Breaking...Washington State Former Secretary of State pushes for new vote

[Andy_Stephenson]

Former Secretary of State Ralph Munro, a key supporter of Republican Dino Rossi during the contentious recounts in Washington's race for governor, says it may be time to toss out all of the votes and do the election over.

Munro, who oversaw the state's elections system for 20 years before retiring in 2000, said a new vote is probably the only way to restore voter confidence and get a clear winner.

His comments came as the state Republican Party prepared to file a lawsuit against King County seeking to stop the county's recount, and votes reported from Snohomish County further tightened the race between Rossi and Democrat Christine Gregoire.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002122517_recount17m.html

[rumpel]

1. As realization of a possible loss sets in....

[Andy_Stephenson]

3. No...

King county Election Administrators have screwed the pooch big time on this.

If anyone is to blame it is them. I know the people in the county (Dean Logan and Bill Hunnekins aka honeybuns) and inept is a kind word for them.

[RaulVB]

44. They lost!

"Get over it..."

[havocmom]

2. So, they don't like recounts but 'do-overs' are OK?

Man, Andy, how do you put up with them? You are truly an inspiration. Thank you. You are well thought of.

Peace & Strength!
hm

[Lucky Luciano]

4. No shit, huh???? (See below)

The (Republican) lawsuit alleges the ballots had not been properly secured since the Nov. 2 election and that an investigation is necessary because "the appearance of possible impropriety is troubling."

<snip>

We can't have any pesky improprieties in an election afterall!

[The Judged]

23. Republicans left the doors open* just in case they needed this argument!

*and witnessed it themselves!

[life_long_dem]

30. You can in Ohio, but not in Washington State. n/t

[rjbny62]

38. what will the repubs say when the dems file a similar lawsuit in OH?

isn't this the same situation? ballots were not properly secured there either.

[UncleSepp]

47. It is the same. Let's make a deal.

Maybe I'm just idealistic, but it seems like a deal could be made here to get members of both parties on the same side.

[Daybreaker]

60. That's the approach I've been taking.

I've been telling Republicans that stop and talk to me while I'm protesting that I absolutely love the fact that they're suddenly concerned with election fraud in my state of Washington, and that they're more than welcome to stand next to me as I protest it in Ohio.

This is perfect, when you think about it. Suddenly, a whole bunch of Republicans are doing our work for us. This could be that strange set of circumstances that succeeds in pulling us all together.

Of course, we need to do our part. We need to not put up roadblocks or resistance to the Republicans as they try to establish clean elections in Washington. I'm a Gregoire supporter, so I admit it's risky at this point, but I think she'll win a clean election anyway.

[Carolab]

5. HONESTLY!

These people are the biggest two-faced jackoffs on the planet. Whatever works for THEM, right?

Like those Republican jerks in Texas who decided to make the state legislature decide who won--WHEN THREE DEMS WON THE VOTES!!!

[regularjoe]

14. What happened in Texas? I didn't hear about that. n/t

[Carolab]

20. A guy named Hubert Vo

won, along with two other Dems in representatives races and the REPUKES decided they'd take it up with the state legislature and let them decide! I haven't heard how this came out yet. Vo has a message on his website that he has a "huge team" to help him fight off Heflin.

That's sure what it looks like to me: http://pmbryant.typepad.com/b_and_b/2004/11/mysacom_met...

From the San Antonio Express-News today:


Two Republicans defeated Nov. 2 will submit paperwork today asking the GOP-majority Texas House to throw out official vote tallies and name them winners of their respective races or force new elections, advisers predicted Tuesday.

A third defeated candidate, Republican Rep. Ken Mercer of San Antonio, will decide by today whether to join the others in contesting his 498-vote loss to Democratic challenger David Leibowitz, his campaign manager said.

A recount already has been scheduled for next week for Rep. Talmadge Heflin, R-Houston, who fell by 32 votes to Houston businessman Hubert Vo.

