues that we believe in.

I will NEVER engage in the public bashing of this honorable gentleman. NEVER.

No Retreat No Surrender

[ewulf]

55. Thank you, seito.

Unnecessary infighting serves no one, building unity helps us all. Thank you for starting this thread.

Al Gore may backed down numerous times in 2000, but he's still a great man and would have been a great president. He has proven himself an asset to our nation in the times since then. No matter what happens between now and 1/6, I have no doubt I'll be able to say the same thing about John Kerry.

[Blue_In_AK]

46. Oh, I do like this thread so much better.

Thank you, Seito. Those other guys were really starting to get to me.

[seito]

51. Keep the Faith Blue

They would not be here if we were not close.

Today was a Very Good Day for the Good Guys.

No Retreat No Surrender

[Firespirit]

48. Kick!!

For the thread:

:kick: :kick: :kick:

For (perhaps in a few weeks President-Elect??) John Kerry:

:loveya: :loveya:


We're so close now to busting this wide open. Conyers is on it, Arnebeck is on it, and YES I believe Kerry is on it! Let's not forget that he asked Jesse to be more active in the investigation, and the next day Jesse filed the LAWSUIT!

[merh]

50. Watch out

<>

[Verve]

52. mmmm... looks good! Cherry flavored! My favorite!

:9

[merh]

57. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

don't drink it, it will make you vote, think, act and smell funny.

Consumption of water and the truth is much better for your health and the health of our nation.

[ewulf]

78. I drank some cheep, knock off of cool-aid this evening.

Nasty, Nasty, Nasty cheep ass knock off. "Fruit Punch" they call it, and it was is my house, so I had some.

It came from a wrapper, in powdered form.

The first cup was good, but by the second cup, my mouth was overwhelmed with nasty aftertaste.

Yuck!

[Straight Shooter]

53. An oasis of support and reason in a desert of fear and finger-pointing

Thanks, Seito!

Gosh, I just left DU for a few hours to have dinner with friends, and it looks like I got back just in time.

HEY JOHN KERRY -- YOU CAN COUNT ON ME!

[txindy]

58. It's been a whirlwind

It was raining Kool-Aid, too. And it reeked of fear. Fear of the wheels flying off in Ohio, specifically.

Bummer.

:evilgrin:

[WildEyedLiberal]

56. Thanks for this thread, seito

:yourock:

This thread makes me feel really good. I actually got a post deleted for responding to the whiners with rather strong words, so from now on, I won't even click on their whiny-assed threads. You're right - they don't deserve my time or energy; let 'em sink.

I believe in John Kerry, and feel he's got the most integrity of any of our candidates since Carter (but with a greater political acumen). I hope against all hope that he is my president one day, and that whatever happens tomorrow, next week, next year, or in the next four years, he brings the Bush bastards down in flames. He can do it, and I have faith in him. So I'm ready to watch and wait - I want front row tickets to the Fall of the BushReich. It's imminent, folks - my gut instinct and my historian's intuition tell me so.

I wonder how defeaning the silence of Kerry's detractors will be when he does prove that he will fight for us, for America, until the bitter end?

No retreat, no surrender!

[angrydemocrat]

95. LMAO WildEyedLiberal

I haven't went back to check on my previous post on other threads but they are probably deleted as well. I got sick of their whiny asses and went off and just said what was on my mind. When I first posted on this thread I left a message for them if they happen to be lurking on this one. This shit is getting ridiculous.


KICKIN FOR KERRY!

[Bobbie47]

59. Thank You, Seito

No Retreat No Surrender


:thumbsup:

[Up2Late]

62. EVERYONE Check out this tread

Smoking gun alert :bounce:

<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x165900>

[seito]

64. All you LEFTeous Warriors

You know who you are and you all Rock.

You know what to do when they gather round and start circling the wagons. We will get a whole lot more "insurgents" the closer we get. We need a strong counter. Let them nay say among themselves. Just watch, learn and take notes. If you feel like you need to respond, I recommend a copycat thread, they are always fun and quite inspirational.

It might look tasty but...Don't drink that Kool Aid.

No Retreat No Surrender

On edit: Impeached the Right

[ginnyinWI]

65. wonderful thread!

truly inspiring. (as for the last, maybe you should say "lefteous warriors"?!)

