What is WRONG with us??

[Firespirit]

Folks, get a GRIP! I log off DU for a few hours, then come back and practically EVERY DAMNED THREAD has sniping, namecalling, horrible assertions, etc. What's up with this, did the party disband today?

I know we're all frustrated at various people. We're pissed, we're sick at heart, and we're feeling completely powerless.

But one thing we do NOT need, is the constant stream of bashing. Nobody is perfect. People screw up. They make MISTAKES. They have BAD DAYS. Some people, though, seem determined to believe:

-Keith Olbermann has it in for someone or other
-Bev Harris is scamming people
-Cliff Arnebeck is a publicity hound
-David Cobb is in it for himself
-John Kerry cut a Skull & Bones deal with Bush
-The Greens are scamming people
-So-and-so is in it for himself
-So-and-so on DU is scamming people
-So-and-so is "one of THEM"
....You get the idea....

Why are some of us so determined to see evil and ulterior motives in people who are trying to help us?? What happened to "innocent until proven guilty"??

The point: None of these people are the enemy. They are human beings like everyone else. If WE are so frazzled that we're sniping at each other like this, imagine the pressure that THEY are under and you begin to get an explanation for some of what they have done.

Let us not lose sight of this:

Ken Blackwell is the enemy.
The Ohio GOP is the enemy.
Recount hijackers are the enemy.
Obstructionist Boards of Elections are the enemy.
Partisan judges are the enemy.
George Bush is the enemy!!
Karl F**king Rove is the enemy!!
Diebold and Triad HACKERS are the enemy.
ANYONE who committed election fraud is the enemy!

NOT OUR FRIENDS!

Have YOUR friends always been perfect? Have YOU always been a perfect friend? If so I want to know! All this bullshit can possibly do is discourage those who ARE on the "front lines" trying to see JUSTICE done!

In the meantime, I defer you to the words of another Donkey that some people should heed:

"That's what friends do -- they forgive each other!"



Mods, I apologize for this. Feel free to lock if it gets out of hand.

[MadAsHellNewYorker]

1. thanks for the dose of sanity post! n/t

[Griffy]

43. you forgot.. Bill O'Riely, Hannity, Limbutt and the liars that undermine..

America and turn us against each other!

[New Earth]

2. THANK YOU!

That's what i was trying to say in my 'Enough about Kerry' thread.

People need to calm down and realize we are a team, we are our own leaders.

[Blue in the face]

3. Hey you only have 145 posts!

I'm just kidding. Great post. Sometimes we need a wakeup call...

[kerry2win]

40. ya and been here over 2yrs

it's good to see, been suspect over last few days with what's gone on (actually since nov 3 or 4th seemed to change)

[seito]

4. I Agree 100%

KNOW YOUR ENEMY

No Retreat No Surrender

[Melissa G]

5. well said

[dzika]

6. kick n/t

[insane_cratic_gal]

7. Agree n/t

[BlueDog2u]

8. Yep/Let's stop the bickering, people!/eom

:dem:

[Goldeneye]

9. I'm not sure

but it seems like we've got a few high count freeps causing trouble. Sorry if this message offends anyone, but I've been thinking it for awhile, and I needed to say it.

[insane_cratic_gal]

20. If it smells like a freeper

talks like a freeper. Squats on posts like a freeper.(making sure there is plenty of dissent among us, getting people to verge away from the issues.
High or Low post count it's a freeper!

But then Again we do have our pent up frustrated voters too. It's hard to discern. Unless your paying attention to the posts they reply to. Only the negative ones.

[pleiku52cab]

21. How can you tell the difference

between a freeper bent on causing trouble and a disgruntled cynic who as a matter of their nature questions what they deem as overly optimistic.

[EFerrari]

29. in response to both Nos. 20 & 21

If you're constantly looking for "freepers" as you call them aren't you already off task? I don't minimize what I don't know, i.e., people who've purposefully come here and tried to stir up havoc. I haven't seen that myself, so I just have to trust you know what you're talking about.

But, when fear takes over thinking, we're not in charge any more and don't move forward. Worse, imo, when our thinking get so rigid, so black and white ("you're either with us or against us"), how are we different from MendacityCentral? Isn't that their M.O? I don't know who said this but believe it's from Buddhism: what you resist, you will become.

I pissed someone off royally trying to say this the other night, and now probably will again. But, after being pissed at me, it might be something to think over. fwiw

[insane_cratic_gal]

32. No flame here

Been called one myself.

When I see pissed off posters, I try to (as you know) to listen first, hold judgment and focus the agrument to Ok go ahead and vent but don't forget we still need to do x y z

[EFerrari]

34. Thanks for that. There's no cognitive dissonance like looking

around your lefty house with the campaign lit and the signs and to-do lists and stuff, and looking back at the screen and seeing so much upset (is that the word?).

You know, I think the Donner party was tired, not hungry <g>.