Heflin, scheduled to hold a news conference today, has identified "hundreds" of instances in which ineligible voters cast ballots, but he will withdraw his contest from House consideration if he prevails over Vo in the recount, spokesman Craig Murphy said.

Vo's campaign manager, Karen Loper, said Vo would have no comment because Heflin hadn't yet announced that he will contest the results.

Eric Opiela of Karnes City, who lost a House race to Democratic candidate Yvonne Gonzalez-Toureilles of Alice by 835 votes, reaffirmed his plans to challenge the results, based on what he says are many instances of ineligible voters casting ballots.

Thursday, when state offices will be closed, is the deadline for contesting elections in the House.

[regularjoe]

62. Thanks. n/t

[rumpel]

6. What does State law say? Does that mean all races?

[Andy_Stephenson]

7. Only the race for

Gov. Would be revoted.

[Broken Acorn]

8. We'll let them revote WA if we can revote OH

[skids]

26. THAT's a nice sounding deal there. :-) n/t

[Carolab]

9. ONLY IF THEY WANT TO REFUND US THE DIFFERENCE

How much did it cost to recount Washington?

GRRRRRR!!!!!!!!

[regularjoe]

11. About $700,000. n/t

[Andy_Stephenson]

18. $750,000

peanuts compared to the lawyers fees about to be billed.

[SomthingsGotaGive]

22. speaking of cash....

Andy, I promise not to Hijack this thread or even post follow ups if you reply or not.

But if I may ask you.....

Ball park, how much money has BlackBoxvoting.org collected since Nov 2?

I have no desire to see any "pile on" so I'll leave it at that and hope others with a similar question will respect that it has been asked and await an answer.

My condolences on the treatment you have received from the BBV.org BoD, you seem to have a lot of credible friends here that support you.

Steve.

[Andy_Stephenson]

24. I was not privy to the finances

So I cannot answer that question accurately.

[moesse]

27. Andy, I'm a newbie, but deepest

sympathies over your sister. This has been a wrenching time for you I'm sure... If there is anything that I can do... [e-mail]

[uppityperson]

50. &750,000 to start it, much more to complete the whole thing. n/t

[geniph]

65. The money was raised by private interests and individuals

it wasn't state-funded, at least not the hand recount. The first, state-law-required, recount was taxpayer funded, but this one was not.

[rumpel]

10. "smooth elections" we had, as they say

how embarrassing

[Tweed]

12. They must have just got their election-rigging equipment delivered

It was being used in Ohio, but now it's available.

[Senator]

13. Say hello to Ralph Munro

Former state official elected VoteHere chair
2003-12-02
Associated Press

BELLEVUE -- Former Washington state Secretary of State Ralph Munro has been elected chairman of the board of VoteHere Inc., the electronic voting technology company announced Monday.

Munro, a former president of the National Association of Secretaries of State and co-chairman of the International Task Force of the Council of State Governments, was elected by the board to succeed Adm. Bill Owens, who is leaving to join the board of Daimler Chrysler.


2004 U.S. presidential election controversy
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Cipher Labs Certification of VoteHere Election System 3.0.0.33

System:
VoteHere Election System 3.0.0.7 program running on Linux RedHat 7.1, MySQL 3.23.36, Apache 1.3.12, Mozilla 0.8, CryptoF, 4.1, Libxml 2.2.1I, Zlib 1.1.3, OpenSSL 0.9.5a, STLPort 4.0, Various Active X controls, on a ProLiant ML330e platform.

Functional tests:
Software testing and verification - "Firmware not reviewed"
Security testing and verification - "Not applicable, not reviewed"

___
www.thedeanpeople.org

[Andy_Stephenson]

15. Glad you went there

I was hoping someone other than me would.

[freeplessinseattle]

21. hmmm, that is verrrry interesting, thank you. (nt)

[Viktor Runeberg]

59. That's an open source voting system, dammit

Having a open-source based voting system is exactly what we need. It's good he's helping bring that about.

[Andy_Stephenson]

61. Sorry it is not

Vote Here is crypto...it is secret.

To much to go into now...but later today I will.

