Democracy in America is about to die because of the BUSH ADMIN!!

[berni_mccoy]

Stop blaming John Kerry for losing this election. Blaming John Kerry for losing is like blaming a rape victim for being raped!

I wish people would knock this self-destructive introspection off. It's good to look for your own faults, but CMON people... it's pretty clear now we didn't lose this on fair terms.

On Edit:
If we did lose fair-and-square, I have to wonder if it's really because of the extreme negative attitude of some of the people on this forum!

[New Earth]

1. thank you!

stop blaming Kerry!!!

[rockedthevoteinMA]

2. Thank you berni!

:hi:

[texpatriot2004]

3. Thank you berni_mccoy I agree 100% n/t

[HEAVYHEART]

4. Thank you

I'm sick and tired of it myself. :grr:

[libertypirate]

5. here here!

The criminals are destroying democracy.

[merh]

6. Thanks for the post!

You are exactly right! :thumbsup:

[intelle]

7. Absolutely!

[Not_Giving_Up]

8. Bravo! n/t

[seito]

9. KNOW YOUR ENEMY

Hint: It is not John Kerry

Thanks for this Brilliant Post

:yourock:

No Retreat No Surrender

[BikeWriter]

10. You're right!

We were robbed in 2000 AND in 2004! I, for one, am damn sick and tired of the thievin' bastids!

[bones_7672]

11. So, on edit, you are blaming people who voted for Kerry for Kerry's loss??

[berni_mccoy]

18. See my post #17 below (eom)

[ElsewheresDaughter]

12. Democracy died on December 12, 2000

[Griffy]

19. died no... coma... be in DC on the 6th and wake democracy up! nt

[texpatriot2004]

24. Hmm, I kind of like that coma metaphor. n/t

[texpatriot2004]

23. I was just reading alst night about the clerks in the US Supreme

court who witnessed the partisan actions of the judges. Justice Stephens had it right, that the perception would be that the US Supreme Court by getting involved in the 2000 election had stopped dispensing justice and started making partisan rulings. He was so right.

[MarianJack]

13. Yeaaaa For You, berni_mccoy!

Well and truly said! :bounce: :kick: :thumbsup: :headbang: :yourock:

[texpatriot2004]

14. Thanks berni_mccoy

[jojogunn]

15. what i see as the problem

was kerry's quick capitulation on nov. 3.

by bowing to bush before all the votes were counted, kerry created a rift in his support. now, as we watch from the sidelines of the ohio vote scandal, kerry supporters have no where to turn, no leadership to look toward to stand up and demand our rights as citizens.

kerry could have and should have been our front man, yet he is conspicuously absent. imho, that is the well-spring of the negativity you perceive on these boards. it is hard not to feel that we have been had.

where is your source for optimism?

[Yuugal]

16. speaking of fair.....

"""If we did lose fair-and-square, I have to wonder if it's really because of the extreme negative attitude of some of the people on this forum!""""

If we did lose fair-and-square, how can the depressed attitudes after the election have affected anything? IMO DU was roaring with enthusiasm before the vote. The only unhappy people seemed to me to be the people who were convinced there would be massive cheating. Since I thought it was gonna be a Kerry landslide I didn't think the 3-5% KKKarl would steal would matter. Whoops!

Now I am depressed as all hell and am second-guessing Kerry's actions before and after the elections, but its not because I don't like the guy. Its because we seemingly lost and I want to discuss with other people where we could have done better. Just saying, "Kerry is my man and he did everything right" isn't going to help win us the next election.

15,000 lawyers on the ground!!! Woohoo!!! But its Arneback, KO, Bev, Madsen, and Conyers as our starting linemen? A lot of people gave money into the Kerry recount kitty and they'd like to know whats going on. I still hope Kerry has a master plan and that its just not necessary for us to know the details of the plan yet. I just don't blame anyone at this point for saying he doesn't have a plan based on what we've seen or not seen so far.

[berni_mccoy]

17. Saying something

like Democracy will die because of John Kerry is NON PRODUCTIVE BS that hurts the morale of the people ACTAULLY TRYING TO DO SOMETHING POSITIVE.

This can be said for any number of negative postings on this forum started by people trying to gain attention or get those who are trying to accomplish something to give up.

That's whay I mean when I say "I wonder if it's because some of the extreme negative attitudes here".

The campaign was full of naysayers who weren't shy of coming out and lambasting Kerry's campaign. Rightly so or not, dissing your candidate's campaign is NO WAY TO WIN. I feel completely fair and justified in what I said on edit.

[Yuugal]

21. true

"""The campaign was full of naysayers who weren't shy of coming out and lambasting Kerry's campaign. Rightly so or not, dissing your candidate's campaign is NO WAY TO WIN. """

True. But at the end, especially after the first debate, I think everyone pulled together for the team.

I live in NY and don't even get a say on who the candidate will be each time so it makes me bitter. Now here I am after this loss(hopefully near-loss), bound and determined to make sure we run a better campaign next time that listens to more to the common voters and not what the party hacks think.

This party has been run by hacks long enough. They haven't won in congress in 10 yrs, and if it wasn't for Perot they probably wouldn't have won the presidency either during that time. The last 3 elections in 2000,2002, and 2004 were just plain cluster-fucks. Something needs to be done and rather than having the hacks at the top yell at us for our failings: too liberal, too godless, whatever....I'd like to yell at them for being total failures and demand some fresh faces and new ideas.

