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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 12:01 PM
Original message
Good on ya, Michael Moore
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
1. YES! YES! YES! YES!
Edited on Sat Dec-18-04 12:07 PM by IndyOp
Mike has William Rivers Pitt's "Proof of Ohio Election Fraud Exposed" posted on his site!!!

:bounce:

Edit: A little less excitement -- he should still have it on the home page -- instead it has shifted down in the ranks of "This just in" articles and now you have to search for the link on the second page... C'mon Mike! Please help us more, now!

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senseandsensibility Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Let's e-mail Mike to
put it back on the home page!
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pbartch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. I've been mailing him stuff for weeks. I just sent him this:
Ohio vote count battles escalate amidst new evidence of potential criminal activity
by Bob Fitrakis, Steve Rosenfeld and Harvey Wasserman
December 18, 2004

The epic legal battle over Ohio's presidential vote count is back in the state Supreme Court, with an election challenge claiming George W. Bush was wrongly declared the winner on Nov. 2 and seeking a court-ordered reversal of that victory.

Meanwhile, efforts to recount Ohio's vote may have been fatally tainted by the Republican Party, raising questions of what the GOP has to hide, and prompting demands for criminal prosecution.

New affidavits point to possible criminal activity by top Ohio election officials, raising yet more questions about the 2004 vote. Rhonda J. Frazier, a former employee of the Ohio Secretary of State's office, has confirmed in an affidavit taken by Cynthia Butler, working with freepress.org, that the Office had secret slush funds. Frazier says it also failed to comply with the requirements of "The Voting Reform Grant" that required all the voting machines in Ohio to be inventoried and tagged for security reasons.

"I was routinely told to violate the bidded contracts to order supplies from other companies for all 17 Secretary of State offices throughout the State which were cheaper vendors, leaving a cash surplus differential in the budget," Frazier states, "After complaining about the office's repeated practices of violating grants and contracts I was fired."

Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell has come under intense fire for his role in officiating the disputed Ohio balloting and vote count. Blackwell served as co-chair of the Bush-Cheney campaign while running an election he says went "smoothly."

Blackwell's role has been central to a week that started with a bang and rapidly escalated to a dramatic last-minute filing at the state Supreme Court Friday afternoon, December 17.

On Monday, December 13, with Rev. Jesse Jackson at hand, citizen activists filed the now-famous landmark Moss V. Bush action demanding the Ohio Supreme Court vacate the apparent victory for George W. Bush and award the state's 20 electoral votes -- and thus the presidency -- to John Kerry. The filing lists a litany of problems with the November 2 balloting and vote count. The official tally showed a victory for George W. Bush of some 119,000 votes. But the filing claims the real outcome was a 134,000 vote victory for John Kerry, and it demands the Court install a slate of Democratic electors.

The filing was followed by a unique Congressional hearing staged at Columbus City Hall. Conducted by U.S. Rep. John Conyers (D-MI), the nearly four-hour gathering hosted a wide range of testimony charging manipulation, intimidation and fraud surrounding the Ohio election. Most pointed to Secretary of State Blackwell's "clear conflict of interest" as election administrator and Bush-Cheney co-chair. Among other things, in the lead-up to Nov. 2 Blackwell circulated a taped message asking Ohio voters to approve a Constitutional amendment banning gay marriage and abolishing spousal benefits for unmarried partners. That partisan position came amid multiple orders from Blackwell to local election officials on how to conduct the actual vote count.

At noon on Monday, 20 Republican electors convened at the Ohio statehouse and certified their votes for Bush, which were then mailed to Washington. On January 6, they will be evaluated by Congress. It is now possible that for the first time since 1877, there will be a formal challenge to those electoral votes by Democratic members of Congress.

High among the charges against Blackwell was the fact that he delayed certifying the Ohio vote count to make it impossible for a meaningful recount to occur before the electors met. If this was a fair vote, wondered Rev. Jackson, "what are they hiding?"