[Andy_Stephenson]

16. See this related article as well

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x171343

[regularjoe]

17. I remember reading about Munro in Black Box Voting...

"VoteHere may be trying to make a comeback with its Internet voting
concept. It hired former Washington State Secretary of State Ralph
Munro<\b> as its chairman. Pam Floyd, who had worked for Washington
state elections director David Elliott, left to take a position with
VoteHere for three years; she recently became Washington’s assistant
state elections director, and she oversees Washington’s Internet
SERVE project. Washington state is now leaving the door open (through
legislation proposed by Munro crony<\b> and current secretary of state Sam Reed) to arrange for more Internet voting in the state."
- "Black Box Voting" by Bev Harris. Chapter 8. Page 12 of the .pdf from www.blackboxvoting.org


Sounds like Bev doesn't think much of Ralph Munro.

regularjoe

[Andy_Stephenson]

19. Unfortunately...

Ralph is "loved" by many in the state. That is why VoteHere hired him.

[skids]

25. OK, that settles it. The next time....

A freeper starts telling me how we should stop whining and the election is over, and we just can't give up and it's going to go on and on and on... I'm just going to write one word.


HYPOCRITES!

[bemis12]

28. Revote = Not happening

Not here, not in the presidential election. It takes something extraordinary for the courts to order a new election, and neither of these races has such a thing.

[catgirl]

31. Machine rigging not extraordinary?

Go ahead revote WA state- only if paper ballets are used, period. There is no way Rossi can win. End of story.

[bemis12]

42. Prove machine rigging and you've got something

But there's never been any of it shown yet, and that's why there's no chance of overturning the election results. None whatsoever.

[Goldeneye]

29. Is there any evidence of fraud?

I know they found all sorts of ballots, but why would they do a revote, if nothing went wrong? Its just a matter of counting the votees.

[catgirl]

33. They know they lost...

with a revote they can come up with another way to cheat. They "lost" ballets the first time. This time the machines will have to be rigged. They are terrified because after King county is counted Gregoire wins. They deserately want to stop the count before it's finished.

[henslee]

32. Horseshit.

[jmknapp]

34. Ha! They know they failed

And want to try again? This is how Bush got out of Yale.

Just count the votes!

[AmerDem]

35. Damn,these repuke hypocrites make me sick.

I want to do more then just scream about these bastards. They want a whole new vote in Washington because the see they will be losing but we hear NO new vote talk about Ohio, a state that has been riddled with open fraud and suppression, not to mention making the difference in what person leads our nation for the next 4 years. These party leaders of ours have to start speaking the hell up. This is beyond belief!

[keepthemhonest]

36. yeah the want a recount

they want time to let more people register(only repukes) and then they need time to figure out how to cheat this time.

[lonestarnot]

37. SORE LOOOOOOOSERS! LOL

[TexasLawyer]

39. What a Crock of Doo Doo

Doo as I say, not as I doo...

More interesting details in the article


Democrats scoffed at the proposal, saying Republicans were raising it only because Rossi's whisker-thin lead appears in jeopardy. "Last week the Republicans were saying we need to resolve this as quickly as possible," Democratic Party spokeswoman Kirstin Brost said. "This week they're saying we need another election."

"Perhaps the only way we're going to settle this is to let the people of Washington vote again," he said. Current Secretary of State Sam Reed, a Republican, said a revote is doable and may be worth considering.

Rossi won the Nov. 2 election by 261 votes, but his lead fell to just 42 after a mandatory machine recount. He had been gaining votes in a second, manual recount that started last week. But his lead in the latest tally was cut in half yesterday after Gregoire made gains in Snohomish County.

With only three of 39 counties left to complete their recounts, Rossi has gained a net 32 votes over Gregoire. Pierce and Spokane counties are scheduled to report their recount totals today.

That will leave only King County, which is embroiled in controversy over 573 absentee ballots that election officials say were mistakenly rejected during the initial count. That many new ballots in Democrat-dominated King County could hand the election to Gregoire.

