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emcguffie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 12:44 PM
Original message
Kerry may be being smart
I know this looks like it shouldn't be here, but in this intv., from Democracy Now!, Robert Parry alludes to Kerry's investigative skills. And the whole thing is a funny-but-sad parallel of the situation with this investigation and the mainstream media. Sorry if this is a double.

From Amy Goodman interview with Robert Parry about the recent suicide of investigative journalist Gary Webb, who reported the CIA-contra-cocaine connection, and then watched his career go down the tubes.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/12/13/1457240&mode=thread&tid=25

AMY GOODMAN: we're joined on the telephone now by Bob Parry, veteran investigative journalist, wrote for AP and Newsweek. His reporting led to the exposure of what's now called the Iran-Contra scandal. His latest book is called Secrecy and Privilege: The Rise of the Bush Dynasty to Watergate and Iraq. Welcome to Democracy Now!

ROBERT PARRY: Hi, Amy.

AMY GOODMAN: I heard it from you this weekend that Gary Webb had died of an apparent suicide. Can you talk about Gary?

ROBERT PARRY: Well, I received a call Saturday from the Los Angeles Times asking if I could comment about Webb’s death. I went on and explained that the Country owes a huge debt to Gary Webb. What he did was revive a story that some of us at AP and then later Senator John Kerry looked into in the mid-1980s of how the Reagan-Bush Administration had financed the contra war in part by allowing the Contras engage in cocaine trafficking. The evidence even in the mid 1980s was quite strong. Kerry did a fairly good investigation that was published in a report in 1989, but throughout this, the Washington Press Corps, the Washington Times, L.A. Times denigrated the story. The Reagan-Bush stories denied them by and large and that's where the story was left. Kerry was ridiculed for being a conspiracy theorist for following the leads. It was Gary Webb who revived that investigation in 1996 with his series in the San Jose Mercury News, and again, he was assaulted by these same news elements, the New York Times, the Washington Post, L.A. Times, and what he did was he provoked an internal investigation at justice, at the CIA, and those investigations while they -- the press releases tended to be protective of the agencies, the information contained in the long reports was devastating. Essentially, the CIA admitted that it was involved with the Contras, who were actively participating in cocaine trafficking. The CIA Inspector General said more than 50 Contras and Contra units were implicated in the cocaine trade, that the CIA knew about it in real time, that it hid the evidence, that it obstructed justice. All of these things were admitted by the CIA itself, by 1998, in response to Webb’s series. The great tragedy, I suppose, of the personal tragedy and professional, is that despite these admissions, the New York Times, the Washington Post, and the L.A. Times still refused to deal with the facts. It seemed almost like the editors had more of a stake in covering up the truth than the CIA did. So, Gary Webb’s career was allowed to be ruined. The people who were involved in these -- in protecting the CIA from those major papers, their careers blossomed. Jerry Seapost, the executive editor of the San Jose Mercury News, who sold out Webb and his series received an award from the Society of Professional Journalists for ethics because of what he did. So, it seemed like all of the people that did the wrong thing got the benefits, and Gary Webb and people who -- including John Kerry, who did honorable work on this topic, received no benefits at all, and in fact were damaged.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
1. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. did you take a shower this week?
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HEAVYHEART Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. buwahahahah!
Good one! :D
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musette_sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. I thought I smelled something too
:evilfrown:
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emcguffie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #3
26. You're sweet too.
You must be SOOOO SPECIAL!
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #26
112. we werent' referring to you
but the person who's message has been deleted :)
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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
2. Kerry IS being smart. He's got excellent investigative skills and
he's a trained prosecutor. He has experience investigating and fighting this outfit.

Gary Webb was "suicided."
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seito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. lol!!!
Suicided is right. We need to use that word in reference to all of these mysterious deaths.
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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Yeah, so far, my count is 11+ suicided and over 50 "accidents"
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johan helge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Do you know of any website which does this kind of counting?
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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. On this thread you will find several links on this subject
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RevCheesehead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 01:16 AM
Response to Reply #17
92. Another website devoted to "Bush Body Count"
although seemingly related to Poppy, not junior... But the rotten acorn don't fall far from the tree.

http://www.bushbodycount.com/voices/thelist.php?catid=24&blogid=4
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #7
18. "accidented"
:shrug:

50 "accidented"
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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. Actually it's more than 50 less than 75 "accidented"
over two or three decades and two generations of B* Grandaddy knew some folks who had "accidents" too.

Plane crashes are very, very common "accidents"
Car wrecks are next in frequency
One boating "accident"
Two "heart attacks"
One explosion

These numbers don't include the conspiracy theories about assassinations like JFKennedy or MLKing etc.
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #22
30. Alan Gathman, inventor of a voter verified paper trail voting system
died in a plane crash. I hope the woman prof. who invented a similar contraption walks during the day in public walkways.

:grr:

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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. Don't forget the African American


that also invented a paper trail voting machine.

He died in a "auto accident."