Jackson plans to be fully visible on January 3 at a large rally in Columbus, Ohio sponsored by Rainbow/PUSH.

But far more serious charges than a mere delay surfaced at Conyers' hearing. A letter from the Shelby County Board of Elections, obtained through the Freedom of Information Act, admitted that data critical to a meaningful recount had been discarded, possibly illegally. Sworn testimony from election observers in Greene County indicated that ballots had been left loose on tables in an unlocked, unguarded building, open to manipulation and theft, prior to a recount. And in Lucas County and Hocking County, it was revealed that technicians from the Diebold and Triad companies had inexplicably taken control of voting machines and dismantled them, rendering verifiable recounts impossible.

On Wednesday, December 15, U.S. Representative John Conyers posted an affidavit from Douglas W. Jones, a professor of computer science and a voting technology consultant. In Professor Jones' opinion, the bizarre behavior by the Triad Company, which provides computer software and voting machines in 41 of Ohio's 88 counties, may have tainted the entire recount effort. A Triad employee took apart a computer used in the recounting process and inserted new parts as well as alleged modifications of the software. "As a result, the incident in Hocking County could compromise the statewide recount and undermine the public's trust in the credibility and accuracy of the recount," Jones stated in an affidavit.

As evidence of fraud, manipulation and sabotage of a recount poured in, citizen activists filed for a Temporary Restraining Order demanding the Ohio Supreme Court step in to protect ballots and voting records from further destruction.

On Thursday, Ohio Chief Justice Thomas Moyers denied the original Moss v. Bush filing, saying it had wrongly joined actions on two separate elections, the one for president and one for Chief Justice of the Ohio Supreme Court. The Supreme Court race of Moyer and Ellen Connally had been part of the filing because citizen litigators found fraud in its conduct as well.

The litigation team worked all night in order to refile the two challenges on Friday, December 17. These challenges on both the Bush-Kerry race and on the Supreme Court case were filed separately, reinstating the original thrust of Monday's action and asserting that Kerry had won the Ohio vote, as had Connally.

With court battles escalating, attempts to conduct a meaningful recount have proceeded. Democratic, Green and Libertarian party officials have helped in training volunteers to examine voter records and what to look for as the Ohio vote tally continues. Hundreds of volunteers are observing at election boards around the state trying to get a grasp on what actually happened November 2. Amy Kaplan, head of the Green Party's Franklin County recount, reported to the Free Press that two of the electronic voting machines in Franklin County had faulty cartridges that generated error messages despite being in use on Election Day.

The observers' work has been frustrated and the recount tainted by destroyed records, compromised evidence, and by private vendors who have "re-programmed" machines in both Lucas and Hocking Counties.

Despite his early concession, Kerry has now issued a letter to election boards in all 88 Ohio counties asking a series of questions about the vote count. Thus, charges that Republicans are hiding an outright theft have gained increasing media attention, as have charges that deliberate and illegal destruction of records has been rampant.

Where this will all lead remains unclear. An escalation of court battles is the only certainty. The presidential election of 2004 is by no means over.
--
Bob Fitrakis, Steve Rosenfeld and Harvey Wasserman are co-authors of the upcoming OHIO'S STOLEN ELECTION: VOICES OF THE DISENFRANCHISED, 2004, to be published by http://freepress.org, which is accepting donations for the project.


http://freepress.org/departments/display/19/2004/996
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Excellent idea! If we could get him to post the FreePress articles he
would be doing a fantastic service to the nation!