[McCamy Taylor]

40. damn, GOPers never give up do they, how much would a do-over cost?

[weeve]

41. H-I-P-O-C-R-A-C-Y

Exit Polls in the Ukraine prove that election was bogus.
Exit Polls in the U.S. just can't be trusted.
Re-vote in Washington because 700 valid votes were initially set aside.
No re-vote in Ohio despite mountains of evidence that fraud and disenfranchisement has occurred.

[LisaM]

43. Yeah, re-vote on his company's machines

Dave Ross pretty much called him out this morning.

[glitch]

45. He'd rather have a new vote than risk full discovery that the systems he

installed are rigged.

[UncleSepp]

46. Good! I'd be behind that.

Getting behind this would be a great way to show that electoral process issues are nonpartisan. Furthermore, it would establish a precedent that revoting is a valid solution to a botched election. Having such action initiated by Munro, who is extremely well qualified to speak on election issues and who is supporting a Republican candidate, would go a long way toward deflecting accusations of left-wing tinfoil-hattery leveled at those who would criticize our electoral process. First Washington, then Ohio. I say let's help this guy.

How about organizing a peaceful public assembly with volunteers, voters, counters, voting rights activists, Democrats, Republicans, and if we can get him, Munro speaking about the electoral process? *Encourage* people attending to visibly identify their party. Can you imagine what that would look like on the news?

[RaulVB]

48. Well, I buy into it...

NATIONWIDE REVOTE.

I like the idea.

[Straight Shooter]

49. I think this is the FUNNIEST STINKIN' THING I've seen this morning

Believe it or not, I'm all for it. Let the media applaud the Repubs for demanding a revote, then the Dems can jump and yell and demand what's rightfully ours in Ohio, too.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander. I say let the Repubs set the g'damn precedent. This is either a bomb to be dropped or the goose has finally laid a golden egg for our side.

Of course, it's all BS, we know that, let those ballots in King County be counted first, THEN let them demand a revote. That will give us even more leverage to demand the same in Ohio.

[TexasLawyer]

51. Worst of Both Worlds

But you know the Dems would get the worst of both worlds, since the Secretaries of State of both Ohio and Washington State are highly partisan Republicans--

WORLD 1: a re-vote in Washington when the Dem candidate was on the verge of winning with the original vote (which original vote was instantly halted BECAUSE the Dem candidate was just about to win). Repub. candidate then gets second chance that he otherwise would not have had;

WORLD 2: no re-vote in Ohio, no matter what level of fraud and no matter what precedents have been established for re-votes in other states-- because Katherine Blackwell is a son-of-a-*, is no stranger to hypocrisy, and he likes the results that he already has.

[Straight Shooter]

52. When worlds collide

You may be right, I certainly hope not! But if this isn't the freakiest election ever, and all I'm looking for is ammunition for the Democratic party. Maybe Vance is giving that to us.

As for the second chance, it may well be that Gregoire comes out even more ahead and that will make Rossi and his crew look ten times as foolish.

We just have to wait and see, wait and see and do what we can in the meantime to promote democracy.

:hi:

[WI_DEM]

53. Let's do a new nationwide vote for President!!

[Ellipsis]

54. my oh my oh my

check this

The SOS of Washington linked to Acenture??

with skepticism of course.

http://www.votehere.net/boardofdirectors.html

which came fromm this thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=158146&mesg_id=166784&page=

which states... VOTEHERE (is a) (department of Accenture)

did the group "hissyfit" just get a Little smaller?

k

[Ellipsis]

56. my oh my 2:The formerSOS of Washington is on the BOD of an Accenture

The former SOS of Washington is on the BOD of an Accenture






subsidiary named VoteHere.

BOARD OF DIRECTORS
Ralph Munro, Chairman
Jim Adler
Richard Green
Tom Simpson
Robert G. Wolfe
Tim Kilgallon

Ralph Munro, Chairman, former Secretary of State of Washington State
Ralph Munro served as Secretary of State of Washington State from 1980 to 2000. He has an impressive background in legislative, elections and government policy spanning more than two decades. Mr. Munro was instrumental in developing and implementing progressive plans making voting more convenient for citizens and improving the administrative process for elections officials.