I read about it on DU.
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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #33
43. Oh my gosh, is this a third death related to E-Vote machines
that can be audited and verified? Do you have a link?
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #43
49. I'll try to do a search for it


I know I read about it within the last month.
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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #30
41. Athan Gibbs Sr. also invented an auditable, verifiable E-Vote
machine and died in an automobile "accident." So, you are saying there was another inventor of this kind of machine who also died. I am not familiar with Alan Gathman. Can you direct me to any links?
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #41
50. Here is the sad story about the "accident"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=161194

Some people here may be aware of this. I just learned it yesterday. There was someone who knew we needed a "voter verified paper audit trail" and worked to get us one. His name was Athan Gibbs, Sr. He died in a "car accident" in early 2004. His machine the TruVote is described by Fitrakis in the article below as "...Gibbs’ TruVote machine is a marvel. After voters touch the screen, a paper ballot prints out under plexiglass and once the voter compares it to his actual vote and approves it, the ballot drops into a lockbox and is issued a numbered receipt. The voter’s receipt allows the tracking of his particular vote to make sure that it was transferred from the polling place to the election tabulation center." Read the article in it's entirety, it's interesting and it's Fitrakis.

Death of a patriot
By Bob Fitrakis
http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting/031904Fitrakis/031...

<snip>
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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #50
55. OK, 2 inventors of auditable E-Vote machines die "accidentally"
Athan Gibbs Sr. is the one you are talking about. I know of him. So, there have been two people die (not three) who invented E-Voting machines where votes could be verified and the machines could be audited. Still, two sounds pretty strange, what are the odds that two people inventing similar machines at a time in history when the machines were so needed and yet unwanted by some powerful wealthy people would die "accidentally." I wonder how close the dates of death were? Thanks for the follow-up that you did here.
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seito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #18
56. ROFLMAO!!!!!
Suicided and Accidented

I would love to hear that in the media. I bet AAR would use the terms.
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rdmccur Donating Member (622 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #2
81. Yep, as soon as I saw that
come thru the news I figured 'no, it wasn't suicide'.
Just like the British figure (he had gone out walking I seem to recall) who supposedly committed suicide
(he was critical of Tony Blair and the war in Iraq). Anyone recall who that was. (very recently)
Sure would like to hear from Madsen again soon!
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thanatonautos Donating Member (282 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 02:45 AM
Response to Reply #81
99. You mean Dr. David Kelly ... British weapons analyst.
He was the source for a news story which detailed how
British intelligence services had exaggerated the
evidence on Iraq WMD for the Blair government. Some
time after the story broke, and Kelly's name had come out
as the likely source, he was found dead. He had testified
before parliament, and his testimony actually completely
backed the government.

There was an inquiry into the circumstances of his death, as
well as the questions about the intelligence on WMD.
The conclusion of the inquiry was that his death had
been a suicide.

Hutton report.
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emcguffie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-04 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #81
130. slit his wrists, just like....
The other two who slit their wrists. Investigative journalist Danny Casolaro and the fellow that worked for Yang Enterprises Inc. in Florida. He was found dead in a bathtub in a motel room with slit wrists and an unsigned suicide note. Just like Danny Casolaro in 1991.

What's interesting is that most people do not know HOW to slit their wrists successfully. The way most people think it is done will not kill you. That's why so many people end up with scarred wrists from failed attempts.

Hey, if you were going to slit your wrists, would you go do it in the woods?
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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
8. kick it for Gary Webb
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malatesta1137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
9. of course
he THINKS he's being smart, he's thinking of 2008.

He's hoping enough fools will forget about his pitiful and dismal behavior on Nov 3, when he caved after 12 hours.

I hope real Democratic leaders like Dean, Clark, even Edwards will stop the fraud.


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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Could you please stop you mean-spirited post against Kerry?
I haven't heard a peep out of those three since the election? Why aren't they in the news? Stop hating on Kerry.
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Corvid Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Suicides
Are you included Cliff Baxter, one of the few honest executives at enron, in the "suicided" column?
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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. Yes, he's included
Edited on Mon Dec-20-04 03:23 PM by texpatriot2004
J. Clifford Baxter
Found dead in his car, shot in the head. Mr. Baxter was vice chairman of Enron Corp. when he resigned in May 2001. Enron has been hot copy lately with the revelation that they were the largest campaign contributors for George W. Bush. Was J. Clifford Baxter a potential witness to Bush foreknowledge of their wrongdoings? His death was ruled a suicide.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x161194


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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. The one on the list that I think most people miss is
#6 John Heinz (April 5, 1991) - Co-chaired Iran-Contra investigation with Tower. Enormously popular centrist Republican: "'He was the peacemaker of the Republican Party,' one state Democrat said. 'Heinz was able to keep the conservatives at bay and the party in the mainstream.' Now, the Democrat said, he expects the Pennsylvania Republicans to swing to the right." Newsday article


===========================
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emcguffie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Did he "commit suicide"?
Tower, that is.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. Tower? I'm not familiar with Tower.
Edited on Mon Dec-20-04 05:07 PM by merh
Heinz is on the list of "accidents"????
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corky44 Donating Member (177 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #27
44. Tower killed in plane crash.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. John Tower
5 John Tower (April 5, 1991) - Protected Reagan-Bush against Iran-Contra then worked for Bush's election Guardian article

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2826661

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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #24
46. Senator John Tower died in a plane "accident" in GA in 1991
Senator John Tower
He was appointed by the Reagan/Bush Administration to chair the bipartisan committee to investigate the Iran/Contra scandals. He directed the Tower Report and had all the Iran Contra documents that told the real story. He was killed in an airplane crash later in Georgia in 1991. Also killed was his daughter, Marian.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. John Heinz - is that Teresa Heinz Kerry's 1st husband?
:shrug:
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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #48
53. Yes Merh that's correct. n/t
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NotNInch Donating Member (60 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #48
54. Unbelievable . . .
So, Theresa's first husband, centrist repub, may have been suicided, . . . and he was Co-chair of the Iran-Contra investigation -- with Tower who may also have been suicided, and was also co-chair of the Iran-Contra investigation. Both on the same day (I think it was), . . . but different incidents . . .