Dems absolutely must learn not to tear each other down in public view! We are an independent-minded bunch and each has their own ideas of what should be done, but we have to get organized or we'll never get anywhere. That's what being part of a group is.

As for the troll-folk, I say if everyone here promises to stop trashing Kerry, they will start sticking out and we'll know them immediately! Or in other words, trash Kerry and you will be suspected.

There are plenty of more productive things to talk about, everyone. And who knows, it might prevent us from looking a little sheepish if JK surprises us--and he has surprised us before, make no mistake.

[seito]

66. You are Correct I shall edit. lol!!!

[Firespirit]

67. Naysayers: Think back

Think back to November 3.

If you were asked "what will we be discussing on December 16th" THEN, would any of you have laid money on it being computer tampering and recount fraud?

We have come a long way.

And Kerry helped. Maybe it wasn't extremely public, but I'm not going to gainsay him.

I have a theory about Kerry, and it has nothing to do with spinelessness, apathy, collusion, or any of the charges that have been leveled at him. I'm seeing a pattern. I think he voted for the war resolution because he didn't believe that anyone entrusted with the presidency would abuse the powers. I think he conceded on 11/3 because he didn't have evidence of fraud and it wasn't in his nature to suspect it without any evidence. That's what Jesse Jackson suggested, and he'd spoken with him about it.

In short, Kerry is not as cynical as we are. His actions are a testimony to his decency and trust in humanity. I'll grant that it's wholly unfounded if it concerns * & Co., but I have suspicions that he's learned some hard lessons and lost some illusions over the past month. He knows who he's up against now.

I for one am PROUD that we managed to do this much without him leading us around on a leash!

[ginnyinWI]

68. yes, and remember the time he said,

referring to the repub campaign people when he thought his mic was off, that he couldn't believe what a bunch of lying crooks they were, or something to that effect?
I agree with your theory--he himself is so principled, decent and honorable that maybe he does have a lifetime habit of giving people too much credit. Either that or he knows it was the best strategy. Surely they in the campaign must have talked about the possibilities.

[LittleClarkie]

71. Good points

It took me an amazingly long time to understand that Bush and Co. were using 9/11 politically. I thought they were wrong-headed, misguided and incompetent, but wrapping my head 'round the idea that they would take one of the worst days in our collective memories and use it for their own ends took me forever. Even now my brain looks for alternatives, that they actually think that the neo-con plan is the way to deal with terrorism. Some in the administration might. But others, like Cheney, have dollar signs in their eyes -- cha-ching! That's so entirely heinous, it's almost inconceivable. It's positively Unamerican.

I agree with your assessment of how Kerry's mind was working. I've read the speech he gave on the Senate floor. I've read the accounts of what he was doing and how he was feeling right after 9/11. I've read his book on international terrorism from 1997, where he practically predicts an event like 9/11. This was a serious subject for him, one he's been focused on forever. And he was very, very angry after 9/11. And so he chose to believe the president would do the right thing and believe the evidence they were shown that even we didn't get to see.

I don't think he'll ever make that mistake again.

I think Kerry could understand Nixon-style corruption. But this administration is so insanely past anything Nixon ever dreamed about it boggles the mind.

As I've said, Kerry was in some ways a sleeping giant. And now they've gone and woken him. Not a good idea, that. It's not a fast process. It appears from his usual pattern he has to work his way into these things step by step, fighting through normal channels first, then building.

I put no stipulations on what I expect Kerry to do. The dude's smarter than I am, and knows way more than I do, so who am I to say he should be doing one thing or another. I expect him to be active. And I will be watching with interest. For though I'm no giant, I'm awake now too.

[txindy]

72. Excellent post. I really enjoyed reading that. And I agree with you.

[Firespirit]

73. He is obsessive-compulsive... in the best way.

As I've said, Kerry was in some ways a sleeping giant. And now they've gone and woken him. Not a good idea, that. It's not a fast process. It appears from his usual pattern he has to work his way into these things step by step, fighting through normal channels first, then building.


It's the inner prosecutor. Gather the facts before risking your reputation and harming the credibility of your case. It's a serious thing to charge someone with vote tampering, and you'd better have something to back it up. And by signing on to the newest lawsuit, he has effectively made that charge.