Under Mr. Munro’s leadership, Washington State saw significant advancement in the efficiency of state election services including absentee voting, voter registration, election reporting and voter information. His notable achievements include implementing the presidential primary allowing independent voters to participate in the nomination process; transitioning election equipment from lever machines to more technologically advanced optical scan systems; designing the “Motor Voter” registration system that offers citizens the opportunity to register to vote at the same time they obtain a driver’s license; and supporting a program that allowed Washington-based Desert Storm troops to vote via fax from the Persian Gulf.

Mr. Munro has also given his time and expertise to government, civic and volunteer organizations. He served as past president of the National Association of Secretaries of State, co-chaired the International Task Force of the Council of State Governments and trustee and member of the Federal Election Commission Clearinghouse Advisory Panel and the Commission on Voter Participation.

Mr. Munro’s numerous awards include the World Citizen Award from the Seattle World Affairs Council, the Warren G. Magnuson Award for outstanding public service and the Executive Leadership Award from the Washington State League of Women Voters.

Mr. Munro has a BA in Education and Political Science from Western Washington University.


Jim Adler, Founder and CEO, VoteHere
Jim Adler is founder and CEO of VoteHere, the leading worldwide provider of secure electronic voting. Mr. Adler is widely regarded as an authority on the subjects of cryptography, Internet security and e-voting. Mr. Adler served on California’s groundbreaking 1999 Internet Voting Task Force, has testified before state legislatures on the subject of e-voting, and is defining certification procedures for e-voting systems. He is a frequent speaker at conferences, seminars and panel discussions on the topic of online and electronic voting both in the United States and internationally.

Under Mr. Adler's leadership, VoteHere has received extensive worldwide press coverage from Time, US News & World Report, The Wall Street Journal, CNN, Business Week, ABC, CBS, NBC, Financial Times, Wired, Red Herring, and USA Today.

Mr. Adler received his BS in Electrical Engineering with High Honors from the University of Florida and his MS in Electrical Engineering from the University of California, San Diego.


Richard Green, Co-founder of VoteHere
Richard Green is a co-founder of VoteHere and served as Chairman from 1998 to 2001. He works actively with management in strategic planning, business development, contract review, and technical design.

Mr. Green is a director of Jetboil, Inc., a producer of innovative products for the outdoor recreation market. Mr. Green is co-founder and Managing Director of Granite State Angels, a regional investment group located in Hanover, NH.

Mr. Green has 27 years of experience as an executive in the software and networking industries. In 1983, Mr. Green co-founded Corporate Microsystems, Inc. (CMI), a software firm specializing in data communications, where he served as CEO and Chairman for ten years. In 1993, he negotiated the successful sale of CMI to Legent Corporation, a major software vendor later acquired by Computer Associates.

Mr. Green is President of the Board of Directors of the Grafton County, NH Economic Development Council, is a founder of the Dartmouth Regional Technology Center business incubator, and is a member of the Assembly of Overseers of the Dartmouth Hitchcock Medical Center in Lebanon, NH.

Mr. Green graduated with honors in 1976 from Dartmouth College, where he received the John G. Kemeny Prize in Computing.


Tom Simpson, Managing Partner, Northwest Venture Associates
Tom Simpson is managing partner of Northwest Venture Associates with 15 years of experience as a venture capitalist and investment banker building and serving successful Northwest businesses in several markets. Prior to forming Northwest Venture Associates, he was a managing director in Dain Rauscher Wessels' Seattle-based investment banking group, where he spearheaded the fundraising of more than $350 million for several of the region's most successful emerging companies. Tom is a director of Confirma, Pacific Edge Software, Sur La Table, Pet's Choice, Sightward, Telect, TeleSym and VoteHere and a former director of AdRelevance (now NetRatings), Netpodium (now Akamai) and Packet Engines. He is a board member and past-president of the Evergreen Venture Capital Association, which oversees the 40 plus venture capital firms in Washington State. Tom serves on the boards of the National Association of Small Business Investment Companies and the Technology Alliance of Washington. He holds a bachelor's degree in business administration from the University of Washington and a master's degree in business administration from The Wharton School.