And John Kerry, democrat, coincidently also investigated Iran-Contra back then.

And now on Nov. 3rd, 2004, Kerry very humbly and quietly concedes.

It certainly wouldn't have taken much to send Kerry and family a subtle message prior to his concession.

Yeah, I'd say everyone should get off of Kerry's case. We cannot even speculate as to what his motivations were/are.

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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #54
57. Maybe he conceded to fight from behind the scenes.
Maybe because he knows the evils of the BFEE he is fighting them tooth and nail, we just don't see it to know that it is happening. I think he has more reason to fight than any of us realize and he is a fighter. When ever you are investigating a criminal, it is best to keep the investigation low key, that way they may slip up and boast or leave evidence laying around. If they know you are out for them, they destroy evidence and intimidate and do away with witnesses. I just think folks have to realize that there is so much going on behind the scenes.
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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #57
60. Absolutely agree Merh. How stupid it would be to blab your
findings in real time. You know, like the investigator example you give above can you imagine a PI getting anywhere if everyday they were making announcements to the press about what they found in the last 4 fours and that they'll give an update in another four hours. I mean, it sounds really ridiculous when you think of it like that. Yet, I think that only egocentric egomaniac types who are looking for attention would divulge what they uncover. Kerry is smarter than that and not an egomaniac. He has experience investigating this outfit. I agree, things are going on that I can't see. Kerry has my trust. He'll do the right thing.
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emcguffie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-04 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #54
131. you may have something there
Because, on this other site, tbrnews.org, which is pretty suspicious but way entertaining to me, the "voice from the White House" guy says that Bush and Kerry made a deal beforehand about Kerry conceding if Bush won by a lot, and it had something to do with Kerry's father also having worked in the CIA. But the CIA connection may have been a little bit different than that, and more terrifying too.
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #13
29. Hi Corvid!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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malatesta1137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. I have the right to express my views, excuse me
I WORKED for Kerry and I am VERY disappointed, not to say PISSED at his behavior.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. We all worked for Kerry - you ain't alone. But he has done more
than those others you name as heros. Blame one, blame them all!

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malatesta1137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. no sir
KERRY was the one who ran for President. Don't deflect the blame.

And what exactly is it that he has done MORE than the others?
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Oh really, Edwards was on the ticket, he can claim his win and if
Kerry doesn't think he can serve, then Edwards would be prez. You are the one that included Dean, Clark and Edwards in your post and proclaimed them as leaders. I don't see them leading, have I missed something. NOT A ONE OF THEM HAS TAKEN A STAND on the election fraud. This is not just Kerry/Edwards election, it is ours and every dems election. We were all cheated.
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #20
75. How about this?
I just don't know why we have to lay blame on ANYONE right now, except maybe those responsible for perpetrating the fraud and irregularities in Ohio. I am not attacking you, malatesta1137 - I too am crushed that Shrubco. is still in the White house, but I support waiting to see how this whole thing plays our before I start condemning anyone. You certainly do have a right to express your opinion, but there may be a whole lot going on behind the scenes than what we know about. Being a prosecuting attorney, it's likely any investigations Kerry and his team are doing are being kept on the down-low for legitimate legal reasons. Believe me, I too want to know what the hell is going on, and I get tired of combing the news everyday waiting for a tidbit....

But I have a strange feeling there's a storm brewing and we haven't heard the last of Kerry at all.
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 01:23 AM
Response to Reply #75
94. no, we haven't seen the last of him
in the military I think it is called a "tactical retreat". He's got our backs. If you trusted him to be president, trust him now.
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NVMojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #15
66. is your life on the line against the Bush cabal?
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Yeah, that Dean guy sure has stepped up. Same day as
Edited on Mon Dec-20-04 02:50 PM by merh
Conyers conducts his first forum, directly opposite, Dean gives a speech detailing his "vision for the future of the party" and doesn't even deal with or mention the election fraud. Don't give me the excuse, he had prescheduled the event. If he truly cared, he would have arranged for a large screen to air the CSpan coverage, had a question and answer period, and then told the crowd what "his visions for the party" were. He totally ignored the election fraud. What has he done since all of the investigation began and since the litigation has been filed to show his concerns or his leadership relative to the most important issue facing democracy, election fraud? :shrug:

Don't think I have heard from Clark in a while either. Edwards can claim the election, he was on the ticket, if he has any balls, he would stand up and be heard. Damn Kerry if you like, but damn the others too and don't make them heros. At least Kerry has joined the litigation and has send letters.
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malatesta1137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #12
25. Kerry has sent LETTERS?????
is that his F*CKING best??? What about all those promises? All those 17,000 lawyers? All that BRING IT ON bs?
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. And what have your proclaimed leaders done?
"I hope real Democratic leaders like Dean, Clark, even Edwards will stop the fraud."