Well, we've been thru hell. Or at least, half way thru hell. Maybe this is the tipping point.

Cheers.

[tommcintyre]

36. Yes, I was sent a list several weeks ago, they do exist here

There are some "deep Tr*lls" (not sure if I can even use the word anymore) here. And this (same as above) has brought in "helpers" fairly recently that ran up their count very quickly (of course, it doesn't mean everyone with quick higher counts is guilty though).

I suggest: If the thread is dropping, don't answer - let it go. If not, identify the ringleader(s), and just keep asking them questions like: "What is your REAL reason for doing this?" Usually, they will avoid answering the question directly (if at all). If you keep responding with variations of this question, THEY WILL EXPLODE! (just kidding - that's only in fairy tales - sadly enough). But, at the very least you will cause others to think, "what is this person REALLY up to. You will know you were successful because they will abandon their own thread; and sometimes they will explode - at you! I had one particularly nasty (and obvious) one call me "F*CKING PARANOID" after such an ongoing exchange.

If you accomplish this, you deserve a notch in your "troll neutralizer". (A word of caution though, read the eight pages of DU rules very carefully first. I had one try to nail me on "a technicality" once.

Check out this post if you want more of and "education" (It's a very long thread - be sure to let the whole thing load first - in case you get "lost" it's #760.)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=108750#114729

[EFerrari]

38. Tom, 2 things

One, I can't figure out how to use the blaster. And I write every day, so might as well write to a bunch of people everyday.

Two, could you either post or send me an example of deep troll posts? It's not that I don't think it probable, but I just haven't seen it. And I can spot a troll in less than 50 words on my list. So, if you could do that, it would be helpful.

Thanks

[tommcintyre]

39. Two answers:

1 - Good Blaster instructions:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=162348&mesg_id=162654&page=

2- Troll "droppings"? The link above: follow the link in that post for a good example (leading you to #11 and 12 in another post). I received the list (AFTER) the exchanges there, and voila! the same ***** was whipping things up in the above-mentioned thread the very next day - along with her minions (others on the list).

[EFerrari]

42. Thanks. On a learning curve and boy, am I sore

[understandinglife]

10. Well stated. And, everyone, WE HAVE NO ELECTION.

What are you doing to bring the fraudulent election of 2004 to a halt on 6 Jan 2005?

Focus; help each other; the enemy is real, it is lethal and it has only a small number of days before it has won.

Focus!

[Straight Shooter]

11. Okay, WHO called Cliff Arnebeck a publicity hound?

I need to kick their butt! He's my main man :D

[GetTheRightVote]

13. yes, you are right, remaining positive on fronts, key to success

[Dancing_Dave]

12. Right On!

[ewulf]

16. 999!

Congrats!

[ewulf]

14. If we divide, they conquer, if we unite, we win.

Lets all remember why we're doing what we're doing, and who the enemy really is. (Hint: its not Bev Haris, John Kerry, or the latest, greatest, insufficiently enthusiastic newbie.)

[EFerrari]

15. (Does this mean I don't have to sign the loyalty oath?) lol.

Thanks, Firespirit. I bet many of us are so beyond frazzled, we can't see frazzled from here.

Out here in the Paris of the Pacific, we've had a mayoral race, a recall, a mayoral runoff and this longest campaign from hell that wasn't nice. I've worked them all. And would again. But it's been nonstop for a year and a half.

We're in extra innings here. The seat cushions will fly from the upper decks, they just do that sometimes. Let's stay loose as possible -- easier to duck, cover our friends, and recover that way.

[Junkdrawer]

17. Why, it's almost like pros are at work, huh?

Look just because effective action might expose the fraudulent power base of people bent maintaining control of the most powerful military on earth, doesn't mean that they would hire pros to throw a few monkey wrenches in our gears, right?

That could NEVER happen. Why, posters here are either obvious freepers, or 100% on the up-and-up. Except for advocates of democracy, which are obviously scamming liars.

[EFerrari]

23. I don't understand this, sorry. Maybe Friday stupidity but I

thought we were supposed to be able to handle "nuance".

I've only been here for about three weeks or so. I've been accused of being The Enemy, have seen others attacked casually and en masse.

But the worst incursions that I have seen are posters who pick up trash from the AP or other rightwing outlets and read them literally.

Maybe you guys are just more rough n tumble than I'm used to or something. I came here because I noticed that most of the solid information I got in another group originated here. And have really appreciated the care put into vetting information, being an accuracy freak.

There's always disruptors in big lists. The best thing to do is ignore them. extinguish the attention, imo. But, as Skinner pointed out recently on that thread where people sort things out with him, "disrupting" and "disagreeing" aren't always as easy to distinguish when you are so close to an issue. (Thanks to the mods.)

I'd like to see a lot less name calling, innuendo and casual bashing and 'way more coordination of information and effort. There's so much talent and care and skill here. Shame to waste it.