I sent MM a piece a I wrote last Monday (12/13) --
"Remember Fahrenheit 9/11 - We Must Not Allow Them to Stand Alone"

<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1429568>

:bounce:

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signmike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. I can't find it at all - looking now...
:-(
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. The link for Will's article on the MM site
is at the top of this thread -- and here:

<http://michaelmoore.com/words/index.php?id=600>

:kick:
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signmike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. It might just be me but
the link only takes me to MM's main page, and I had a tough time, even with Internet Explorer, getting to the column that has the article. I did get it, it's from the 15th, and I saw most of it a couple days ago. Thanks
btw, I'm on a Mac with Netscape = nothing but trouble. Almost as bad as AOHell
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proudtobeadem Donating Member (665 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
2. It's about time MM!!!
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Greybnk48 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
3. mm is in the House!!!!!!!!!!!
I had no doubts he would check in.
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IAMREALITY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
6. Bout Fuckin Time. Go Mike! nt
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noclonyofthechimp Donating Member (656 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #6
34. Exactly! I thought his new haircut took away some of his brain for a
while there! I was confused by his silence, but I didn't buy it. Doesn't he have coverage from Nov 3rd in FL and Ohio?
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pbartch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
7. here is link to send Michael Moore stuff
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Thanks pbartch -- I was just about to go looking for that link!
:kick:
:kick:
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bunny planet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #7
27. I think I'll send him that post from Dailykos from the black woman who is
a progressive dem (threatening to be a former dem) complaining about the dems not standing up against African American voters dienfranchisement in Ohio. Can't remember the name of it. Got to go search for it now.
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Pithy Cherub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
10. Wanna be like Mike!
We want more teammates... :bounce:
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Scout1071 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
12. I hope that Michael has ammo with all of those cameras. Anybody
remember on 11/2 whether he was in Ohio in the morning and Florida in the afternoon or the other way around?

The more time that goes by, the less I believe that MM is involved at all.

Having said that.....I'm very happy to see him linking this article.
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KaliTracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #12
24. Michael was in Florida in the AM and Cleveland in the PM
At least according to his letter he sent on Election night:

"Friends,

We’ve only got two hours left on the East Coast! I am in Cleveland and the turnout is huge. It was the same this morning as we went to polling sites in Florida. People waited for three hours to vote, but no one was deterred. One man told me "I’d wait in this line three days if I had to." It’s raining here in Ohio, we’ve got a big bus and we’re pulling people out of their homes (gently!) handing out free umbrellas, ponchos, and bottles of water (the last item being slightly unnecessary, considering how soaked all of us already are!). I’ve been getting early tracking results from across the country and things are looking good -- very good. But anything can happen in the last few hours. People are just getting out of work. The lines are going to be enormous. Tell everyone you know -- as long as you are IN LINE before the closing time, they HAVE TO let you vote.

Early word has it that it is very tight in Nevada, New Mexico, Colorado, and Iowa! Michigan -- don’t let me down! If you haven’t voted, stop reading this and get down to the polls. Keep calling and e-mailing your address book.

This is it. The homestretch. Let’s do it!

Yours,

Michael Moore"
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dzika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. There is was an effort to "Video the Vote" in Ohio.
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passy Donating Member (780 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
14. About f***ing time too!
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Vote4Kerry Donating Member (372 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
15. Glad to see Mike posted this on his site! n/t
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Independent_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
16. Way to go, Michael!
I just knew Michael had a plan up his sleeve.

I absolutely admire all the enthusiasm you people have. I never saw so much determination in something before in my life.

I think everybody needs to be patient. One thing I was told growing up was to stay persistent and persistence usually pays off in the end.

We must keep spreading the word around. Like somebody said in a recent post, we are the grassroots people and we have the power.

We need to keep doing the following:

-Contact our senators and congressmen. Let them know we are bound determined to get to the bottom of this and we need some help.

-Contact some celebrities and musicians. Let them know what's going on.

-Organize more rallies and protests.

-Contact groups like MoveOn.org and True Majority. Tell them we are getting the truth out by acting now.

-Keep the pressure on the mainstream media and we'll get the story out sooner than later.

I think we need to let John Kerry and John Edwards know we still support them and we'll never give up on them. I know they are working on something big. I think that's what all the silence is about. Just be patient. Don't bash them because they're not out giving press conferences about it all.

I think Michael Moore chose the same strategy that they're using. Being silent. Now I know it.

Keep the spirit of "No Retreat No Surrender" alive.