Like I said, Edwards was on the ticket, he can fight for his office, if he is a leader as you profess. Dean has only cared to share "his vision of the future of the party" and I don't recall hearing Clark say anything.

Yes, at least Kerry sent letters. Bash one, bash them all. We have no leaders in the party taking a stand besides Conyers.

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malatesta1137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. They were NOT the candidate
KERRY was.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. KERRY/EDWARDS
and they sure wanted to be the candidates during the primary and hope to continue as leaders of the party or candidates in the future!

THIS ELECTION WAS OURS, not just Kerry's - it was all of ours, all dems, all persons that voted for Kerry. IT BELONGS TO ALL OF US.

You just don't get it, do you? Bash one, bash them all.
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malatesta1137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. You are just trying hard to shield Kerry
from his responsibilities and duties but, sorry, you're failing miserably.

Hiding behind the other candidates' skirts won't excuse Kerry's dismally weak behavior on Nov 3
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. I am not shielding him from anything. I am challenging you to be
fair in your ascertions. You claim Dean, Clark and Edwards are the true democratic leaders, yet none of them have done a damn thing regarding election fraud nor have they taken a stand on the issue. It is you that is intent (in just about everyone of your posts) in bashing Kerry, but at least he has entered the litigation and sent letters. The other 3 you name as leaders haven't done a damn thing. What, you can't stand it when some one points out your mistakes? Face it, your interpretation of the leadership qualities of Dean, Edwards and Clark is wrong. Bash one, bash them all, they all deserve it.

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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Kerry stole his girlfriend in high school and he never got over it
don't you know? :shrug:
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. That explains it!
That evil green monster jealousy :puffpiece:
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seito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #36
91. lol
I though Kerry kicked his dog....
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malatesta1137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. instead of challenging me
you should challenge Kerry to fulfill his campaign promises.

He said BRING IT ON. Instead, he caved in less than 12 hours.
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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. We are.
You seem like you are the one that isn't challenging him.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. Just trying to point out that your "true dem leaders" have done
sh*t and remain silent on the election fraud. The election belongs to us, the people. They were our votes, we cast them for our candidates and they were stolen FROM US. We all have an obligation, it is not Kerry's alone.

Think in terms of those of us who objected to the war in Iraq. We knew Suddam was a horrible dictator, but we also knew that it was up the Iraqi people to take him down. It was not morally or legally right for the USA to interfere with their election. This is very similar to what we are facing now. The people that owned the votes and gave them to Kerry have got to stand up for what is right.

ALL MEMBERS OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, ALL, should stand up and fight for our votes and against the election fraud.
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malatesta1137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. if I get my car stolen
and don't even file a police report, why should my friends bother.

get real.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. If your mother gave you the car to use and it is stolen, your mother
reports the theft. Your mother suffered the loss. It is our office, our nation, we are only casting our vote for someone to hold it for 4 years. IT IS OUR PRESIDENCY.
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malatesta1137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #39
51. do you always point out others' failures
when you can't defend your own?

Republicans always do that too, you know, whenever we show them what kind of criminal Bush is, they come back with "What about Clinton?"

Let's leave Dean, Clark and other Dems out of this for now. Let's first address KERRY AND HIS FAILURES REGARDING FRAUD.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #51
62. You seem to! You cannot defend your broad statement
Edited on Mon Dec-20-04 09:55 PM by merh
about the other "the true dem leaders" Clark, Dean, Edwards. That was your statement, you brought them into it and your can't defend you statement so you are turning on me. Go back and read the posts, my comments were in response to your ludricious statement that the "true dem leaders" Clark, Dean and Edwards might fight the fraud. I merely pointed out that they have not taken a stand, they have remained silent on the issue and Dean even had the nerve to speak to his "vision for the future of the party" while Conyers was conducting the first forum on the election fraud issues.

You believe Kerry has failed because he has not given a press conference about the election fraud. You refuse to recognize that his letters and involvement in the litigation reflect that at least he has taken a stand and has been heard from, contrary to the "true dem leaders" you listed. Because he hasn't done what you want him to do, you consider it a failure, yet he has done something. For that matter, you haven't a clue what he is doing behind the scenes or behind closed doors and that to you is a clear sign he is going nothing and is a failure.

When you cannot adequately respond to any of my reasoning, you turn it into an attack on Kerry. Folks that demand to know what Kerry is doing and that believe he is a failure because he is not acting as they deem appropriate have some issues they need to deal with. They want superman to jump out of the phone booth and save them or daddy to stop the bully from picking on them. I have said it before, but it is well worth saying again. THIS IS OUR ELECTION, IT WAS STOLEN FROM US. We cast our vote for the candidate that we want to give the privilege as serving as our leader. No candidate owns the office, thinking they do is thinking like Rove and his puppet, the weed. The office is ours and it is up to us to stand up to the thieves that stole it.
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malatesta1137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #62
76. lol
"They want superman to jump out of the phone booth and save them or daddy to stop the bully from picking on them."