If he'd made allegations of computer fraud on 11/3 or so, with nothing to back it up, then in all likelihood he would have been pounded into oblivion and the subject would never have been addressed. Now the facts are trickling out. One good thing about our enemies -- when they are being closed in on, they screw up. That is happening already.

One thing Kerry is NOT, is a slacker. He's completely meticulous to the point of being obsessive-compulsive. I for one can't work that way, I am willing to make allegations just for the sake of opening the subject -- but then, that's me, and I'm not a public figure.

It takes all kinds, I guess. And besides, it's UN-LIBERAL to pass judgment on those who have a different but perfectly decent modus operandi.

[ewulf]

79. Beautiful, Just Beautiful...

I'm feeling a lot more awake these days myself. I too fell victim to the same, MSM inspired sense of impossibility, that there were limits that presidents just don't cross, so there's no point in discussing them. Hell, I even kinda supported the war in Iraq at first, in a "well, it could turn out for the best" Friedmanesque kind of way, but it didn't take long for that to wear off. I'm certainly in no position to question John Kerry on any of his calls in that regard.

[Withywindle]

80. Thank you, Firespirit...

...And that really helped something click into place in my head. Because some of the things he hasn't done that I think he should have done I've been trying to connect what they all have in common, it's something I couldn't quite put my finger on. It's definitely not mendacity or cowardliness, and I'm pretty sure "naivete" isn't the right word either, but it's closer. It's late, I don't think I have a word for "always wanting to believe the best of people" on the ol' desktop right now. It's a strange quality in someone who did so much to expose the BIGGEST war crimes of Vietnam (from the leaders, not the soldiers) and was a prosecutor and knew all about the pure evil of Iran-Contra, etc., but if he still has it after all that and these years, well, good for him. It's a very good quality for a progressive statesman, even if it makes the election process extra-horrifying.

Wanna know what I think? I think there is no way that on November 3, he believed that he really won and it was stolen from him. I think he knew some fraud was very possible and very likely but still couldn't bring himself to believe in it on this kind of scale. If he'd won the popular vote and had a linchpin state with an eensy-weensy margin like Gore, I KNOW he would have fought like hell, but as far he knew, he didn't. I believe his concession was sincere.

I think that obviously he has tons of information we don't--but I also think he's learning about the size and scale after the fact just like we are. And probably getting angrier and angrier.

I'd also like to point out that believing you really lost the election and working to expose the fraud/making sure every vote counts are NOT mutually exclusive. Isn't that exactly what Cobb and Badnarik are doing? But if you're a hotpoint for controversy, the public face of the "losing" side, and a celebrity, shouldn't your approach be very different? Getting the media howling has some big pros sometimes (certainly can makes your supporters, especially the fair-weather ones, feel better) but sometimes some even bigger cons. Especially if you're trying to find out what REALLY happened in any given case. The media's all noise, no signal these days. (We'll never know for sure if Scott Peterson really did it. Or Kobe or Michael Jackson or anybody who gets sucked into the pundit collisseum.) Kerry's sure learned that the hard way already.

[Firespirit]

115. Agreed.

I think he knew some fraud was very possible and very likely but still couldn't bring himself to believe in it on this kind of scale.

That's quite reasonable and I can understand it. On that day I was still counting on the provos and undercount. After the provisionals were shown to be a wash, by then stuff was trickling out suggesting widespread machine failure -- e.g., the precincts going 40% for Peroutka, etc. I figured that Florida had been hacked and Ohio was just riddled with incompetence and screwups--at least, in the counting.

One day recently I said pretty much the same to my sister, that I didn't really think there had been electronic fraud affecting tens of thousands of votes. Then, the next day, the Ohio Supreme Court thing broke. (Now I have to shut down my psychic service... ;)) It was only in the past couple weeks that I accepted the idea of massive fraud, myself. It's such an atrocity.

[ebayfool]

70. OK, non *ush family teachers- I will write on THIS blackboard 100 times...

let the other threads slip out of our reality!

Hard to not jump up when someone starts slamming him though. I'll be good!

#1

[ebayfool]

76. Let the other threads slip out of our reality!

#2

[EFerrari]

77. seito, is there a difference in your world between bashing

someone and holding someone accountable for their promises?