[txindy]

25. Monkey wrenches

Monkey wrenches. Flying monkeys. Same difference. ;) We're tripping over the wrenches and batting the winged monkeys out of our hair a lot these days, aren't we?

Good.

We are getting so very close in Ohio. And they know it. :evilgrin:

[EFerrari]

30. That's right. Let's all please live to see the day. LOL

[tommcintyre]

45. "Pros?" Whatever they are paid, it's too much: very unprofessional . ;+}

Somebody read somewhere that they hire college students hoping to get "in" with the RNC; or seniors looking for a mean-spirited "hobby". Who knows? What I do know is Whatever they are paid, it's too much. They are so ham-handed that they actually incite more resolve in most here (the exception is the incessant "Bev" posts - the mods should put a stop to them "yesterday". THEY MAKE US LOOK TERRIBLE TO NEWBIES!)

[tommcintyre]

18. YOU'RE RIGHT! THIS CRAP HAS GOT TO STOP!!!!

We have our hands full, trying to do something positive around here. There is a certain destructive element here, that very well may have ulterior motives.

I just sent my first alert ever because of this (see below).

---------------------------------------------------------

Please mods,

Can't you please stop this type of systematic attack. I don't care about B*v one way or another; but I am sure that this type of ongoing smear campaign is turning off (and turning away) many good people. We really can't afford this, it makes us look just terrible to everyone.

Suggestion: Why not start a "He said.. she said" forum for this kind of crap?

If M**dy's new thread is not locked very quickly, I will start "answering" her (no holds barred - but within board rules of course)- I feel there will be no other choice, I will start a new counter-thread in regards to this pattern that has developed recently, I will post this in the "Mod thread", and I will copy Skinner with this message.

Generally, you mods do an excellent job, and I wish to thank you for it. But this type of damaging stuff really needs to be stopped.

Thanks

----------------------------------------------------------

<If you feel the same way, I suggest everyone POLITELY do the same thing. Ask the mods to please stop/discourage those threads that are OBVIOUSLY counterproductive.>

And, any perpetrators of this, don't bother to flame me about censorship. What I'm talking about is no different then when the mods remove obvious "disruptor" messages. Some of these threads are clearly counterproductive (disruptive), and we need to let the mods know when we legitimately feel this way.

P.S. Also let them know what a generally excellent (thankless) job they do, and it is really appreciated.

[IAMREALITY]

19. Not Gonna Argue,

But just as quick insight, the last part of your message about the mods deleting threads, I would think they would just remind you that we ALL have an ignore option. We can ignore posters, we can ignore entire threads, and we can do it quite easily.

I think many of us forget that option all too often, but it can definitely be helpful. (trust me, no sarcasm here, just my thought on the matter)

:hi:

[tommcintyre]

22. Sorry IAMREALITY, but sometimes it's not enough

Just like we could ignore an obvious disruptor poster (instead of tombstoning them); there are certain threads that are OBVIOUSLY distructive/counterproductive. Jesus! This constant barrage of gutter-level "Bev" posts! What a great first impression on newbies, huh?
I do think we should have a special forum just for mudslinging, and isolate the clear candidates there.

[EFerrari]

24. Right! A pie toss! lol n/t

[Verve]

26. Very nice rant by you, Firespirit! Thanks for the insight! n/t

[Stew225]

27. I think it's all Firespirit's fault. eom

[EFerrari]

33. Wait, I 'm new here. Are you saying she's a monkey?

And, is that bad?

lol

[we can do it]

28. Agree - we Are friends

friends know how weird you are and call you anyway....:toast:

[CantGetFooledAgain]

31. Great post. Thank you. n/t

[rzemanfl]

35. Cheer up with this.

New Port Richey, Florida was the site of a Bush invitation only speech in a public park (Why?)during the 2004 run up to the rip off. Anyway, the Repugs now want to place a plaque there to commemorate the idiot's visit. SOUNDS LIKE A URINAL TO ME!!!!

So come to the Suncoast, enjoy the beaches and take a side trip to New Port Richey's George W. Bush commorative open air public urinal.

They will have to have 24 hour a day security on that sucker.

[EFerrari]

37. Perfect. Can we buy this to put in Doug's act? lmao n/t

[ginnyinWI]

41. Yes and don't forget the corporate-owned media!

They are our enemies, too. Big time.

Bill O'Reilly
Sean Hannity
Rush Limbaugh
Fox News
Sinclair
Clear Channel
and all their copy-cats and wanna-bes

[pauldp]

44. Good on ya mate n/t

[Firespirit]

46. I hate to do this

to my own thread, but it looks like it's time for this again.

Can't we do something productive, please?

[Bill Bored]

47. You left out Badnarik!

It's obvious that he's behind the scene pulling everyone's strings!

Mark my words: when all these recounts are done, the 44th president will be Libertarian! ;)