How about Kerry just fulfilling one of his campaign promises? Is this too much to ask from the hero REPORTING FOR DUTY? I'm not expecting Superman, just someone with a backbone, OK?
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #76
79. See, you don't know he hasn't, you just jump to conclusions because
he is not behaving the way you feel would be appropriate. You also fail to acknowledge your blatant mistake in referring to Dean, Clark and Edwards as the only "true dem leaders." As I said, you just resort to attacking Kerry.
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malatesta1137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #79
85. I am not alone attacking Kerry
and he's on the defensive, hiding. His silence speaks volumes.
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seito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #85
89. Know the Enemy
Why would you attack Kerry when there are SO MANY worthy enemies that don't happen to be DEMOCRATS?

Why do you want Kerry on the defensive and hiding?

Why are you proud that you are not the only one?

Sigh...Never Mind :boring:

No Retreat No Surrender
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malatesta1137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #89
105. why would I want him on the defensive?
are you insane? I want him to wake the f*ck up.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 03:35 AM
Response to Reply #85
101. Claiming not to be alone make you more correct?
I see.

Defensive? I see no signs of defensiveness. I see a man going home for Christmas. That's not hiding. That's... going home for Christmas. Bah humbug to you too.

I'm starting to think he's Mr. Cellophane. You could look right through him, walk right by him, and never know he's there. (I tell ya...)

So how many encyclopedias worth of silence have Clark, Edwards and Dean coughed up so far.

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malatesta1137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #101
107. Clark, Edwards and Dean
were not the head of the ticket, Kerry was. It's his responsibility to fight harder. Didn't he say REPORTING FOR DUTY?
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #107
109. I don't need to see him do it
I just need him to do it.

I don't need him to come grandstanding out to make me feel like his fighting.

I just need him to fight.

I don't need a show put on for me. He doesn't have to wave his arms and shout "Look! I'm fighting for you!" He just has to do it.

And as an article I posted here yesterday indicated, even 10 years after the fact, he continues to fight for the people who lost money in the BCCI scandal even though

1) Almost none of his constituents or the potential voters in the 2008 can see what he's doing.

2) None of the people he's helping in England can actually vote for him.

Whereever he is right now (home for Xmas I believe he said) he took the time to make his voice heard against the Bank of England and their inaction in fighting bank fraud. Why would he do a thing like that unless he gave a damn.

With a record like that, I can believe he's doing all he can. I don't need to see it to know he's doing it.

For the record, I don't think he's trying to flip the election. Anyone who's trying to read that into his words may be setting themselves up for a fall. I believe he's doing exactly what he said, which is making sure every vote gets counted. If the fraud gets exposed along the way, and it's bound too, all the better.

He's doing exactly what he said he would. No more, no less.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #85
103. As does the silence of Gore, Clinton, Dean, Clark, Edwards,
et al. IMHO, he isn't hiding, you just would rather perceive it as hiding, but it is not hiding. Shame that you mind is so limited in its ability to comprehend the depth of the intrigue, the breathe of the involvement and the magnitude of all that is involved. Remember how successful Gore was in 2000 when he screamed from the roof tops that the election was stolen?
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malatesta1137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #103
104. Gore lost exactly because
he didn't scream, you are distorting reality.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #104
106. Oh, all of that recount huppla and litigation and the decision
Edited on Tue Dec-21-04 10:41 AM by merh
by the Supremes was done in silence and without Gore's involvement? And you say I am distorting the facts. Gore didn't do what, according to Conyers, is about to happen. The house will petition and a senator will vote.
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malatesta1137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #106
111. go get informed
Edited on Tue Dec-21-04 02:21 PM by malatesta1137
Gore didn't get the mobsters on the Supreme Court involved, Bush did.

Gore should have screamed bloody murder back then, he was too civil. He lost because of 'proper decorum'. But at least he tried. Let's see what Kerry does, Jan 6 is just around the corner.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #111
115. You go get informed, if Gore and his campaign had not called
for recounts in Florida and had not come out against the hanging chads, and if his litigation had not been sucessful in Florida State Court, then the Supremes would not have been brought into the picture. You pretend to be informed, but you are not. I know the facts and apparently you don't. So Gore is allowed to be "too civil", but you have problems with Kerry's quiet involvement. Get a grip on your anger.
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malatesta1137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #115
116. I pity you
so you're saying Gore should have done EVEN LESS than Kerry. You deserve Bush.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #116
117. Are you just ignornant, hard headed or dense?
What I am saying is that it didn't work when Gore raised a ruckus just after the election and demanded vocally before God and every t.v./media camera available that the recount happen. Gore took a stand and it failed, it failed because the repugs got the fix in before the truth could come out. I am saying that tactic didn't work in 2000, maybe a more subtle and focused effort will. You need to improve your comprehension skills.

Stop attacking me. Face it, your logic sucks and your anger at Kerry is misplaced. Put your efforts and your anger to better use.
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malatesta1137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #117
118. you are not using ANY logic
The Bush Organized Crime Family is LAUGHING at 'subtle and focused' efforts from the left, they would LOVE if Kerry hired you as an adviser for his 2008 run.

Furthermore, all signs point to Kerry not making ANY effort whatsoever at this point, let alone a 'subtle and focused' one.

And if you think Gore 'raised a ruckus' after 2000, you and Tom Delay have a lot in common.