This is a golden opportunity to take back our party from the go along to get along people, and make it stand for something. 30 years ago the right wing of the republican party was only starting to make themselves heard. After watergate they were almost irrelevant as a party for a short while. The right wingers started screaming and getting their people in top spots and eventually they took over the whole thing and had a lot of success. I hope the populist left wing of our party can do the same thing. It sure worked for the reps.

[Paligal]

20. What do you mean, "About to"?

It's been dying for years.

[berni_mccoy]

27. Sorry, I didn't pick the title

My title is a parody of another NEGATIVE oriented posting. You can probably figure out what it said. The point of my post is to request that people stop being overly negative... I'm depressed and angry too... but I choose to focus those emotions into positive reason and action.

I agree... we've been at risk of losing our democracy for a long time... Another reason I don't think it's right to blame Kerry (or any individual for that matter).

[angrydemocrat]

22. Thank You Berni

John F. Kerry is a true American patriot that loves his country and respects and will fight for the rights of all Americans even those who disagree with him. He is a man with a heart the size of Texas and the strength and knowledge to be a great leader. He is a man of intelligence that can see all sides of an issue and can incorporate all available data be for he makes a decision. He is contemplative and thorough. He is a a man with the rare qualities we need in our political environment today. John Kerry is in fact the right man, at the right place, at the right time.

John Kerry knows exactly what he is doing and doesn't need a bunch of armchair quarterbacks that have elected themselves god, judge, and jury trying to tell him how to do his job. If all the armchair quarterbacks that are so quick to judge this man know so much more than he does, can do everything so much better than he has and continues to try to do, and have such great ideals that can get such great results so much quicker then why are you not the presidential candidate? why are you not a senator? Why are you not out there putting your brainy know it all judgmental asses to work for your country and the American people. Why haven't you dedicated your whole life to serving your country trying to help those that are less fortunate? It is to sit back and pass judgment on a man it is another to walk a mile in his shoes.

It is ridiculous to be passing judgment on a man when you don't know the whole story and don't have all the facts. Until you have seen and heard all the evidence you cannot come out with a fair and accurate verdict and you sure as hell can't convict.

Because Kerry hasn't ran out in front of the TV cameras screaming FRAUD, FRAUD, and dance a crazy jig for the media, repugs, and those who are paranoid as hell and cannot except the fact that everything in this world is stark black and white, doesn't mean that he is not working just as hard as anyone else on the issues that are facing all of us. Now I know if this man can bring down investigate and bring down BCCI in seven countries and served indictments for grand larceny, bribery, and money laudering this man can investigate and bring down the assholes behind the fraud.

Now how many of you that are so quick to judge this man have ever even come close to an accomplishment as great as this? And don't act like it is nothing or that it happen so far in the past the man has lost his touch because first off he has since this case helped with other great things and the actual year BCCI was shut down was 1991. And the man put the people of this country before his political career to bring down BCCI. So to say that all the man is worried about now is his political career and not the people who supported him is ridiculous. Because this is a man that has proven he will do what is best for this country and the American people before he worries about his own career.

Kerry will come out when he has what it takes to bring these assholes down. He will not come out before regardless of what others want him to do. He knows what he is doing. Kerry is smart enough to know when he does come out with guns blazing that he has to have enough ammo to bring the enemy down quick and not give them a chance to fire back. This is bigger than just overturning a presidential election. Because if something isn't done to bring down the assholes that committed fraud, and in the right way to where they don't just get a slap on the wrist, and in fact face fail or prison time over this then you have accomplished nothing.

Kerry knows this and will not quit until the fraud issue is taken care of and this broken election process we have is fixed. Does this mean Kerry doesn't want to win the election? Hell No it doesn't this man wanted to win this election more than anyone. Has he quit trying to get the evidence it would take to overturn it? Hell no he hasn't again this man wanted to win this more than anyone. So why is he not screaming bloody murder about all this? Kerry knows without enough proof to overturn the election there is no since in all the screaming yet. And this man is just as pissed as anyone else over this. But Kerry realizes that unless he can overturn it he needs not to come out till they get what they have to have to prosecute the assholes behind this shit.

Kerry understands this is not only about him and he has to do what is right for the American people. He knows if they don't get to the bottom of this now more Senate and House seats will be stolen in 2006. He understands what the hell has to be done here. He also understands that if they cannot get what they have to have to turn this election by Jan 6 that this has to get fixed and quick. Because as of now we all know the repukes control the House and Senate and if they don't get this election process fixed before the 2006 that there will be No chance in getting enough Democratic senators and congressmen to have a chance at impeachment of the evil bastard that is claiming he has a mandate and trying to destroy us and our country. Kerry hasn't given up on nothing. He is working his ass off just as others to solve this whole mess. But Kerry isn't the only one in this fight and instead of eating our own we should be working as a team to destroy the neocons. The bigger the team the better.

[Blue_In_AK]

29. Thank you

[McCamy Taylor]

25. Democracy survived Joe McCarthy, it will survive Dumbya

[seabeyond]

26. bush fucks up and the dems try to figure what they did wrong

has happened time and time again

bushco's just a giggle in glee

[ElementaryPenguin]

28. Kerry is like a rape victim that won't press charges!

Of course it's Bush's fault- EVERYTHING is - but the Dems have proven such a weak opposition party!