Robert G. Wolfe, Managing Partner, Northwest Venture Associates
Bob Wolfe has 25 years of finance, operations and technology management experience. Prior to joining NWVA, Bob was president and chief operating officer of Toronto-based GT Group Telecom, then Canada's largest independent telecommunications provider. Before GT Group Telecom, Bob was chief financial officer of Trillium Corporation, a private international investment company. While at Trillium Bob served as Chairman of Gargoyles, a manufacturer of specialty sunglasses. Earlier in his career, he spent eight years at Goldman Sachs. He has a bachelor’s degree in business administration from Washington State University and a master’s degree in business administration from Pacific Lutheran University.

Bob is also a director of IP Fabrics, Netmotion Wireless, and Pet's Choice. He is a board observer at Wireless Services.


Tim Kilgallon, CEO of Free and Clear, Inc.
Mr. Kilgallon has twenty years of experience building high growth, technology-based businesses. He is currently the CEO of Free & Clear, inc., which leverages technology and highly-trained remote specialists to provide behavior modification services, including tobacco cessation and weight management. He previously was president of Applied Discovery, a leader in providing web-enabled business services to the legal industry. Applied Discovery was acquired by LexisNexis. Before joining Applied Discovery, Mr. Kilgallon was CEO of Pointshare, a provider of online services to the health care industry. Pointshare was acquired by Siemens. Prior to Pointshare, Mr. Kilgallon served in various roles at Medaphis, including division president, CFO and General Counsel. Medaphis was a leader in providing receivables management, information technology and systems integration services to the healthcare industry. Before joining Medaphis, Mr. Kilgallon practiced law at King & Spalding in Atlanta, Georgia. Mr. Kilgallon holds a J.D. from Washington and Lee University, and a B.A. in Economics and Philosophy from Boston College.

[Alizaryn]

57. Did anyone forward this to the Seattle Times' Reporter

who wrote the article? They might be interested.

[Ellipsis]

64. I spoke with Carolab that's it. n/t

[Imagevision]

55. Govenor or President -- Repugs don't want any VALID recounts!

A-n-y-w-h-e-r-e!...Democracy? -- what-when-where?
This country isn't what it used to be...{maybe it never was?}

[Viktor Runeberg]

58. I once worked for Munro

Back in the early 80s I had a job in Munro's Secretary of State office. He's a good man, and fairly liberal, not a right-wing nut, unless he's suffered a personality transplant since. His notion of having a fresh vote isn't necessarily partisan either - who knows how it will come out with no new vote and the prospect of months of litigation?

[LisaL]

63. LOL.

Why would they want a new vote?
It's a close election.
What is the new vote going to do?

[geniph]

66. We'll agree to revote Washington

when they agree to revote Ohio. However, I think the Washington revote should throw out both candidates, as obviously the voters weren't excited by either one (I know I wasn't) and submit two entirely new candidates. Phil Talmadge is recovered and available!

[Lisabtrucking]

67. Yeah! Lets do a whole new recount for America, without the machines.

[Carolab]

68. Oh, great, SOS Reed is open to it

Meanwhile, Secretary of State Reed said he still hoped the second recount would settle the question. He said there is nothing in state law that provides for a revote, but theorized the Legislature or the courts could order one.

"We certainly could do it," he said.

Reed said he would rather see a new election than see the race drag on in court. But he hasn't given up hope the race could be settled by Christmas.

"I'm still hoping that when we get done with this recount, we'll have a clear winner and can get on with the transition," Reed said. "I think we'd be better off if that happened."

[texpatriot2004]

69. How convenient it would be NOT to look at these votes? Are

they afraid something might be discovered if they continue the recounting? What are the Rethugs hiding? What do they not want people to see?