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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #118
119. Stop the personal attacks.
Edited on Tue Dec-21-04 08:05 PM by merh
Why are you so intent on your personal attacks. First Kerry and now me. Funny, all signs don't point as you claim, you need glasses and a reality check. I have used logic, plus a working knowledge of our system of government. You are the emotional one, full of anger and unable to respond with logic or intelligence to any of my posts.

You must play checkers. I know you don't play chess, if you did, you would just knock all of the men off of the board or just flip over the board. When you play monopoly and are losing, do you just turn the board over and storm away?

Funny, this all began because you claimed the "true dem leaders" would purse the fraud.
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malatesta1137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #119
123. you were the one using personal attacks
get real.

You see this as a game???? It is NOT a game, pal, the future of the planet is at stake. This nonsense about chess or checkers is everything Rove wants. Before you know it, Jan 6 will come and go, and you and Kerry will still be playing Monopoly.

I stand by my statement about Dean or Clark or even Edwards having acted differently, but again, this is not about them, this is about the man who ran for President, the man who made us believe he was REPORTING FOR DUTY. Where is he?
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #123
126. You will be proven wrong.
Your silly emotion rants are ::boring:
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malatesta1137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #126
127. I'm saving this thread for Jan 6
let's see who is proven wrong then.

And I hope to God that I am.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #127
132. Now that's a good idea! Save the thread --
then you can reflect on all of your negative comments and wonder why you were so busy posting them.

Peace :-)
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #51
64.  You know, I was irritated at Kerry's silence as well
Edited on Mon Dec-20-04 09:59 PM by saracat
but your posts have caused me to come to his defense. The more criticism there is of Kerry the more I realize how much we don't know. You say address Kerry and his failures regarding fraud. What are those failures? His not speaking up when you want him to? His not handling things the way you want? What makes him wrong and you so right? I believe that Kerry has access to more information than any of us has and I believe he is making decisions accordingly. Do you realize that Kerry has never lost a case as a prosecutor? That is quite an achievement . That alone gives me confidence that he knows what he is doing. I don't know what your credentials are but John Kerry's are obvious. I don't think we could find a better prosecutor for our election fraud case. JMHO.
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RevCheesehead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #64
67. Amen, saracat. n/t
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seito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #64
69. saracrat, I am really inspired by your post
I have read your posts in the past, and I know you have always had healthy skepticism. I have maintained that we don't have all the facts, and it really does not do any good to sit around and critique Kerry or anyone else for what they may or may not be doing.

We need to stop publicly trashing people for the sake of trashing them. If you have criticism for someone write to them, talk to them, fax them, e-mail them, petition them. Write to your representatives in congress, write to the media, and get out and protest.

The bottom line is Kerry, as much as you love him or hate him is not the enemy. We must keep our eye on the ball because the enemy is UNITED. They are fewer in number but they are UNITED. Until we can stand together, we will be rolled asunder.

Keep the Faith

No Retreat No Surrender

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malatesta1137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #64
73. your coming to his defense
doesn't impress me. I want to see KERRY coming to his defense, it's about time, isn't it?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #73
74. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Laurab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #73
87. Would it impress you if -
Kerry had refused to concede without any viable evidence of fraud, and was made a laughingstock/sore loser/idiotic looking fool? Are you at all aware of what the right wing spin machine is capable of? Don't you think it's a little odd that he (as well as ALL of the people you named) has been completely silent about the election fraud issue? It doesn't appear to be in his nature to sit back and do nothing, but he does appear to act intelligently, rather than rashly. If he is to be effective at all, there has to be evidence. Not accusations, actual evidence. Edwards, Dean, etc., are normally quite outspoken, but there has been not a peep out of them - at least publicly. It seems quite odd to me. I'm quite sure they are aware that many people feel the way you do, so don't you think there would be SOME public statement?

I choose to give the man I voted for the benefit of the doubt. The more I've thought about it, the more I've understood how foolish he would have been made to look, had he attempted to question the election with no real reason to. A huge part of the public is still not even aware that there is ANY question about the validity of the election. As we on this board know, the evidence is growing everyday. I think it's only a matter of time before this silence on the part of the candidates, and their party, is broken. And when it is, all hell will break loose. I believe when they are armed with facts and undeniable evidence, they will act. When you are fighting thieves and thugs who are above the law, you have to play hardball, and you have to have your i's dotted and t's crossed - several times over. And you're STILL going to get attacked, but armed with facts, you've got a hell of a lot better chance of winning. Give the guy a break - he's dealing with criminals of the highest order.
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malatesta1137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #87
90. let's see what Kerry does or doesn't do
on or before Jan 6. You realize we are just 2 weeks away, and evidence of fraud ABOUNDS.

So far only the Greens and Nader have shown a backbone.
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #90
93. didn't we agree on that
about 3 weeks ago?
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #64
95. I'd be willing to bet that
Edited on Tue Dec-21-04 01:31 AM by ginnyinWI
John Kerry knows tons more than any of us do about what is and has been going on, and is much more intelligent than we are. I already know he is smarter than I am, and I graduated from college with honors.
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seito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #25
58. Bring it on?????
I think you are confused. lol!!!!!