Peace, guys!
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Helga Scow Stern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Welcome Independent_Liberal!
We are doing those things as best we can. You are right, we need to keep doing it, never give up, and exercise a certain amount of patience--but not too much.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
18. Congrats to Will Pitt as well.
:toast:
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gorbal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
19. I assume everyone read this
I assume everyone read the letter the woman who works with battered women wrote-

http://www.michaelmoore.com/

I am sure someone posted it here I just missed out on the conversation, perhaps someone could sum it up for me:)
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genieroze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
20. I bet this woke Mike up.
No more :tinfoilhat:'s now
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AmerDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
22. Day late and a dollar short Mike.
Instead why not write a front page explaining why you and top Democrats distanced yourselves from the voting fraud scandal immediately after the election? You, Kerry and many other Democrat leaders promised you wouldn't let them get away with fraud. You all said you will bring to light every bit of fraud the repukes for try this time. Unfortunately none you said a peep until people like Jackson, Arnebeck and Cobb got the ball rolling.
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #22
29. Perhaps, 'patience is a virtue' applies here. Let's evaluate...
...just a few facts since AM 3 Nov 2004:

Bush has had no 'cover'

Bush has puked on the Constitution, big time, with the Gonazales as AG gig

Bush has a SoD who can't travel to Germany and other places for fear of being arrested as a war criminal

Bush has many of Republicans, not just Dems, going bonkers over the 'privatize social security' scam

Bush has every environmentalist on the planet going ape-shit over all the damage he is preparing to cause in the next 4 years

Bush has .......... this is a long list, ok.........; so, he's looking ever more slimmy, incompetent, criminal, and arrogant than he would if he had been able to hide all his shit behind a "Kerry sore loser" media blitz.

And then we have the matter of civil rights and voters rights abuses being documented; we have a judge ruling on a case to which he is a named defendant; we have folk doing all kinds of post-election illegal stuff (tampering with voting machines; we have, "exact matches of original tallies and ballots"; .............. this is a long list, ok........

We know people like MM were doing more than shaking hands and passing out umbrellas on 2 Nov 2004.

We know that Congressman Conyers and others have been deeply engaged in the issues of systemic disenfranchisement since 2000.

We have Senator Kerry's very precise words and those of Senator Edwards, as well.

As Congressman Conyers quickly retorted to Mr Olbermann concerning the Constitutional process of challenging an election "we know the law" -- you betcha.

I humbly urge you and others to recognize that folk like Senator Kerry, Edwards, Congressman Conyers, Waters, ....., were likely not lazyassing around since 2000. They likely did not just stroll into this election with an "we'll give a good shot and if they screw us again we'll just wait until next time" attitude.

When I say 'humbly' I mean it. I'm a scientist, not a wonk, a pundit, a politician, ....., just a citizen who has watched closely since 9 Dec 2000. And, with the little info I have access, I'd have gone into the national election of 2004 with a vastly detailed strategy for how I was going to document the systemic, systematic disenfranchisement (of every sort) likely to occur, and I'd have had a detailed plan of what I would do leading up to 6 Jan 2005. And, I wouldn't have shared it with many folk and sure as heck would have been doing close to zero talking until I was ready to bring the full force of the law and the Constitution down on the traitors.

Peace.

"I'm an American patriot, not a pro-fraud traitorous theocrat"
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AmerDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. no, you need to recognize
That most of us are tired of the same bullshit leadership we get from these people. Gore let us down. Kerry promised and promised but then ended up conceding almost immediately. Are you aware of the inside argument between Kerry and Edwards? As has been told here and else where hours before Kerry conceding Edwards came out with fire in his eyes telling us he was going to make sure every vote was counted, no one was going to get away with fraud, then Kerry all at once concedes and we don't here from the guy until he is called out by Jackson, Cobb and others, WTF.