[ebayfool]

81. Let the other threads slip out of our reality!

#3

[EFerrari]

82. Repeat after me, "These aren't the droids you're looking for.."

[angrydemocrat]

97. sfexpat2000 -

WHAAAAAA WHAAAAAA WHAAAAAAA:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

[seito]

111. AngryDemocrat

:hi:

BTW they are looking for you in the JFK Forum.

[txindy]

99. Thank you

This thread needed some kicks. :kick:

If you're going to take 'Star Wars' out of context, do try to remember that Luke ultimately beat the Emperor and Vader by NOT fighting them.

Here's your hat.

[ewulf]

83. Honestly, Yes.

All of this overblown, anti-Kerry stuff tonight is really weird, and really annoying. Its OK to criticize the man, but to claim that he is singlehandedly destroying American democracy is quite another. I hope by the time I wake up tomorrow this crap will have died down a bit.

[LittleClarkie]

89. As I said in the other thread, which is now kicked so I'm sorry I did

It seems like every time Kerry makes a move, someone pipes up with "He's not fighting!" It's weird. He didn't promise to make himself president. He promised to make sure every vote is counted. He's doing that. That's all he promised. He did not promise to make sure it all happened before January, or that fighting to have every vote counted would make him president.

Some people seem to think that grandstanding now would get us the attention we need to make the media listen, so that the fraud would get attention and somehow magically Bush wouldn't be inaugurated in January.

And those who say that unofficial inquiries mean nothing forget that Kerry's Iran/Contra investigation was unofficial too. Such things have been known to lead to OFFICIAL investigations. Just not right away.

Promise me y'all will continue to fight for vote reform even if Bush is inaugurated. Okay?

[rodeodance]

94. sure will--

[bunny planet]

119. Promise.

[seito]

120. Absolutely

No Retreat No Surrender

[angrydemocrat]

85. KICK

:kick:

[angrydemocrat]

98. sfexpat2000

:boring: :boring: :boring: :boring:

[seito]

110. When a post has no positive effect...

When its sole purpose is to demoralize those that are fighting for what they believe in. When the comments are not constructive and do nothing more than degrade, demean and scandalize John Kerry because he is not doing "what they want him to do," it falls into my personal category of "Kerry Bashing".

In my world, we hold all of our leaders accountable for their promises, and in my world, John Kerry has kept every one. I do not need an hourly status report from him to know that he is keeping his promise to me.

If you have another theory fine. What can you do that is CONSTRUCTIVE based upon your theory. If you have an idea on how to further this cause, please share. It has been said time and time again, we do more damage than FAUX could possibly do.

Compare what we have now to what we had in 2000. We tried it the other way. IT DID NOT WORK. It would not have worked this time, no matter how many lawyers we had on the ground, no matter how loud our advocates screamed. What the coalition of Greens, Libs, Dems, ABB etc. are doing is the only plan that has any chance of bringing Justice to the American people.

BTW- Please take note of who is fiercely trying to "Hold John Kerry" accountable. Remember that even though we share a forum, we do not all share similar goals.

Keep the Faith

No Retreat No Surrender

[txindy]

101. kicking for the truth

:kick:

[angrydemocrat]

102. Kicking Hard

Get to the truth and get rid of the naysyers!:kick: :kick:

[molly]

106. I've been away for a few days, but it looks

the immature little brats are still at it.

"Is it so unfathomable that our President Elect might just have a better plan than the one you have in mind? We are making incredible progress, but from reading DU tonight, I think I might believe that the sky is falling."

[slackmaster]

108. It's about getting all votes counted accurately no matter who wins

IMO.

[bardgal]

109. I agree x INFINITY!

well said! I'm so sick of the left eating our own.

[seito]

116. Please don't feed the trolls

You know where they are. :freak:

When you throw their kool aid back at them in their warped threads, you kick them back to the top. Just ignore them and let have their drama alone.


No Retreat No Surrender

[texpatriot2004]

117. Seito, you are so right. Starve the trolls, let them eat elsewhere

[seito]

118. Kool Aid Check

UM UM Good...

Did you drink it????

[New Earth]

122. you aren't f*cking kidding!

today has been the worst. wtf is going on around here? everyone is losing it.....

we need some straighforward updates or somethig so people will stop arguing.

[lonestarnot]

123. Bleacher space bought up by repulsives in DC for 20th

Wonder how well bleachers w/o screws work?