Know the Enemy

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NVMojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #25
68. How many people died in 9-11?? Where is your fecking outrage??
that has never been solved and is actually of much more importance then some of the crap you all are bickering over. Get focused. We are at an internal war here for the soul of this country and it is not an easy fight.
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Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 02:16 AM
Response to Reply #12
98. Hey, may I remind you
Edited on Tue Dec-21-04 02:17 AM by Carolab
that this was Edwards' and Kerry's election?

NOT Dean's, not Clark's, not anyone's but THEIRS.

I am QUITE sure that had Dean been asked not to give his speech at the same time he would have obliged them.

By the way, his speech was NOT on C-Span.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #98
108. It helps if you read the entire post
Edited on Tue Dec-21-04 11:44 AM by merh
If he truly cared, he would have arranged for a large screen to air the CSpan coverage, had a question and answer period, and then told the crowd what "his visions for the party" were. He totally ignored the election fraud. What has he done since all of the investigation began and since the litigation has been filed to show his concerns or his leadership relative to the most important issue facing democracy, election fraud?

IT WAS OUR ELECTION - Dean wants to be a leader of the party, then lead now. Kerry was not being appointed to an office, he was elected to be OUR leader, it was not his office, it is our office.

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lthuedk Donating Member (551 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. Lets focus on 2004/5 and not the far less than certain future.
This party is over, literally, should the leadership squander the only opportunity to out, prosecute, AND overturn this election. The fascists don't compromise and neither will we. They will lose.

Right, Kerry? Right Party leaders?
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #9
70. You know, up until 2000, conceeding was normal
Normally 12 would be a long time. But compared to a month, I guess it was short.

I haven't heard any fraud talk from Dean, Edwards or Clark. Or even talk from them of election reform.

He will fight, as he has fought for veterans, even if half of the people he's fighting for hate him. As in the Iran/Contra story, he will fight even if it damages him. As in the recent BCCI story, he will fight even if no one is looking who can vote for him in 2008.

If he was louder about what he IS doing: adding himself to lawsuits and giving money to recounts, THEN you might say he's campaigning. "LOOK AT ME. I'M FIGHTING FOR YOU." As it is, there aren't even enough fraud people as a voting block to worry about. The fact that he's doing ANYTHING, unlike Clark, or Dean, or Edwards, is proof to me that it isn't political. He has no political justification for helping at all. We wouldn't even hear a peep. We've had peeps.

And now it looks like the Washington recount should go our way. And Kerry was a goodly chunk of that victory if it happens, to the tune of 250,000. Once again, no real reason to do this, even if he was being pressured. Electing the Dem in Washington wasn't going to do boo for him. He could have turned his back, and most of the country wouldn't even know it happened. Little damage to him politically would have insued despite rumblings of "I'll never vote for him again" here. We ain't the base.

It is enough for me.
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 01:39 AM
Response to Reply #70
96. amen, Little Clarkie! n/t
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seito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 01:49 AM
Response to Reply #70
97. There you go again
Little Clarkie speaking truth and backing it up with facts.

hmmmmm......

We can't have that here. I want to know when you are going to give us some baseless allegations and gratuitous flame bait (sarcasm off)
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
52. Afganistan sound familiar....poppies make oz look barron
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seito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
59. My oh my we are getting TESTY in this thread
KNOW YOUR ENEMY...and don't misunderestimate him.

Last I looked it wasn't John Kerry, call me crazy :eyes:

No Retreat No Surrender
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RevCheesehead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
61. The Media hasn't changed much, has it?
"Kerry did a fairly good investigation that was published in a report in 1989, but throughout this, the Washington Press Corps, the Washington Times, L.A. Times denigrated the story. The Reagan-Bush stories denied them by and large and that's where the story was left. Kerry was ridiculed for being a conspiracy theorist for following the leads."

Rather than covering the story, the MSM became a part of the coverup. Despite congressional hearings, not much came of the Iran-Contra affair, because so many people simply didn't believe it.

And who was at the center of that scandal? Poppy Bush and Roger Ailes. Roger knew that "he who controls the media, wins."

So if Kerry is lying low, he has good reason to.
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seito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. I will second that Rev
Repeat after me...The Media Is Not Your Friend

Know the Enemy.

No Retreat No Surrender
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RevCheesehead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #63
65. The Media Is Not Your Friend. Know the Enemy.
And certain disengenuous flame-throwers are not my friend, either. This is a damn fine post, and it's being ruined (deliberately?) by name-calling.

FOCUS, PEOPLE, FOCUS!
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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
71. Kerry may be being smart, but sometimes I wonder
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #71
72. lol
must be just a typo :shrug:
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bush_is_wacko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #72
78. Have some of you forgotten that Kerry "accidentally" let slip
a VERY derogatory comment about *, on the campaign trail? I believe Tereza also let one slip. Kerry and his wife have an awful lot of greif and anger to deal with over * and * Sr's criminal activities. Combine those slips with the several people Kerry and Tereza knew during the Iran-contra era that are no longer living because of their involvement; Then add to that, all Kerry did during Watergate and Vietnam, behind the scenes and in public, that really could have jeopardized his career and, in fact, to some extent, did in the past election and maybe you'll come to the conclusion that Kerry IS the type of man that would risk a four year stint in the White House to restore his friends and our country's good names. He is also the type of man that would wait patiently for all the pieces to fall into place so that he could be assured of a CRIMINAL conviction for the person or persons he KNOWS are GUILTY AS SIN!