You need to understand that it's going to take more speaking up to these so called leaders for us to retake our party. Do you want more of what we've been getting since 2000? Ask yourself, with all of the info that was available on the proprietary source code in e-voting and other proof of rigged elections why in over 4 to 5 years haven't 1 of the so called leaders stepped up to a mic to let Americans aware. This isn't leadership, these are action from a group of people in a power position that chose not to rock the boat. Enough, it's time for people like yourself to wake up and speak out against this bullshit!
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. The Dems are doing it too!
That is the most reasonable explanation I can think of to explain why they sat on their asses and pretended to be sorry about losing the election without EVER complaining about election fraud. Then finally after receiving who knows how many emails and calls from Dems like us at DU, the leadership of the party finally decided to get involved in the fraud issue by sending Jesse Jackson to Ohio. Then Conyers opened his hearings.

So the African American wing of the party has spoken up. And the rest of the Dem leadership? Interesting that they remain mostly silent.

I honestly believe that the DLC has remained quiet for fear that any election fraud investigation will expose wrongdoings by Dems also. I really hope that Jesse Jackson acted on his own and stepped up to the plate with the election fraud issue but I have a sinking suspicion that the leadership of the DLC asked him to speak up to take the heat off the party. Same with Conyers.

Please convince me I am wrong. The lack of complaints by the DLC just makes me ill. I don't buy this 'it's smart to remain quiet' bullshit. You can't convince me they didn't know ahead of time the election was going to be stolen. I think that's why they have remained quiet. And how did they know it would be stolen? ? ? Go back and read the title of my post here.

And then convince me I am wrong. Please.
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #31
37. What you state about what has been known, especially since...
...9 Dec 2000, is correct.

I recognize all of it.

I may be incorrect but I think plenty of folk also recognized it, well before 2 Nov 2004.

I am suspending any form of judgement until 6 Jan 2005. I know what I've been doing since 2 Nov 2004 (and before). I know what I will be doing on 6 Jan 2005, and it is entirely contingent on what Senator Kerry has done before that day and on that day.

Peace.
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TexasChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
23. Wow! I believe people are starting to talk more. Still leary, but now
just a little bit more optimistic that fraud will be exposed.
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KaliTracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
25. thanks for posting this!
And thank Michael. I've sent him several things, too. As an investigative documentarist, I choose to believe that he was biding his time -- or that more had to come out like this to give context and credence to anything he might have footage of. (If he has footage.) At least, that's my take on it.
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SueZhope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
26. thanks for the post
William Rivers Pitt
:yourock:

Michael Moore
Its about time
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GetTheRightVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. Thank you MM & William P.
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Smirking_Chimp Donating Member (213 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
32. Good- I think he had to make sure it was real before
getting accused of spreading rumors around.
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KenCarson Donating Member (170 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 07:15 PM
Response to Original message
35. finally....thank you Mr. Moore
now stop dressing like a twit
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skids Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
36. Not a thank you note, but I've been meaning to send this...
...just a loose-end tier-upper I sent to MM just now:



Your fantastic "Election Watch" webpage, which is no longer available, had a lot of important data for ongoing investigations. In addition, any data you may have received that didn't make the "cut" for Election Watch may still be useful to those investigating election 2004.

I am referring to what used to be posted at the URL http://www.michaelmoore.com/electionwatch

Please take the time to collect the data and send it to one of the following organizations, so that they may make good use of it:

eirhelp@verifiedvoting.org
contact@votersunite.org

Please respond so I can stop worrying that the data is lost to us.



I'll post any response I get here.
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Dancing_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
38. By choosing this article, at least he shows he GETS IT.
He wasn't actually the quickest guy to figure out what happened in Ohio. I believe his first response to the Ohio "results" was to say "The Buckeye State is a nut."

Obviously, his camera's didn't give him enough to get a clue. By picking this article to feature, he at least shows that now he understands some of the most important evidence of fraud. And of course, the long lines of minorities and college students targeted for vote suppression does tell some of the story visually. But it doesn't tell enough to conceivably overturn the election or anything like that. At best, it might help us bust Blackwell for violation of the Voting Rights Act from the Civil Rights Era.
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