Maybe some of you should take some time to re-read what Kerry has done for this country. I'm a little impatient too, but I really do think he is doing his part. He always has in the past, why do you think that would change now?
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seito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #78
80. OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I love the way you think :yourock:

BTW, There is a John Kerry Group for anyone seeking refuge from the fray....
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bush_is_wacko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #80
82. Really...
Do you have a link? Honestly, I'm not upset by what people are saying. I just think maybe people are frustrated as heck. Some days even I am, but really Kerry has ALWAYS known how corrupt this family is. He WILL out them and I fear he may be targeted for a lot more than character assasination! I am worried about him and I'm sure a lot of our Senators and Congressmen are feeling a little paranoid right now too.
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seito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #82
83. Here ya go
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bush_is_wacko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #83
86. Thanks n/t
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #82
84. i'm afraid for him too
for the same thingss you just said that i don't wish to repeat :(
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RevCheesehead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 01:02 AM
Response to Reply #80
88. And I'll second that!
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 02:51 AM
Response to Reply #78
100. Amen, brother (or sister) n/t
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Withywindle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 04:34 AM
Response to Reply #78
102. I agree, and...
...It's likely crossed his mind that Teresa shouldn't have had to go through that once in her life, no one should...

can you imagine if it happened TWICE?


:scared:
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bush_is_wacko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #102
122. I think that is why they will make
sure they have enough evidence before they act. I don't think either Teresa or Kerry are the kind to back down from a fight, but I do think they are smart enough to realize they will be targeted by the likes of Cheney, Rummy, Rove, and Bush and whatever thugs they have protecting them.
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Melissa G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
77. Kickin for Gary Webb and others who were accidented!
Focus is good. I hope we hold every Dem leaders feet to the fire on this Election fraud issue. Any time I communicate with DNC, DFA, Kerry campaign or any one else I can think of. I ask them politely but strongly, paraphased...WHAT THE F**** is going on that we are not focused on the election FRAWD issue. Democracy is at stake!

I figure at some point enough of us will do this where they may just get a clue. Keep Planting Seeds of Truth wherever you go and Truth will out!
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bush_is_wacko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #77
110. Kick for Terza Heinz Kerry , John Kerry/Edwards, AND allthe accidented and
suicided!
:kick: again
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
113. what if...
I were to suggest that the "nature of the beast" Kerry and the dems are dealing with are ruthless and lack any moral integrity... let's not give up on him because he is unable to share (at this time) his reasoning and motives behind his behavior. It's odd- to say the least. SO...I believe that there are many layers to peel through to get to the "heart of the corruption"! I'm hoping Kerry emerges from this as a true patriot who endured endless "jabs" for the good of his country ultimately will prove his allegiance to his people and his party! Go figure...:toast:
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
114. I sent him a letter the other day...
Mr. Kerry,
I teach high school and I was hoping to give a
different perspective re: the 2004 election fraud. I
love what I do. My students are indeed the future of
this country and it concerns me when they express
cynical and jaded views regarding the direction of our
political system. These young adults see things
fairly black and white because they have not had the
life experiences that often taint our beliefs as we
grow older. Therefore, I find it critically
imperative that these young adults have a moral
compass and role models that embrace honor, integrity
and courage. They are watching us closely right now
and it becomes increasingly difficult to explain that
corruption hasn't infected everything throughout this
country. How can we expect them to "do the right
thing" for their generation if we are unwilling to
model ethical behavior from our own? Mr. Kerry- you
have a unique opportunity to LEAD these young adults
by your EXAMPLE! I realize this task will not be an
easy one. You have displayed courage and leadership
throughout your lifetime by drawing strength from your
convictions...we need you now more than ever before!
Please trust that the 60 million people who share in
your values will be behind you in this fight. There
is so much at stake. The future of our country
depends on it! Your leadership and passion for
integrity will ignite a flame of promise for these
young adults...good CAN triumph over evil! I hope you
will continue to challenge the authenticity of the 2004
election regardless of the outcome. Fighting for the
integrity of our democracy can only be a winning
proposition! Thank you.

:dem: I gotta believe!!!
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GetTheRightVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #114
120. I pray for all those *s have harmed, killed, or damaged ....

We need to get rid of the likes of that whole family in politics forever.
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bush_is_wacko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #114
121. Great letter foob and
Thanks from a mother of one of those HS students that is lucky enough to have many teachers like you around her. Those of us that work w/ kids seem to be coming together in increasing numbers! It is very encouraging!
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #121
124. thanks BIW...
I just believe we owe the next generation better...PEACE- and have a great holiday!!
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seito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #114
125. Thanks for sharing that incredible letter
"Your leadership and passion for integrity will ignite a flame of promise for these young adults...good CAN triumph over evil!"

I teach also. I left corporate America to go where I can hope to make a difference.

Good WILL Triumph

No Retreat No surrender
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #125
129. Right on!!
Glad to connect with a fellow educator...keep the faith!!!!!

"I don't want to represent humanity as it is, but only as it might be."

A. Camus:hi:
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bunny planet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #114
128. That's a great letter. Thank you for sending it and posting it here.
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